Sun, Nov 22, 2009
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: I agree that drug abuse is a problem prevented by not starting to begin with - having worked in a drug treatment facility, I totally co-sign that opinion. But, I also know from what I've seen that the disease not mentioned in many and most cases is mental illness. Most drug addicts are self-medicating a mental illness with illegal substances. It doesn't matter their socio-economic status. They are mentally ill, unhappy to the point of being suicidal and harming themselves and slowly killing themselves with chemicals. Bobby Brown said himself that he is bipolar and self-medicates with weed. The pressures of being a superstar as Whitney became can lead to mental illness and to sychophants around you who enable your drug use as long as they're being paid enough. If anything, with all she has materially, I feel sorry for Whitney and people like her because she is in a sad world that is coming down around her. As a decent human being, though I neither condone nor applaud drug abuse, nor am I really a fan of hers, I at least try to have some sympathy for her and keep her in my prayers. I would expect the same from you, Mr. O'Kelly. The common statement made in drug treatment is that drug addicts either end up dead, incarcerated, or in treatment. Let's be glad Whitney opted for the latter and keep her lifted up.
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: I don't have much sympathy for people who put themselves in situations like Whitney did. She was -- repeat WAS -- a phenomenally talented woman and she purposely gave it all up for drugs. Life wasted, talents wasted, and her precious daughter, whom I really like, is bearing the brunt of the burden. She has to live in a world where BOTH her parents are jokes, sad and pathetic jokes, and she can't really do anything about it. Drugs, just like alcohol and cheating, are CHOICES you make. Not something forced on you. I do pray for her complete recovery. Still, I miss who she used to be. That talented woman is dead and the only one to blame is Whitney. Morris, I ain't mad atcha for telling the truth.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, you have the right to your opinion it's your column, but there is an entire medical community to classifies drug addiction as a disease whether self inflicted or not
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: ps) I have a tape of Whitney performing at the American Music Awards some 13 years ago. In it, she sings a song from Porgy & Bess, then "I'm Telling You I'm Not Going" from Dreamgirls, and finally, "I Have Nothing If I Don't Have You" from The Bodyguard. Even today, watching that performance brings me to my feet with tears streaming. But for different reasons. Then, it touched my soul how a woman could be so talented that she can sing an R&B song, but make me feel like I'm shouting in church. NOW, it just makes me sad that that talented woman is dead, and the person who killed her, was herself. No one else. And for that, I have prayers for her recovery, but no sympathy for anyone but Bobbi Christina.
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Name:
JusSaying
Comment: Morris... YOU'RE A GENIUS.
How many of us have sat around with our friends and talked about some stuff that had you rolling? You try to tell people what was so funny the next day but you can never get it straight?? Thanks to you I have some of the funniest stuff that I can print and send and repeat to errbody so they can just ROLL!!! I was still rolling off the Micheal article!!! Hate to steal Jamie Foster's line but this is indeed "Straight With No Chaser" Agree or disagree everybody.. it's still funny as....
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Name:
Taerae444
Comment: I agree with Morris, I don't feel sorry for anyone but Bobbi Christina. And the people that are standing around enabling her should be ashamed of herself. Disease or not, she is not a victim and we need to stop acting like she is. If she was Pookie from the corner, everyone would agree that he/she needs to get off that ish and get a job. Well the same goes for crack head Whitney!
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Name:
Taerae444
Comment: "should be ashamed of themselves"
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Name:
Taerae444
Comment: And treatment, yeah right! Whitney is not trying to receive treatment. She has a triple drug habit and has "opted" to deal with the addiction in outpatient programs-WTF?!?!? IMO Someone threatened her and she felt that this would suffice to get them off her back. It didn't work last time so why would she think it will work this time.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Trying to rehab time can be your worst enemy and Whitney obviously has loads of it on her hands. Otherwise she'd get herself into a real treatment center and take it seriously and wholeheartedly work the program. I pray that she gets clean and comes back badder than ever, but if she doesn't 'Be Still', it's not going to happen.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: To Priceless: I would disagree that there is an ENTIRE medical community that sees addiction as a 'disease.' That still is a hotly debated topic. And regardless, I still have a problem generating compassion in situations like these.
Parallel:
We all know that if we jump off a building, gravity is going to take us straight to the ground. We know this to be true. I think of drug addiction in the same way. They jump off and although the ride down seems 'cool' eventually they hit the ground. But we all knew from moment one what happens if you jump off that building. The result never changes. I wonder if people would have the SAME level of sympathy for the random crack head. Why is our level of sympathy attached to the amount of fame someone has or the number of #1 hits? Someone's talent in one area doesn't in any way have a bearing on level of sympathy for self-damning actions. They are separated and distinct.
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Name:
KTHOMAS
Comment: AMEN...AMEN...AMEN
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, uummm eeerrr I don't remember mentioning anything about sympathy in my post .... I said addiction is a disease and I don't know who is still debating this so hotly when there are numerous rehabilitation centers ..... rehabilitation to me means that you are working on recovering from an illness
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Priceless...not all of the comment was meant specifically for you, I should have been more specific.
I believe that 'rehabilitation' and recovering from an illness might be semantic in nature.
Once again, we're talking about levels of responsibility here.
And yes, the idea of addiction being a 'disease' is still being debated. The number of rehabilitation centers only speaks to the need for people to stop using drugs, not necessarily that people are inherently 'sick' for using drugs.
If I went out and got myself hooked on crack tomorrow (which is possible given its highly addictive qualities) I wouldn't classify myself as 'sick' or suffering from a disease. I'd classify myself as an addict.
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Name:
Kofi
Comment: So Morris,
Lets dig up all the mean things you may have said to someone. Lets highlight any unsavory and/or illegal acts you may have committed and publicize them. We can all sit back in our self righousness and point at Morris O'Kelly's flawed character. Then we can see how helpful that would be to you. My point is the soapbox serves no one. It doesn't educate or enlighten us on a very serious issue that has impacted all black folks in this country on some level. Yes, Whitney should definitely be held accountable for her actions period. The fact that Whitney would engage in compulsive behavior that threatens to destroy not only her but those around her is problematic. This is a sign of mental illness (not to mention there may be other underlying causes such as depression to go with it. Most of us know of someone who squandered enormous talent to drugs and/or alcohol. You have a forum that reaches 100's of people yet you offer no new insights only judgment. I am by no means a fan of Whitney or Bobby but I would not exploit anothers pain. At least Whitney did recognize there is a problem and took action. No new insights or understanding. Exploiting anothers pain. Ignorance and judgment. Morris what makes you any different than the other vultures?
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Name:
QueenCityBee
Comment: Excuses..excuses..I'm in totally agreement with Morris that's all I will say because I know I have beat the shyt out of this topic already.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, so are alcoholics not sick? eerrr chemical dependency is an illness but regardless I'm all for peeps cleaning up their act ... I hope she stays in and gets her shat straight for her and her child's sake
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: To answer you Kofi:
The 'new' insight should be accountability. The 'new' insight is understanding that her 'illness' and use that word loosely had been common knowledge for more than a decade.
