Sun, Nov 22, 2009
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: This was so on point and timely. I get tired of the rap industry applying words to their art and craft that overstate their talent. I don't know of anyone that could be considered 'genius' in this genre of music.
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Name:
DalTee
Comment: Really? Of course you don't think that Grandmaster Flash is genius for inventing the crossfade using an ordinary SPDT to allow a dj to listen to one channel in headphones while another plays through the speakers. This invention has allowed EVERY dj since him to be able to blend and beat match. Surely you don't find it genius that kids with no musical training can create a genre that has in 30 years taken over the musical world??? Surely you don't find it genius that kids who are deemd to be nothing can write and tangle words in a fashion so that everyone can understand them and express what they see?? I agree Kanye is not a genius, but to go so far as to say that noone in this genre of music genius is ridiculous. I will however, say that most of the genius is misplaced and could be directed into much more meaningful areas.
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Name:
DCSummer
Comment: I have to agree with you on that one DalTee.
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Name:
DCGG
Comment: So well put DalTee! I totally agree with your post!
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: Wow DalTee, that was so on point. I do have a problem with calling artists like Kayne and R.Kelly geniuses when they are just creative, but since I grew up with hip hop, I know exactly what you speak of. After 30-some odd years, hip hop and it's pioneers are still not getting the respect it/they so deserve mainly because of where hip hop is right now... people forget or just don't know the road it had to travel to get here.
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Name:
SilentJay
Comment: Yeah I got to ride with DalTee. For the most part I think Kanye is little over blown because Hip-Hop music is in the doldrums right now(and I don't care what Russel Simons says). Kanye is talented but genius is not the word I would use. It's all relative, if you compare Kanye to some of the other stuff passing for Hip-Hop nowadays (emphasis on the passing) Kanye does seem to be on the genius trail but he's not there yet. Truthfully I think of KRS-ONE, RUNDMC, African Bambada, the guys who took an Idea that was only relatable to one group of people and remade it so that many people could understand. To me that is the true mark of genius. Taking seemingly complicated stuff and making look so easy. Like Einstein's formula E=MC sqaured(no way to shrink the number 2) There are alot of artist out thier doing great stuff. But if the word Genius is have the meaning it implies, we have to be more discriminating in our taste(I little uppity if you will)as far as the music and the culture is concerned. finally here are three other words that seem to have lost some of thier meaining becuae of thier over use, Love, Happines, War. You may fire when ready.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Ain't nothing genius about this genre of music.
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Name:
SilentJay
Comment: You don't think that there are some artist with in Hiphop that have taken this genre of music to genius esque level? Maybe not full blown genius but atleast they have brought it to a level that hadn't been attempted by some of the people that came before them.
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Name:
phalcon7
Comment: True Genius stands the test of time... these so called "works of wonder" in the hip hop era change faster than the prize's in a happy meal... i ask my daughter (facetiously), "Who's the number one rapper THIS WEEK"... Marvin Gaye is as fresh today as he was when he was with us... his "What's Going On" album when listened to today, speaks to how the world is still failing... the TRUE GENIUS of "What's Going On" is rooted in the fact that the words were spoken 35 years ago... the war was different... economics were different... but we as a people seem to be suffering the same problems today... are we going to be looking at Spinners, 30" Rims, and Bling-Bling the same way 35 years from now... hell no... Spinner Rims are already over with... in fact, i've heard the generation who loved them so much 2 years ago now say they make you look like a clown... take some Bling-Bling into a fast food restaurant and try to get some french fry's... they'll still want the 69 cents... i'd say maybe some of these so called "genius" thoughts could be resolved if the air heads who are expounding would back off the Grape Nuts... we need a real movement here... a brain enema...
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: If true genius stands the test of time then hip hop is a genius work. Hip hop change the landscape of music because you can hear its influence in pop, rock and even country. Yes, I believe there are rap artists that are over-rated, just like any genre of music, but to say the entire genre of rap isn’t genius and did not produce genius work just isn’t true. For me, a genius work in hip hop would be “The Message” by Flash and the Furious Five. It’s a classic timeless record in the same vain as Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Going On”.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Exactly Phalcon7 - still no genius in this genre!
