Sun, Nov 22, 2009
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Name:
nativehoustonian
Comment: It appears that this person does not like Tyler Perry. I have not seen anything negative from him on Hustle & Flow. Did it not show black men in an ugly light? The only thing I have to say is, if you do not like the man, don't go to see his movies. Or is this to get people to be curious enough to his movie that is coming out this month? Who know... I like Tyler Perry's movies and if we don't take to laugh, we age. Just my thoughts.
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Name:
MrsPhoenix
Comment: native, DJ's point is WHY do we consider a Black man in drag FUNNY?
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: It's a good article from a 'manly' mans point of view. I never wondered what men thought of Tyler Perry's character Madea but this certainly says men in the aforementioned category aren't too happy about Madea or Big Mamma! As a woman I can agree that the buffoonery displayed by Martin Lawrences character, for me, just goes too far. Madea is a more believable character even if it is a man which. Nativehoustonian Darryl didn't miss a beat writing about H&F you can check the archives - he is nothing if not consistent.
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Name:
DCGG
Comment: Thank you Darryl James!!! - I've been saying this same thing repeatedly to shouts of Hater, or there's a spiritual message, or at least he's making money but at what cost? Where are the fanatical Tyler Perry fans that promote a man in drag, smoking weed, totin a gun and drinking a 40 oz?? For the life of me I cannot find the humor in this at all.
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Name:
ChakaTee
Comment: Thanks for the article Darryl. I was wondering when someone would address this trend. I first became concerned with this one time when I attempted to go to a spa (someone paid for it for me), and there were men there! I was like WTF! I agree with your comment: "Yesterday’s father would beat Junior for dressing that way and for wearing makeup".
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Name:
DCGG
Comment: What really annoys me with Tyler Perry is that he kills me throwing in an a-men or some gospel music to appeal to them church going folks - the same folks that will castigate a man or woman that self identifies as gay or bi...
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: I haven't figured Tyler Perry out, really. He comes across as a professional victim - "I was abused as a child, feel sorry for me and make me rich" and so that supposedly gives him credibility w/black women. So then he does this character and he thinks he's sending a positive social message but his character carries a gun and smokes an illegal substance. He, and apparently many others, think that is funny. I have never thought a role model-like character should do negative stuff like smoke weed. And I agree with whoever said that it is complete hypocrisy that he throws in God and church messages in the midst of this character's illegal, very un-Christian activity. And black folk eat it all up. I think what I have figured out is that Tyler Perry is a businessman. He is not artist. He is about making money and right now, he is the biggest pimp out there because he's pimping everyone - even Oprah supports him because of his "woe is me" childhood stuff cuz his daddy used to beat his butt. He was probably trying to beat the gay out of him...just my opinion...
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Name:
MsKim20019
Comment: Good article Darryl! I don't totally agree with you but I do believe Mr. Perry is walking a fine line between sending positive social messages and the actual message that is transmitted to society about black people. Although Oprah is a big supporter of Tyler Perry, she told a story on her show about when she went to South Africa to Nelson Mandela's house and someone greeted her and her security team by saying "Hello My Niggaz". It happened twice and the 2nd time someone pulled this person to the side and let him know that this was not cool and nor a respectable way to greet Black Americans. The person who greeted them in this way thought that that was acceptable because of the images the hip-hop culture (especially rap videos) emmits WORLDWIDE. People think we like to be called niggaz, %*$!(es and hoes because that is what they see. Although I am entertained by Tyler Perry as well as other movies and videoes, I understand that that is NOT who are as a people. And I agree that these images may be doing us a major disservice.
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Name:
MsKim20019
Comment: One more thing --- Thanks Darryl for expanding my vocabulary this week! I had to look up at least 5 words in the dictionary from your article today.
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Name:
Closet_Nerd_Girl
Comment: Very thought-provoking article Darryl. MsKim- I cosign yor post. We must be very careful how we portray ourselves in media because for some people, worldwide as you pointed out, what they see in the media is the only concept of black Americans that they have.
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Name:
jazzfan
Comment: Mr. James,
I have often wondered myself why so many entertainers have to demasculinze themselves like this, I agree with your piece. Since we know that the 'mainstream' controls what messages get widely disseminated in the media, I tend to believe that this is an attempt to get young Black males to think that being effeminate is OK, just like a lot of the rap that gets out there seems to say that ignorance and mindless materialism is OK.