My 'flawed character' is nothing akin to illegal drug behavior. You can't even compare the two. I've never been arrested, never used drugs, etc.
The insight is Whitney has long benefitted from this deviant behavior and now we're supposed to sympathize with her 'plight'.
No, Whitney did NOT recognize the problem. That's a press spin. You don't say publicly that Whitney was 'taken'. Everybody checks in on their own...supposedly. You can't MAKE anyone go.
What you and everyone else should understand is that far too long we've been 'sympathetic' to criminal behavior...simply because they are superstars. Whitney was on TV admitting to criminal behavior and drug abuse but she gets credit for 'checking herself in' 3 years later?
What makes me different...? I'm not going to applaud someone doing what they're supposed to do. You don't get 'credit' for putting the pipe down. You get credit for not picking it up at all. Let's have some higher standards. Yes, everybody deserves second chances, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be accountable.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Priceless, I think you use the word 'sick' in too cavalier a manner. Everything starts with the decision to start in the first place. And I'd even make the distinction between alcoholics and drug addicts, simply because alcohol is legal and drugs are not. Once again it's about choices. You have to go above and beyond to use drugs. You have to go out of your way to maintain a drug habit in terms of narcotics.
I mean this in complete sincerity. If I ever get hooked on drugs, admonish me for starting in the first place. But don't applaud me for 'seeking' treatment. Applaud those who never did at all.
Everybody's a victim these days. Nobody is ever responsible. If we're an addict, we're 'sick.' If we're a criminal, it's our upbringing.
If you start using drugs, you will become addicted...PERIOD. How about just not using them at all? That way, nobody ever catches THAT 'disease.'
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Here's a question for you Kofi...
And I'm asking this question in all seriousness.
Does a mass murderer, serial rapist or some type of sexual deviant on an illegal level (and they're obviously is suffering from an underlying mental illness) get 'credit' for checking themselves in to a rehab center? Do we applaud them for trying to allegedly straighten themselves out...even though they've admitted this illegal behavior on TV in the years previous? They've been arrested for the behavior in previous years...do we applaud them for checking themselves in?
Probably not...and that's my point. Those people are 'sick' too by the 'illness' definition, but ultimately the behavior is criminal in nature. Somehow we've lost sight of the fact that the behavior in this case is CRIMINAL. It is illegal to buy, use or sell controlled substances...regardless of your superstar status. Whitney has been arrested (AND GOT OFF) because of WHO she is.
How about if a rapist or murderer got off because of who they were...and then checked themselves in for 'treatment'?
Sorry, not having it. You don't get credit for just trying to stop illegal behavior.
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Name:
Molefi
Comment: Morris, I want to go one deeper. As one who has smoked 'free base' I know in my heart that 'crack' was made for us. It, 'cocaine' was too expensive for the low income community. Coke was high brow all the way. I remember only 'pimps and serious hustlers' had access to it. Then came the drug wars in Florida. Cocaine was so cheap and plentiful that you could stand on the street corner and bargain for the lowest price. Next came bottled 'crack'. Now they had brand names on the vials so you knew you had good product. (Sounds kinda Madison Ave.) Guess where all this took place. Right again. Remember when they stopped suburban NJ boys at the GW bridge? They didn't want them in Harlem. That stuff was made for the 'undead'. BTW I got out of the loop more than 25 years ago. First thing we have to do is get 'Madison Ave' out of the neighbor. I hear rappers still advertising the madness of drugs like it's done us well. Let's get rid of the advertisement. Then we can beat the 'dis-ease'. I'm not saying get rid of rap but 'pimping ho's and selling poison is not rap. I think it's Madison Ave.
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Name:
loversforlife
Comment: Whats funny? Whitney was back last year at the World Music Awards singing "I Will Always Love You" looking and SOUNDING great! I have full confidence that she is going to make it through this, but bringing up old quotes like "crack is whack" is not making it any better.
Bobbi Kris will be fine because she has the love of a strong family, especially Cissy and Carol Brown.
Whitney Houston is still one of the best singers we still have. This is one gal we can't afford to loose.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, I can applaud those who never did drugs also, but anyone that has made a poor choice, paid for it and are taking corrective actions I give them credit ... just like I'd give you credit for going to anger management courses *snicker* it's all good ... BUT AGAIN I AM NOT SYMPATHIZING OR MAKING EXCUSES FOR PEOPLE ... I just give them credit for cleaning up their act ... people who choose to smoke, get addicted and get lung disease I guess fall into this same category for you *shrugging shoulders*
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Name:
JamerDelta
Comment: Morris, I've learned in my short years on this earth to never judge another until and unless I have walked in their shoes. Since we can never do that, then I try my best never to judge, and if I do (since I am human and it does happen) I apologize re%*$ess and move on. All I'm saying is that its always easy to say what you would and wouldn't do in life --the best we all can do is thank God and be grateful that we haven't gone down that road and have compassion for others who for whatever reason couldn't be strong enough to let certain things pass by. Compassion not excuses. Its not excuses, its just reality...there but for the grace of God, Morris, there but for the grace of God.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I think we'll have to disagree as to whether I'm standing in 'judgment' of her...with the exception of her being an addict...which can't be argued at this point.
My problem is also that this 'compassion' we talk about is often only reserved for those with 'incredible talent' and not for the lay individual.
I've never said I'd 'never' do drugs. I've said I've never want your sympathy or compassion if I should become addicted because of choices I've made.
The point nobody has seemed to address is the fact that this behavior by Whitney, she's continually benefitted from and received preferential treatment.
She should've gotten treatment after the arrest in 2000, should've gotten treatment after the interview in 2002. Should've stayed in treatment in 2004.
And people still want my compassion in 2005 when such behavior lands her and her husband a TV show? A little tougher love might have sent her to rehab far sooner.
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: Quickly, I'm not the man's mother, so I won't outright defend him...he can write what he wants to write. I will say this. Whitney Houston WAS a phenomenal talent. She no longer is. The reason is drugs. Drugs she voluntarily took. They have destroyed her family, her life, her career and made her a joke. It will have untold repercussions on her daughter. By writing this article, I don't consider Mr. O'Kelly to be a "vulture". Instead, I see him as basically ripping the rose-colored glasses off the face of people who ARE CONTRIBUTING TO WHITNEY'S DEMISE by acting like she just "has a disease" or "has a bit of trouble". Whitney Houston Is A Drug Addict! And perhaps by writing this article, Mr. O'Kelly has shined a light on it to folk who otherwise would keep making excuses for her, which then gives her reason NOT to quit the destructive behavior. We must pray. But we must also stop enabling her by acting like it isn't happening. Mr. O'Kelly's article goes a long way in helping stop the destructive force and I'm thankful for it. All said in love, Lolly. :o) Goodnight. And if you have never watched HOUSE, please do so. That show is AMAZING!!! :o)
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Thank you Lolly. I think you understand where I was coming from. I had nothing to 'gain' by ripping Whitney. But there is a definite double-standard once again as to what we deem as 'acceptable' by those with superstar talent (at one time) and those without it.
I promise you, the rest of us are going to jail if we're caught with 3 half-smoked joints at the airport. She's been shown 'compassion' by the courts. She's been given repeated chances to get back on career track. That's 'compassion' by the record companies (read: greed). She's been given a TV show...that's 'compassion.'
But I'm the vulture?
Ok, I can live with that. The woman should've been in rehab more than 5 years ago. There's 'compassion' and then there's just stupidity.
If/when she gets out and has another relapse and gets another record deal and another TV show somehow indirectly linked to the behavior...more compassion then?
Mark my words, she will come out of rehab, she will drop and album (almost on cue)...she will make dozens of appearances in which she will be paid and the cycle starts all over again.
Please see my article on "The Superstar Curve"
http://eurweb.com/story.cfm?id=18399
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: To Priceless: My grandfather smoked religiously, and died of emphesyma (sp?). But he was the FIRST to say...I made my choice. His words..."It wasn't like the doctor didn't tell me, or wife didn't tell me...I knew."
So yeah, the lung cancer thing rings hollow for me. We live in an age in which we 'know'. I'm still trying to get my brother-n-law to stop smoking.
With all the 'Truth' ads we have out, all the information on the end result of smoking...how could we NOT know? How could we EVER start?
Choices...
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Name:
Kofi
Comment: Unless any of you on this board has walked that walk or witnessed the slow motion destruction drugs have on individuals families and communities, you don't know shyt. What rational individual would choose to intentionally fcuk up their lives and the lives of family? Whitney has taken some steps in what will be a life long struggle. She may indeed fail time and time again but it takes monumental courage to keep getting back up to engage in the struggle. Whitney could very easily go down as just another talented singer who got strung out and faded from view or died of an overdose. WHITNEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HER ACTIONS!!! Her circle insulated her and made addiction all the more easier. Her recovery will be exponentially more difficult because her failures will be very public. As humans the most difficult things to do is learning to walk and talk. Breaking an addiction is more difficult that either of them simply because that underlying shyt that made you take drugs in the first place will come back with a vengence. You gotta take life straight with no chaser. As an addict your shyt is out front for everybody to see. You have to work through it. It is infinitely painful but on the other side there is a self awareness that most non-addicted people never acheive. Let us not forget that drugs are only illegal simply because someone says they are. In terms of destruction alcohol kill far more people than all the illegal drugs combined. 70% of all drug users are white but yet black people end up going to jail. As most people should know that reality shows such as "House" are anything but reality. My point is this long post is that compassion is not about Whitney. It is about us. It is about our humanity. Let us not get it twisted. WHITNEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HER ACTIONS!! If she does some criminal shyt she should go to jail like the rest of us. All Im saying is folks let us show some compassion. It aint about Whitney. It is about us being better people.
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Name:
JamerDelta
Comment: Amen, Kofi, Amen.
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Name:
justmythoughts
Comment: To Morris: "You don't get 'credit' for putting the pipe down. You get credit for not picking it up at all. Let's have some higher standards." I say Amen to that. This man has the right to be up front and honest about what he feels are the issues. Will somebody please tell why compassion and spitting truth have to be mutually exclusive. Yes, Whitney's problem is not just a drug problem but also some deeper personal struggle. I can appreciate this but I can also appreciate that she has had more resources available to her then most people and she CHOOSES to continue to be an addict. OK, maybe it is not a rational choice, maybe it is a choice made out of fear, maybe it is the easier choice. Bottomline, it is a choice and we all must deal with the consequences of our choices. I agree with Morris, it is time for us to adopt higher standards and stand accountable for our actions. This pertains not only to drug addiction but also to Diabetes, High Blood pressure,Kidney disease and other preventable diseases that we just accept because "it runs in the family"!!!! Well DAMN...how many family members do you have to see destroyed by drug use or diabetes, etc. before we start to take responsibility. Please..at this rate because of denial,neglect and lack of accountability we will have killed more Blacks then any previous Slave owner could have dreamed of killing. I can't believe that after all our Ancestor sacrified that we could do this to ourselves. Please...before you get started about why the drugs, alcohol are so excessable in our community,, answer this. If you know the game, why do you fall for it?
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Name:
justmythoughts
Comment: Sorry, I meant accessible.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I think this is a great discussion, truly. I HAVE seen people smoke their life away from beginning to end. I've had people very close to me addict themselves and slowly have their lives and family slip away (to Kofi).
We talk about 'compassion' but in terms of the strict definition...
"Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it."
The point of contention in this debate is whether WHITNEY is the suffering party in question. Those who believe Whitney is truly suffering, then there is compassion available for her, so it seems.
I don't see HER as suffering. I see the people AROUND her suffering. She never went to jail, she has not LOST anything. She still has her record deal, her TV show, her %*$ets, etc.
Where exactly has Whitney 'suffered' in this. My point was that she has YET to suffer. She has been so insulated, there has been no suffering.
Talk to me about compassion when Whitney has 'lost' something in this situation.
Self-respect? Never had any. Career? She'll have an album drop as soon as she gets out and interviews to boot. What exactly am I supposed to be compassionate about?
But the lay individual probably has lost EVERYTHING...job, family, relationship...etc. There's a distinct difference.
When Whitney suffers, then we can have a discussion about 'compassion'. We can't even be sure she'll stay beyond five days or make an honest attempt at recovery.
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Name:
StarFaze
Comment: So what's your point?? This post could of been made when she did the Sawyer interview. Other then mentioning that she just re-entered rehab, what does this article do??? Your bascially just saying common-sense stuff. Oh and by the way, I'm a Whitney fan. I love her voice. I love listening to her music.
I'm more disappointed in her wasting her life and talent of drugs. Just like you, I'd never touch drugs with a ten foot pole. Whitney is no different from the crack head on the street. Girlfriend is playing with fire, yet her fans still hope for the best.I not one of those fans who would go to an concert(unless it's paid for) or pass out if Whitney was within ten feet of me. But, I do enjoy her voice and music. Get Well Whitney
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Name:
DoctorSmooth
Comment: I think some of you are giving Morris a hard time for no good reason. The article is not “judgmental”. I think one insight we can get from this is how Whitney’s addiction has been enabled by the public and media in particular. It was an openly known “secret” that Whitney had a drug problem, but the media looked the other way for years…because she was Whitney. When she got busted for marijuana, the justice system gave her a slap on the wrist, even though the weed was an indicator of what we all knew to be a deeper problem. Her TV interviews showed her to be a mess, but there was no real public outcry, even though she had a young daughter in a house where the parents both used drugs. If this was “Shamika” from the ‘hood, and her husband both using drugs, the Bureau of Child Welfare would have taken their kid away in a heartbeat to protect the child from that environment, but when the world knew Whitney and Bobby were using drugs why wasn’t Bobbi Christina taken away? Again, special treatment because she was THE Whitney Houston. Society looked at it as more of a topic to gossip and whisper about, rather than have Whitney treated like the criminal she was, and rather than treat her daughter as a child whose welfare was being endangered by living with drug-addicted parents. THAT is the real shame in all this.