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Name:
DCGG
Comment: MsKim - it's so true - I was in Europe London to be exact a few months back and I had a white european cab driver politely ask me where was my bling bling like Puff Daddy - now here in America I would have been highly offended but this is the imagine that people have of us worldwide - I even went to Germany and had another white european tell me that I was very articulate - again had I been in America I would have went through the roof but we have to be more concerned about our image worldwide and I believe that hip hop considering it's universal appeal has got to do better!
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Name:
GoldenLady
Comment: Very thought provoking. I never thought about 'Madea' and how a man would view it. My fiance' hates it and I just thought it was b/c he didn't think it was funny. I didn't know why. Maybe he feels the same. The only work I've seen of Tyler Perry's as "Diary..." and the image I found most disgusting was the sad, pitiful, hopeless woman that Kim Elise played crawling on the floor, crying and crawling after a man who rejected her. I enjoyed the movie overall and I laughed, but I didn't really focus on Tyler Perry playing a woman. This article made me think about it. I own on DVD the 1st Big Momma's House, but he went in as an undercover police officer, who even at the beginning of the movie was disguised as a Korean man. I don't think there is anything wrong w/ a man going to the spa either (as I read in a post). Massages are good for all, however, I can see the point of this article and I will think more about seeing further movies like these b/c of the image of Blacks (men and women) that are portrayed. The negativity in rap music and videos is blatant. I guess this was a bit more subtle for me.
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Name:
SweetieDarlin
Comment: Darryl, this was a very interesting artcile and actually very brave considering the Madea lovers LOL!! But I know that's not really the point and you have given us true food for thought and validated others people's questions. I admit I've only seen Tyler Perry's plays and thought Madea was way over the top---the movies from what I have been told have good themes but again, why do we need a man in drag? Is it the treacle for the message for the message to slide on down or something more indidious? I often wondered why it was a funny for any man to be in drag, even back to the days when Milton Berle did it (I thought maybe it was 50s humor and kinda like you had to be there) but bringing your thought in make you really think.
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Name:
wordonthestreet
Comment: Let the church say Amen!
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Name:
Onyx
Comment: I think Tyler Perry is doing more good with his movies than bad. His movies have a strong message about love and self-respect. Madea is just a vehicle to deliver his message in a way that can be received readily and he does it through comedy. I do not believe that Tyler Perry is trying to sabotage the image of the Black male. Most of the Rap music and some of the hip hop culture that glorifies ignorance is much more harmful than any Tyler Perry movie. But, anything that Darryl James thinks will help the Black man be a better Black man then I'm all for it. However, Tyler Perry gets a pass from me because I hear and see his positive messages and images as being more important than his being dressed as a woman for comedic effect.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: I understand the racial and social contexts behind DJ's message however-I don't agree with the significance of a man playing in drag. Yes, whites will green light anything Black that is perceived as less threatening--or that promotes stereotypes---->BUT a man dressed as a woman also crosses racial lines-as SweetieDarlin has already pointed out. I think the drag thing for comedic effect has more to do with society's perception of what a man is allowed to do or not do... A straight man is not allowed to cry on screen unless his mother is being killed in front of him, a straight man is not allowed to stay home and raise his kids-as opposed to working outside the home, etc. Also, I think the men in drag bit for comedic effect (funny or not) has more to do with men who have the perceived notion of power in this country playing the supposed "submissive" role of the oppressed--in this case women. While it is not deemed politically correct to portray Blacks or Mexicans or whomever by outside groups--It has always been cool to degrade women. I agree that men in general and Black men specifically-have become less of the traditional "masculine man" but moreso because of the lack of fathers in the home-the lack of strong male role models in the community-the lack of men teaching boys to be men-and the breakdown of society at large. Men playing female characters are of the least concern to me when its the Men in prison and the "thug rappers" who the little boys emulate the most -and- to the most detriment of our culture.
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Name:
SweetieDarlin
Comment: Queenibunz!! SHHHH you are not supposed to think like that!! LOL
One more thing, many of us as women don't really know what we want so there is always a mixed message---It's like we want a man who can fight with his manicured hands. Get down and dirty in his nice clothes, smelling really good with dress shoes. He should have confidence without arrogance. Be humble but stand up for himself, as long as it doesn't disagree with our wants and desires. Tall order.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: But Sweetie D-a majority of women are "total packages"-total being as close to perfect as one can get in this physical life: Women are spiritual, We know how to be sweet and tender, strong and tough, independent, submissive, intellectual and subdued. We can clean the house and cook the food, plus work 40+ hour weeks. We play all roles at all times--why can't men do the same? Why can't they fix the car when its broken and clean their hands and nails when they are done? Why can't they play ball with the fellas and get all sweaty and stank-and then later, come in the house to take a shower with us? Why can't they help their kids with their homework and pick the kids up from school and help keep the house clean and tidy? Why can't he dress clean and sharp, but no how to throw down in the bedroom and out in the streets if necessary? Why can't he work for a living and make a decent wage to contribute to the household? Is it possible for a man to be most of those things without being gay or DL or considered effeminate??????? Or is that really asking too much? Just food for thought.