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Name:
TJthemilitant
Comment: Drug addiction "IS NOT" a disease. It is a self inflicted illness. A disease is something that you can pretty much pass on to another person. I can't recall ever hearing anyone catching "CRACK HEADITIS" from another person! It takes will power to get yourself off drugs and even more will power to stay away from it once you're released from it's hold!
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: It seems to me that the biggest issue people have with Whitney is that she hasn't suffered by the standards "normal people" would suffer for the same problem. So because she hasn't been on her knees in a crackhouse to score a hit we're supposed to not have compassion for her? Because she lives in a big house we're supposed to be like "oh well"? It sounds like people are jealous of her wealth and are almost glad she has fallen from so high a place because she has had such material success. Keep things in perspective. She is in a co-dependent, physically abusive relationship, her father died suing her, her career is in the toilet, people mock her when her name comes up and she has smoked her voice away. How far down must Whitney sink before you all have any compassion for her - as a human being??? When she's dead of an overdose like Billie Holliday or dies from cancer like Mary Wells will you all have some compassion? Again, I am not really a fan of hers but watching her with Diane Sawyer 2 years ago filled me with pity for her. I really don't understand why people are so harsh. Whether addiction is a disease or not is not the issue here. The issue is that she and her family are under attack. The devil sends things like this to break people down and it's working. All of this negativity is just what the devil wants. What she and others like her need are prayers not criticism and not scorn. If you have ever seen the battle an addict goes through to do the 12 steps and keep to the "one day at a time" as I have when I interned in a program for addicts you might be a little easier on them. At least I hope you all would.
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: Morris, first off, Whitney was caught in Hawaii with the marijuana. You are entitled to your opinion but I think you were very harsh about Whitney and Bobby's drug addiction. You mean to tell me, no one in your family has never succumbed to substance abuse? We've all made some bad choices, so much more worse than others but when you point your finger at one person, look how many are pointing back at you. Nobody knows why Whitney got hooked on drugs, but she's still a child of God and EVERYBODY falls short, but there is still room at the Cross!!!
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: TJ, can you pass cancer, lupus, or parkinson's disease to someone else? WTF?! ... Morris, btw, Joe Shmoe hitting the pipe gets compassion from those that know him ... we give compassion to entertainers cuz after watching, admiring and following their career people have the feeling of knowing them .... NO WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW THEM ... but we know nothing of Joe ... as for your lack of compassion for someone dying of cancer/lung/smoking related diseases .... uuummm let's just say that you are not the most compassionate person in any situation
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Name:
najab
Comment: One would never know what caused her to start on the drugs in the first place, but let us all pray that she gets the help she needs, and come back better than before, because i believe in miracles, and God is in control.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: No, I didn't say that I'm uncompassionate about cancer/smoking/lung...I said that I'm for accountability. I used my grandfather as an example of accountability.
But you are right Priceless...we have WAY too much compassion for entertainers yet seem to run out for ordinary people. That was the point of the article. A woman who has escaped jail, retains her career and family intact and has lost nothing other than 'career longevity' has not 'suffered'...but we have people jumping up and down saying I should be 'compassionate.'
She was shown compassion at the airport and in the courtroom. She has been shown compassion by not having her daughter taken away. She has been shown compassion by being given a TV show. I mean, DAMN...and you (as a group) think she deserves MORE compassion?
I've yet to hear anyone explain how she has SUFFERED, relative to the definition of compassion:
"Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it."
I'm deeply aware that she hasn't suffered. What exactly is this 'suffering' that I'd want to relieve? Should she have gotten 2 TV shows instead of one? Should she have only been forced to stay in rehab 3 days instead of 5? What is this 'suffering' that I'm wishing to 'relieve' through compassion. Somebody please answer that for me.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, she's been shown priviledge in those cases not compassion
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: Well Morris, good thing God is the judge and not you!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Privilege/compassion...semantics. She was given a free pass. But the question still remains...what has she lost.
And no, I've not judged her. Just because I think she should've been accountable at the airport and has shown zero contrition...doesn't mean I'm judging her (other than calling her an addict...which even she now admits).
I'm not saying she should fail, or should be scorned or be mistreated in any way. I'm saying she should be accountable and know that she's been given many free passes that the lay individual would not.
To 'judge' her is to impose sentence on her or decree what is to be for her. I've offered nothing of the kind. I'm not saying she's a bad person...just that she's an addict who's been given superstar treatment for far too long.
Her behavior has been criminal (not opinion but fact) and now it's time to pay the piper.
Judgment? Hardly.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: If I was to 'judge' I would've offered my thoughts publicly on the time her publicist tried to confiscate everyone's cameras at a Grammy rehearsal because Whitney was OBVIOUSLY not in her right mind and there was to be no public record of it.
If I was to 'judge' I would've offered my thoughts publicly on the time in which she, Bobby (and I) were at the Playboy mansion for an event and she was stumbling around, obviously high on drugs and alcohol...yet singing hymms and spirituals in the parking lot, acting a fool.
Yet, I did not and intentionally left it out.
'Judging'...girl please. You have no idea what I know and simply left it at 'she's an addict.'
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Name:
Kofi
Comment: Morris,
So you say that Whitney hasn't really suffered enough. True, she still has her house and generally gets a pass from society for her transgressions. Let me let you in on a little secret. Every addict who has every walked the planet knows first hand that HELL REALLY EXIST. It is not some abstract place with fire and brimstone. It exist in our heads. In this place the monsters are real. Sometimes the pain is so unbearable that it takes every ounce of your humanity to not end your very existance rather than face this for another minute. Imagine if you will a vicious cycle in which the pain is so unbearable that you take drugs to dull the pain only to have those same drugs intensify the same pain. At least Joe Schmo will suffer in relative anynomimity. In Whitney's case there are a thousand forums just like this judging her and saying what a bad mother and person she is. She can't afford to listen to it for one second because as most addicts know she could be hanging on by a thread. Those voices out there are more than enough to push her over the edge. Unlike most of us, when Whitney walks outside the vultures are circling. She has to smile because the cameras are clicking even though you are slowly dying inside. Whitney has to smile when she knows her shyt is raggedy and everybody knows it. In those quiet moments when the fans and sycophants are gone, Whitney has to face Whitney and that can't be pretty. To top it all off, this shyt is self inflicted!!! My point is that we view addiction as a disease and afford it the compassion for anyone suffering from a disease or we call it a moral failing and treat people accordingly. The problem with the morality argument is we all have that potential moral failing. Our addictions may be more socially acceptable be it shopping, sex, food, money, etc but they are no less destructive. Trust me on this one Morris, Whitney is suffering. No one on any forum anywhere beats up on Whitney worse than Whitney.
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: Just so you know, since certain folk don't appear to ever watch television or walk pass a tv guide, HOUSE is NOT a "reality show". It is a medical drama on FOX (channel 5 in DC area) and deals with medical mystery type issues. Omar Epps is on the show. As for Whitney and the drugs, you can say that it is a disease till you are blue in the face, but as a Cancer survivor, I can tell you, being a DRUG ADDICT is NOT a disease. So, at least be real with that while you fantasize about Whitney not being responsible for her own actions. It isn't easy being in the public eye when going through things like that. No one would deny it. And I don't believe anyone has the right to be all up in your bidniz. Still, you have a CHOICE to do Right in the public eye or do Wrong in the public eye. So if you CHOOSE to do something foul, deal with the consequences! Just don't pick the pipe up! It really isn't that hard to NOT try drugs or NOT drink too much or NOT sex everything that crosses your path. Particularly for a woman like Whitney who was raised in a Christian household, by Cissy Houston! So Whitney KNOWS the Word of God and still, look what she did. What SHE did. Cause it ain't Bobby's fault. I know it's popular to blame him, but this is her. He has his own problems, but I doubt very seriously that he ever forced her to become Miss. Crack-O'Da-Wurl.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: That's the most compelling argument I've heard yet. I will concede a lot of your points.
But...
I think it remains to be seen whether 'Whitney' sees what you says she sees. And I think that will be answered when she comes out of rehab. It will be answered 'how' she comes out of rehab.
I'm not looking for Whitney to grovel or beg for forgiveness...believe you me.
But I really don't want to see the same Whitney, whatsoever. I do agree that 'hell' is relative and defined by the minds in which we have to live with. Can't agree with you more.
But...
There is still something to be said for the price she HASN'T had to pay for her transgressions and that's still (IMO) relevant to this discussion. I think that lack of price to pay in other facets of life may affect whether Whitney ACTUALLY changes or is headed back to rehab in another year. One impacts the other I would submit.
It's like the kid who keeps wrecking their car and the parent who keeps buying a brand new one on cue. Does the child ever appreciate or understand the value of each car? Probably not. But if/when it is truly taken away...lesson learned.
Has the lesson been learned in this instance? If so...then we can take the conversation in a different direction.
Very good commentary Kofi, I can not lie.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Let's be real. "Being Bobby Brown" isn't a real good show idea unless you have people 'ackin' a fool' on the show. His life has been built around and upon major drama. A TV show is meant to capture that. A TV show surrounding Bobby Brown means nothing if there isn't a Whitney ackin' a fool right along with him.
But like I always said...'hits' cure everything. If Whitney has a hit when she gets out (she has an album scheduled to be released) then you should be more balanced behavior from her. But if she doesn't...
"Superstar Curve"
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: That's just it Morris, I don't know what you know but what I do know is that God offers peace to the weary soul and Whitney is very weary. I've seen first hand on how God can change the worst of the worst crack addict's life to where one would never believe that person was hooked on any kind of drug. In my opinion, you are being very judgmental. If she is a drug addict and she does fail her in recovery, how will that hinder "your" life? So what if they've let her slide, it doesn't affect any of us. All we can do if lift her and her family up in prayer and I'm sure out of all the people praying for her, one of those prayers will be heard. I'm not a big fan of Whitney or Bobby but I do know, God can do anything but fail. Min Farrakhan said once, every black family in America has been effected by crack cocaine. Your Editorials are always so harsh and mean spirited. Its as though you are so pure and perfect and the minute a poster doesn't agree with you, you seem like you'd give your last breath to convince them your right! Its all of matter of opinions and this is simply mine. I don't know you and hold no ill feelings towards you, but geez lighten up!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: No...I can't 'lighten' up. Part of 'why' I write is because it's my duty to bring light to issues less often talked about and bring discussion to ideas not readily considered.
And no, my editorials are NOT always harsh and mean-spirited...you obviously haven't acquainted yourself with the body of my work.
I do have a SERIOUS problem with criminal behavior, drug use and how that disproportionately impacts the African-American community.
There is no in-between for me. You concede that every Black family has been affected by crack...but seemingly only 'we' have this level of 'tolerance' for it.
I'm not here to say whether Whitney is saved, is on the path to salvation or anything of the like. I'm saying, she's gotten a free pass up until this point.
I have ZERO ill feelings towards Whitney the person, but don't at the same time tell me she has been held accountable. My overwhelming point in all of my pieces has been accountability. I'm not commenting on her spiritual direction, for I do not know that. I'm not commenting on her morals because I do not know them. I do know she is an addict and drugs have been the bane of the African-American community.
And yes, I'd give my last breath to rid my people of drugs, you can believe that. We as a people make concessions that no other culture does.
Yes, it's a matter of opinion. But since you want to make biblical references, know also this:
Render Caesar what is do Caesar...
She has a civic responsibility that she has avoided due to her celebrity status. That's just a fact, not opinion.
I'm not pure, perfect and I always invite debate and discussion. Name one other writer you can even have discourse with on this site!
But I can also say, I'm not a drug addict and do not participate in illegal activity on any level. The moment the majority of 'us' feel the same way, the moment significant change is upon us.
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: Alright, hold up a sec, Stephanie. Again, I ain't the man's momma, but to say Mr. O'Kelly's editorials "are always so harsh and mean spirited" shows you N-E-V-E-R read his stuff. Because in fact, even when he gets real with subjects, it's still in a comedic fashion. Ole boy can give Chris Rock a run for his money! I've been reading the columns on EUR for almost 2 years now, and had you said that about Darryl James, I couldn't argue with you (I like his writing, but he can be a bit mean with Black Women). But not Mr. O'Kelly! His stuff is vibrant, fun, and more importantly TRUTHFUL!!! So, say what you want, but at least be honest in this camp. That was pitiful. Sincerely, Not The Man's Mother :o)
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Name:
SpelmanRho
Comment: >Steph: I hear what you're saying about God and all but after Jesus saved the woman caught in the act of adultry from being stoned he said "Go and sin no more". Jesus was compassionate in that he let others know that her sin was no worse than anyone else's but he also made it a point to offer her correction for her actions. Same thing with the woman at the well. After she told him she had no husband, he told her "You've answered correctly. You've had three husbands and the man you live with now is not your husband either." He saw her humanity but didn't sugar coat her sin.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Wow...well said SpelmanRho...I can't offer anything more. And you have been on opposite ends of debates with me so I know you're not playing favorites or just a 'fan' of what I write.