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Name:
itslove
Comment: I usually agree with Darryl's articles, however this time I think it's twisted. First of all, men dressing up like women FOR ENTERTAINMENT is not new. For many years most theatrical performances in particular Shakespeare, ALL the parts were played by men. White performers have dressed like women--Dustin Hoffman, Robin Williams, Milton Berle, etc. It's called entertainment! It would be a shame if the image of Black men is tied to a Tyler Perry or 369 Mafia and not seen for what it is---Entertainment in the 21st Century. And would it have been better if the character was played by a large Black Woman?
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Name:
dutches150
Comment: Darryl, your points are well taken. But I think there is a difference, to me dressing in drag is for the sole purpose of being in woman’s clothing and the idea of a man playing a female role is just that playing a female role. IMO I don’t think that the concept of Madea is to be a noticeable man in drag, but it is to portray the matriarch. Madea is a cross between Tyler’s loving and caring mother and his no nonsense aunt who didn’t care to impress anyone, she was who she was and said what she said regardless of who liked it or not and she was rather tall. My point is that role model or not these people are a part of someone’s life and that makes the character (outside of being a man playing a woman) a reality to some. Now with the likes of Jamie playing “Wanda” and Martin playing “Mother Payne” those are characters that were suppose to appear as they are (“Men” dressed as women). With all that being said, I think that some men are already doing a bang up job of distorting the image of the black males in our society so Tyler Perry playing a woman on the big screen is just the drop in the pool.
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Name:
dutches150
Comment: MER82, I have a husband just like that. He goes to work everyday and picks our daughter up from school, on any given day he can throw down in the kitchen, his mother taught him how to clean a house (he may not do it the way I like it all the time but he does it), he can take care of our cars, and play a helluva game of basketball, he can dress his azz off (one of the reasons I noticed him) and do the dam# thing in the bedroom. So….it is not too much to ask.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: I agree with dutches also-these men are portraying people who have strongly influenced their real lives in some way---perhaps if there were more Big Daddies around for most black children to emulate, the likes of Madea would have been a big ol man. Damn I said that in another posting...
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Name:
MER82
Comment: dutches-does your man have a brother? LOL...but seriously-
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: McNasty, thanks for answering my question before I could ask it ... I remember Daryl praising Terrance Howard as an actor, but I didn't remember reading him slam his role in H&F
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Name:
SweetieDarlin
Comment: Mer82, you are right it would be nice and the way you put it it seems attainable for most men. Unfortunately some men and with their experiences as adults they seem have a difficult time doing exactly that. Remember most women were trained to be everything to everybody, but even with that a woman's strength is good to some, to others she may be considered too strong because she can do everything. Also I think men have a more difficult time because they have to concern themselves with other perceptions and their ability to live up expectations but at times they are not told what the expectation is or even how to achieve what is asked, how to strike the balance you described. In some men's world, the wrong perception could get you hurt, cause you to lose money or to die. There seems to also be the issue that a lot of people say well you are a man, you ought to know what to do, and the man often has the least amount of training---There are a lack of fathers or father figures such as uncles, older brothers and granddads getting involved,mentors are few. Who trains them how to have that balance of strong yet tender (and what does that mean when it is said.) Men are searching for what to be, and how to be it, because many of them were not taught at home. Media images offer no help and sometimes are a hinderence. You articulated what the expectation should be and made it very clear. For the record I think men are up to challenge just how do they get there and how can we REALLY help (the problem usually is critism with directives on how to change.)
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Name:
MER82
Comment: I think you are right SweetieD-but its time for men to realize it for themselves. We can be supportive, but in this day and age, no one has the excuse anymore about what they didn't know. We all know and have seen with our own eyes the plight of our culture today, how do we bring it back? Everyone needs to be a leader first of all. We all need to be more accountable. Maybe it needs to be taken to the streets. When Tavis comes calling with his covenant and brothers like Darryl speak up and out-it will be up to the men to make it happen. Its time that they take ownership of their own faults and to pick up where the Million Man March left off. Sweetie-You may be more optimistic than I am, I am not so sure that most men are up for this challenge and the scary thing is-there is a whole new generation coming up that won't know the first thing.