Thank you Lolly, but don't call me "Mr. O'Kelly"...that's my dad. Call me Morris. The only people who need to call me that are my students in martial arts because it's expected. Other than that...it's 'Morris'. We're all family here, regardless of whether we agree.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, that's way more than semantics or I would get all caught up in you throwing that definition around every time someone says that feel compassion for her ... I think what everyone is saying is that they are pulling for her to get her life together for her sake and her family's ... also that it's sad to see one of the greatest R&B/Pop female vocalist of our generation loose that talent ... raw talent that has entertained millions ... face it ... she has touched more lives than Pookie so she just gets it .... get over it
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, Lolly call every body Mr. or Miss *snicker* even if you the same age
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Get over it?
Uh...the only person that needs to 'get over anything' is Whitney and her drug abuse problems.
Maybe Ike would've beat Tina a little less often if he didn't use as many drugs. Maybe Jimi Hendrix would still be here. Maybe Chaka Khan would've reached the heights in her career that she should've reached if she didn't do drugs. Maybe James Brown would've stayed out of jail a bit more often. Maybe Billy Preston would've stayed out of jail a bit more often. Maybe Ray Charles...
Should I go on.
Don't act as if Whitney is the first. This is a tired song, how about we realize the words to this song. It's a different singer, different generation, same path.
I'm not saying I'm not pulling for her. I'm saying it's time to be accountable and stop spin-doctoring the situation.
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: Here's a monumentous occasion, so mark it down cause it's a first for me.... [drumroll please] Hello ... Morris! :o) Price, you know me well already! It's hard to call someone by just the first name. You can take the girl out of Little Rock, Arkansas, but... etc. :o)
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: Well, it's the end O'Da Day, so I'm splitting. I'd like to pretend I have serious lawyerly things to do, but for real, America's Next Top Model comes on tonight, so I gotta run put my high heels on so I can strut up and down the bedroom hallway during commercials. AWE DON'T ACT LIKE Y'ALL DON'T DO IT TOO! :o) hahaha
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Name:
dejonjhclark
Comment: Has anyone picked up on any of what really matters in this thing? Lets just look at what is going on in a wider view here. Not only is Whitney not being held accountable for her drug deeds. She like other SO CALLED black entertainment super star roll models are being used to further perpetuate the lie of how out of control black people are even when they don’t live in the ghetto. The lie is that the majority of us are doing the right thing but you can’t tell that by the media’s point of view. That to me is a bigger problem then worrying about poor Whitney’s struggle to kick a habit she started. Or that she married an idiot who only adds to the overall lie we as a people have to bare because we put these useless people on pedestals. We have to stop this madness of idealizing entertainers who don’t give a flying crap about you or the fact that your children are watching and copying them and their lifestyles. Hey, they already have one other crack head named Flava Flav out there making a buffoon out of himself on a TV show. Now they have a black crack head female to match. Wake up folks and smell the coffee. Start holding these people accountable for their actions. Don’t give them one pass just cause they can sing well. Turn your back on them until they show themselves worthy of our compassion, as we should give them when they start caring about their own selves. God never saved any fools from their own follies. He lets them decide they need to clean up their acts before he steps in and gives them compassion and help…It is called tuff love…Morris is right and he is just putting the responsibility in the hands of who it belongs to. Whitney and any other fool how takes drugs willingly when they like most of us should have sense enough to get the proper help for their problems and not to forget the money they have plenty of to pay for it unlike the majority of us who just use good God given judgment…
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Name:
dejonjhclark
Comment: I need to correct something I wrote when I wrote: "The lie is that the majority of us are doing the right thing but you can’t tell that by the media’s point of view." I wanted to say The lie is that the media would have one think that most of us are living like irresponsible people when the fact is that most of us have just as much or even better judgment and or morals about ourselves then other groups they always seem to compare us too. But like I said you couldn’t tell the real facts and truth by the daily news when it comes to watching our communities and people being talked about on the news. Stop supporting these deadbeat people just because they can sing and dance. Make them accountable for what they do to themselves. No rewards. Just tuff love… Ya herd?
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Name:
JusSaying
Comment: OKAY OKAY OKAY!!! Ughhh!!! The horse is dead !! Yall beat him to death!! Elvis ( another drug addict!!) has left the building! A man (Morris)wrote a story. He wrote what he felt he didn't make any bones about it. Didn't make us read it didn't ask us to like it. It is what it is. Sixty comments later (which keep getting loonger and loonger) We are back at the beginning " Whitney Houston is "back" in re-hab." If the man had said he had a problem with the color Blue, there would be 50 comments ranging from not appreciating the gift of sight to discrimination against the sky because of it's color. WE and I said "We" don't know how to let things go. Don't know when to put our boots on in the winter or when to take them off in the spring. Christmas lights in March? seen that too. It is what it is. A man's thoughts put on paper.
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Name:
JusSaying
Comment: By the way Morris I kinda appreciate you taking the time to try to explain something that you do not have to explain. That in itself shows strength of character in my opinion ( of course 10 people will probably comment other wise later.) As in my first comment, I repeat, that article was just funny to me and "You do what you do so that It is what it is!!!
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Name:
TJthemilitant
Comment: A Disease is something you can "PRETTY MUCH" pass on to another person(read my sh*t first). Drug addiction is not a disease! Whitney is a crack head/formerR&b pop princess..plain and simple, she blew it!
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Name:
Secret
Comment: Morris why did you write this article? It disturbs me that you think that you have a right to pass judgment on this woman. I mean who are you? You sound so hateful and spiteful in your efforts at comedy (I guess) but this is not a laughing matter. You have no idea what Whitney is going through, you are a very nasty person for writing what you have written about Whitney thus far and there is no justification for writing this article other than to be nasty. I bet you thank God everyday for making you so perfect. I'm trying to figure out what makes you better then the rappers you berate on a daily basis. I guess as long as you didn't call her b i t c h you feel it's alright to talk about her.
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Name:
Secret
Comment: MY god you people are amazing. Whitney doesn't know any of you fools who continue to pass judgment on her. Why in the hell are you all so concerned with her life? Whitney’s not hurting you she is hurting herself but that's not enough for you negro's huh ya'll want to take the knife and twist it around a bit so that you know she is really suffering . *News flash*
s h i t happens in life. Better hope nothing ever happens to you.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: okay different artist, same story .... so what is really the point of this article? you skirted me calling you on this being more than semantics ... you have expressed your disdain for her and anybody like her while some have compassion for them ... if you don't fine ... keep it moving
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: TJ, like I said you can't give somebody cancer either, duh! so is it not a disease? reading is so fundamental
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Name:
Secret
Comment: Well he should have written his thoughts in his diary if he didn't want anyone to comment on it. Your right “it is what it is” and this is a forum where we state our opinions on this man's writing.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: lmao@Secret ... well said
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Name:
Secret
Comment: Thank you Priceless.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Very succintly...
The article was about bringing light to the fact that far too many of us begin our comments of 'support' with 'She's such a great singer or artist'...we've lost sight of the real issues here. Her talent or career have nothing to do with the nature of the problem here...other than perpetuating it.
I can't 'write' this story any OTHER time because in media it has to be 'relevant' and timely. If she goes into rehab 4 months ago...it runs 4 months ago.
Again, not passing judgment on her...but I'm not backing down from the FACT that she's an addict and that is not to be celebrated or uplifted in any way.
The scourge of drug use has no place in our communities, regardless of who is CHOOSING to use them.
As for the debate about 'diseases'...there are both communicable and uncommunacable diseases...of which drug dependence is neither in my estimation.
Your 'compassion' and outpouring of 'support' would've been better served YEARS ago when much of this could've been avoided. But since she was still making hits it was 'ok' for those close to her and fans at large.
This was no 'secret'...but now she's gone to rehab...oh woe is her?
Whatever. Whatever. Here's an extreme example for all of you. How about I slay 12 people and then check in to rehab to straighten myself out. We'll see how much 'compassion' I get then. You guys are being hypocritical in the way you pass out 'compassion' and that is my point. Stop making exceptions and excuses for those who sell records.
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Name:
Secret
Comment: Morris you can not justify this little nasty article of yours no matter how you try to slice it. Bottom-line this is none of your business anyway. I dole out compassion when ever I see fit. While I don't condone drug use I have compassion for human beings in general. Since when is it your job to tell people whom they can feel compassion for? I think you were dead wrong for writing this article it's just plain nasty. I have compassion for Whitney and her family because they are human beings going thru hard times it doesn't matter that she is a singer. You assume that, that's the reason we show compassion for her. Your analogy is so off base who in the hell has Whitney killed? NO one!!! Murdering someone and being addict to drugs are two totally different things. I don’t know what you call it but it sounds like your judging her and anyone who feels compassion for her. I ask you once again why do YOU feel that it is your responsibility to tell folks how they should feel about Whitney???
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, we are not being hypocrical at all ... first off, not many of us knew that Whitney was a drug addict back when she was churning out hits ... if you knew bully for you ... if you knew why didn't you bust up in her mansion and tell her to stop? ... I'm not getting from the compassion posts that anyone supports her decision to throw her life away or ruin her family ... we are simply wishing the woman well and not making harsh statements cuz we all in some glass houses on one issue or another ... whether it is a legal thing or illegal thing ... the debate over disease can persist, but the government is treating our soilders for drug addiction at the VA Hospital so I'm gon stick to my belief that it is a disease and you can continue to call it a short coming or human flaw ... tell me something though ... did you have compassion for Terri Shaivo?
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Name:
JusSaying
Comment: See what I mean?? Secret you have just proven my point!! He nor I never said he didn't want any comments about his story AND WHO ARE YOU to pass judgements on Morris? "You are a very nasty person..." where you get that from? Because he wrote an article YOU should throw stones right? Check yourself YOU JUST JUDGED HIM FOR JUDGING SOMEONE ELSE!!( and he wasn't judging her by the way!To judge comes from a point of opinion. Man just stated some facts!) You don't know Whitney either so why is it your responsibility to defend her to the point of calling someone" a nasty person?" For shame for shame. As for the "Well Said" endorsement, we will co-sign anyone won't we? Why don't both Priceless and Secret pay a couple of bucks and get their own website so they can talk back and forth all day. By the way I didn't pass any judgements.
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Name:
Secret
Comment: HE IS a nasty person for writing this article. Who is he helping? NO one he's just shyting on a person who is down. That's a fact, not judging. Listen dude/chick no one asked you to come on here if you don't like the fact that folks are going to express themselves you need to log off.
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Name:
Taerae444
Comment: Like I said before, no one would be defending Whitney this hard if she was Pookie from around the corner. It's funny how people with $$$ gets free passes from molesting kids to drug addiction. Whitney is a crack head/drug addict plain and simple.
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Name:
Secret
Comment: I'm sure most of the judgmental folks on here would not have sympathy for Pookie, but I do that's why I can sympathize with Whitney, now if she was a child molester she would get no sympathy from me, just like Michael Jackson doesn't. No one is disputing that she's a drug addict. Why are you mad at her for it, she's done nothing to you??
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I'm a 'nasty' person...but 'Secret' is NOT being 'judgmental'?
Interesting.
Michael Jackson the 'accused' child molester (not admitted or convicted) gets no sympathy from you, but Whitney the admitted drug addict does?
Contradictions... I think you need more consistency in your doling out of sympathy or your hypothetical 'non-judgmental' stance.
Secret, you have just contradicted yourself up and down the street. And no, I'm not offended by any commentary. I in fact encourage it...as always.
As far as who I'm 'helping'...it's about providing a viewpoint less often heard and more rarely discussed...as always.
You don't have to agree, or even like it.
And point of clarification, I'm not 'mad' at Whitney for being a drug addict. I'm elucidating the fact that this problem started with her, fostered by those close to her and NOW...NOW it's considered 'tragic' that she's admitted herself to rehab?
The POINT of the article was that if it were so 'tragic' it would have been done or faciliated a long time ago...because we ALL knew.
There is dispute as to whether Michael is a child molester (I believe he is)...but you have no sympathy for him. There is no dispute that Whitney is an addict and has made a mockery of her life, career and family but you have sympathy for her.
You are a walking contradiction.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I'm trying to respond to everyone's comments here...
And yes, I had great compassion for Terry Sciavo. I have great compassion and sympathy for those who suffer through no fault or choice of their own. I have great compassion for our soldiers who risk/give their lives because of circumstances not really of their own.
As for treating 'drug addicts' at a VA hospital, you're confusing some facts. Drug addiction is by all means a 'medical condition' and all such conditions are treated in a hospital of some sort.
I went to the hospital because I injured my back...but that doesn't make my injury a disease. There are physiological aspects of drug dependency that must be handled by doctors...but that doesn't in any way validate your point. ALL soldiers get treated for EVERYTHING at the VA hospital...hence why it's called the VA (Veterans Administration) hospital.
And no, my analogy is not WAY off base (murdering vs. drug addiction)...for the reason that we all have those things which we feel compassion for and do not feel compassion for...which is my point.
A murderer is 'mentally ill' to continue the disease discussion. It just so happens the outward manifestation of the illness was murder. But he/she is still 'sick'. And my point was, if that person went to 'rehab' would you ALSO be compassionate. You obviously would not be. I think that's a contradiction. Also, because I draw the line at drugs (as you do murder) doesn't make me a 'nasty' or 'judgmental'...it makes me clear on where the line is for me...in terms of compassion.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And 'Secret'...I'd be far more 'open' to your insults if you at least had the gumption to reveal your name. Anybody can throw stones 'from across the street'...at least when I do (as some have termed it) I sign my name to it and stand by it.
But it's all good. I'll be right here next week and will stand behind what I write then too.