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Name:
dutches150
Comment: LOL....MER82, he does have brothers but unfortunately they are married they're women are no fools, they knew to snatch them up.
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Name:
Kensbroh
Comment: I wholeheartedly agree w/D to tha J(from tha RapSheet days)! When I went to the movies on Mon. after Madea's opening weekend, I tried to force myself to buy a ticket for it, but I just couldn't do it! I couldn't see myself shelling out money for it! I went to see Running Scared instead. For anybody that loved Kill Bill, this is the movie for you!
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Name:
ChocCityPlaya
Comment: Now this was a good read! VERY on point. I've expressed the very same sentiments to family and friends since the very first time I've heard of Madea.
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Name:
mancheeks64
Comment: What is all the hype and debate about Tyler Perry. Anytime a Christian tries to do something positive it gets attacked by the enemy. And you who are hating on Tyler especially you Mr. James, are just a pawn in the enemies tactics. No wonder you are going "Mad" over something that is not even putting food on your table.
The concentration wasn't on the wonderful speech done by Cicely Tyson that echoed some of the concerns here in this forum. the concentration wasn't on the other character's played by Mr. Perry, one of whom was basically a "dirty old man". That seem to not make anyone "Mad". Nobody mentions the lessons that Madea brings across for black youth. All that seems to matter is a black man dressing up as a woman. Well, get used to it. Because we are not only going to see more in the theathers pretending, but in case you haven't noticed we have some of our beautiful transgendered ladies in our society too. Ha, ha, ha!
Mark
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Name:
jgunna
Comment: Mad Black Man-
(1 of 4)
I understand your view on the demasculation of the black man. However, I do not wholeheartedly agree with your view. Since we are mainly discussing Tyler Perry, I'll start with him. TP, in no way shape or form represents himself in public as a castrated male. Tyler's whole message has been to show people that they don't have to stay in the same situation they are in. He uses the same formula for every single play/movie. He doesn't even act like a woman dressed as Madea. The only thing that changes is his wardrobe and voice. From my perspective, he doesn't invoke anything negative, but rather self-empowerement (mainly for women) who are in abusive, cheating relationships; all with a Christian-oriented twist.
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Name:
jgunna
Comment: Mad Black Man-(2 of 4)
A friend of mines took the words right out of my mouth when she mentioned Wesley Snipes in "To Wong Foo..", Ving Rhames in "Holiday Heart", and Will Smith in "6 Degrees of Separation" They were actually trying to capture the demasculated black male, and thus castrated us unbeknown to them. They simply did it for a check. I personally wouldn't put on a dress to sell, but that is my business. A person that is caught up on what Tyler Perry is wearing is missing the whole reason behind his plays. What I get from him is "Treat my woman right, or else.." I don't get "Man, If I dress up like a female.." or "It's cool for a man to wear a dress."
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Name:
jgunna
Comment: Mad Black Man-(I did in 3 parts instead)
If we really want to get into the castration of the black male then we have to look back over 400 years to where it orignally began-- Slavery. how do you start of generation of weak men? By taking out the head of the household. The black man would be killed by "massa" in front of mother and child. The mother in turn would tell the male child to keep their head down and behave or their fate would be death by "massa". Another way to desmasculate the black male was taking a pregnant women, hanging her by her feet, slicing open her stomach and letting the unborn baby fall to the floor and then have the baby stomped all over. If that happened to most of us, we would get some "act right" real fast. Those are just two of the many ways we, as black men, were castrated. It's all subliminal, and it still plagues us today.
We as individual black men need to take responsibility for our own personal image. Never mind a public figure, becase we can choose not to watch. There are so much more important things to be angry about such as: "Why are there over a million black men in prison?" "Why don't we vote and complain when things go wrong?" "Why aren't we talking about the voting rights that need to be renewed next year in order for black people to continue to vote?" "Why are we running out on our women; leaving them pregnant to raise your child?" "Why are women the ones teaching us to be men?" "Why are there undercover brothers?" "Why don't we enterprise and run our own businesses?" "Why are we still waiting on another Dr. King to show us the way?"
In summation, there are bigger fish to fry. It's not worth the high blood pressure. Focus your energy on something worthwhile b/c I see your fire, and I can tell you want a change. Peace.
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