Something to think about...a person of innocent mind acts accordingly. That which we 'hide' we must obviously be ashamed of, or are seeking to avoid exposure for what/who we are.
So I ask you this question...'who' are you?
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Name:
Secret
Comment: You're entitled to your opinion of me Contradiction I don't think so. I was talking about drug addiction another poster brought up child molesting. You seem to think that folks only have sympathy for Whitney because she can sing, I just pointed out that my compassion has nothing to do with whether a person has talent or not. Anyone who hurts a child in anyway gets no sympathy from me I don't give a damn if they where Michael Jackson or the Pope. You seem to think that what you think matters (consistency on doling out compassion). NO sir I choose who I have compassion for and who I don’t, not YOU or anyone for that matter. You’re not providing a viewpoint for anyone but yourself. This is a woman private situation your opinion on it means squat.
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Name:
Secret
Comment: LMAO@ Morris you want to know my real name. It's Debra.
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Name:
Secret
Comment: I'll be here next week too God willing and I will continue to say what I feel just like you.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Good...I'm all for it. It's about discourse...be it in agreement or disagreement.
Nice to 'meet' you Debra. :)
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Name:
Secret
Comment: The pleasures all mine Mr. OKelly
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Justsaying, why don't you STFU ... I don't need my own web site as long as a free one exist to express my dayum opinion
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: HEY, HEY!!!!
Both of you...go to your rooms! And don't come out until you've both calmed down!
:)
Have a good weekend everyone. I'll be back on Tuesday, be safe in the meantime.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, Terry Schiavo was in her veggie state because SHE starved herself and her heart couldn't take it ... it was self inflicted so do you still have compassion for this woman?
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, okay I'll try to be good, but it is Friday *snicker*
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Um...I understand that, but from what I understand there were also allegations of physical abuse of an extreme nature leading up to that point.
There are also allegations of denial of rehabilitation to her as well. So I believe that she was under extreme circumstances leading up to that point. I'm not of the opinion she was just some person not happy with herself in the mirror and decided to starve herself out of narcissism.
Which was at the heart of this debate...whether the husband didn't somehow DIRECTLY impact this situation. So I can't say for sure that this was 'her' doing per se. The coma, some had argued was a result of his abuse and was at the heart of the debate. So it depends on how you approach what the truth is in her case. I hope that better answers your question.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Morris, this woman was a known bulemic (sp) there is no proof that her husband physcially abused her and I never even heard the rumor ... her parents would have turned on him long before some lawsuit money dispute if that had been the case ... she has the same disease that many women in this country have and did something detrimental to her health ... just as drug addicts do ... that narcissism that you speak of is prevelent in this country ... aren't you in LA? I know you gots to see women heading off to purge after every meal in restaurants out there *smirk*
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: Y'all crazy for continuing this conversation. Ole girl need help and is getting a free pass only because she's famous, so let it die if you can't be nice to each other. Now, to more important issues. Does anyone else watch America's Next Top Model? I was glad Noelle got the boot, but for real, no matter how much "potential" you have, if you can't take a decent pic, then you can NOT be a top model. So Lluvy should have gotten the boot. Your thoughts? haha (Mr. Morris, you may not care much for this topic. haha).
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: Oops! Sorry, I mean "Morris". I forgot I was tryna use folk actual names without the formal moniker. :o)
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: ps: Just for the record, regarding Schiavo, there was no abuse. Basically, the parents want control of a trust of money that they could only get if they were appointed guardians of their daughter. As long as she was still legally married to the husband, that couldn't happen, which meant he retained control over the monies. The desperate attempts to keep Terri in the vegetative state were done, not out of love for her (because it was well documented that their attitudes contributed to her bulimia when she was a teenager), but were done out of legal necessity. With the feeding tubes removed, Terri's death meant the husband forever retained control over the foundation and all monies. If they successfully lobbied the courts to have the tubes replaced, they would then have been set up to be named Ad Litem guardians, which would have given them dominion over the monies and foundation. Think of it in human terms: If you are a real parent (I am one), you would never want your child to "not" live as Terri was. They tried to usurp the husband's rights and vilified him in the press for one reason and one reason only... MONEY. And that is sad. (legal advice over. now let's talk about modeling!)
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Lolly, why are you talking about America's Next Top Model under this thread? *snicker*
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: Cause I have ZERO sense and am bored silly waiting for a meeting to start, so I keep typing away! OK, I admit it, I'm trifling. (and I like the show). haha lol! *putting heels on again*
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Name:
justmythoughts
Comment: Ok People, sorry to bring this back to Whitney but I will make it short but sweet. I think that we forget that there is a very thin line between feeling compassion for someone and becoming and ENABLER. Unfortunatley, by becoming an enabler one can allow the situation to get WAY out of hand. Sadly, I think this is what happened to Whitney with regards to friends and family around her. I think that both Kofi and dejonjhclark make valued points however to Kofi I would like to say that although I understand the struggle of an Addict at some point in that person's life it was a choice to use drugs. Granted it could have been horrible circumstances or not, but it was still a choice. For me, I remember well the LEN BIAS story. Although I was not a drug user then, I certainly wasn't after that. That should have been a awake up call for many people, but I guess we will always have those people that think it won't happen to them. Regarding "dejonjhclark" comments' as long as we continue to give undyingly support to these people, we give the media license to promote these types of images. How many of you continute to by R. Kelly's music after you all saw the video, I know you did, and he was charged. Again, that is you showing an artist that it is Ok to not be accountable. As for MorrisOKelly's article, again I say, he is entitled to his opinion. I don't see where he ever stated or implyed that he didn't have compassion. Bottomline, it wasn't the issue of the article. Basically, how long are you suppose to feel compassion or have understanding of a persons situation? Whitney has had more than enough time to get it together. She hasn't wanted to and is only now in Rehab because it was court ordered. Again, not her choice. If you really want to have compassion, go find someone out on the streets with whom you can be compassinate and do something meaningful for them. It is easy to be compassinate to a megastar.
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Name:
Lolly
Comment: AMEN!! Great points all throughout. Have a wonderful weekend everyone and please remember to turn your clocks forward. Spring forward (Fall back). :o)
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Name:
Willetta
Comment: A final word on Whitney: Richard Pryor said it best more than 20 years ago --- Whitney is the victim of a junky's worst nightmare...a monkey on her back & enough money to keep him happy!
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Name:
wordonthestreet
Comment: As much as I hate to laugh, what he wrote is funny as hell but I do have to say that I'm just tired of everybody blaming Bobby for Whitney's dimise. Bobby did not turn her out, if anything it was the other way around. Whitney got high BEFORE she met and married Bobby. Is he without flaws, no but he's not solely responsible for her decision to do drugs. Until each of them and all other drug users of the world decides to make the choice themselves, drug use will remain.
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Name:
justmythoughts
Comment: Well damn Willetta, I think that you said it all. Or should I said Richard broke it down.
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