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Name:
SilentJay
Comment: Good exmaple Gemami "The Message" is a timeless record. Phalcon7 is right about the trend orientted aspects of Hiphop but he or she is failing to recognize examples such as the one Gemami has brought up. The Hiphop of the early 2000's has been spotty and lacking of depth(no doubt)but I don't think you simply dismiss the entire genre the way McNasty has. I mean C.R.E.A.M. from the Wutang will eventually become a timless record and atleast one or more of Nas's joints from the early 90's will also become classic joints. If staying power is what your talking about, there is plenty of rap music I could bring up not to mention that the very genre we're talking about was branded as a 90's fad that go way with the high top fades and bagy jeans that acompanied it in the begining. And it is still here, maybe that alone makes it genius. You may fire when ready
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: SilentJay I didn't dismiss anything, read my posts, I said there was no genius not that hip hop was total trash! Allow me to speak for myself and if you require clarification, by all means ask. I am R&B and agree that The Message is a timeless record but you're not going to get 10 groups or songs from this genre that people will reference or even remember in 35 years unless it is a hip hop old head left over from better times.
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Name:
SilentJay
Comment: And I didn't write that you said hiphop was "total trash" but YOU DID SAY NO GENIUS IN THIS GENRE in you first post and after you agreed with phalcon7. That means you paint all the music with the same brush especiially when you use words like "GENRE" you didn' give specifics. You need to go back and read MY POST before you ever accuse me of putting words in anybody's mouth. When you use the word "Genre", you're talking about all of the music. If you were talking about a sub category of rap music within the "Genre", then yes McNasty you need to clarify. And as for the future, I'm not MS.Cleo and neither are you. Whether or not this "Genre" will produce music that people recall in 35 years will have to be determined by a future of group people who post messages on what ever futuristic version of the internet they will be using in 35 years.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: There is no genius in the hip hop/rap genre.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: I will concede that there is some talent, but no genius.
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Name:
SilentJay
Comment: Then I shall put my piston back in its holster and move to next topic that we're bound miss read each other on. But I won't concede that there is no genius in hip-hop music. SilentJay over and out
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Name:
SpelmanRho
Comment: When I was a child my mother FORBADE us to use the word "like" in the ubiquitous manner that it is used today. She also didn't like it when we said "You know what I mean ?", to which she quickly responded "No. I don't. Say what you mean". Once I became "grown" I let myself slip back into the lazy habits of language. How I wish I hadn't.
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Name:
poeticlyspkng
Comment: I agree with Steve and I have been saying this for a long time. The word genious is totally overused by generation X'ers and those to follow. I think because many of us do not know music history we define anyone out there making it big time as a genius. It is not based on what they actually know more often than not. If R Kelly and Kanye are genius, than does that make those before them- Smokey Robinson (master songwriter) and Babyface Super-Genius'? AND-I know many who have proclaimed Michael Jackson genius when he brought dancing skills (moonwalk and other breakdancing techinues) he picked up from the streets to the mainstream. Was he genius for that? Does anyone who works a hustle well deserve the title genius? I don't know about anyone else but it absolutely scares me that future generations will come to link the word genius with the ilk that we are leaning toward. Most people reserve that word for people who have truly made some mark in the world and we need to do the same. I think the most genius thing that either of those cats has done is make people think they are. I guess if it's said enough times, the people will start to believe it.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: I also agree that the term "genius" has been overused. However, I do think that rap has produced a few. Maybe not from a musical standpoint, but from sheer poetry of their verses.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Poeticlyspkng I wholeheartedly agree! Check it out SilentJay and I too shall holster my two boyfriends and move to higher ground.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: DalTee I never did answer your question - sorry. No I don't I'm from an era where folk actually played instruments, where entertainers had bands and orchestras and such, which would put you on the path to genius re: Prince, EWF, James Brown. It takes no brains to play with buttons.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: yep, speaking eloquently is sexy as heyell *smirk*
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: lemme give a stab at a list of songs that might stand the test of time besides "The Message" .. Rappers Delight, Parents Just Don't Understand, Walk This Way, Roxanne Roxanne, What's My Name, I Get Around, One More Chance, OPP, Baby Got Back ... there are many that I think will stand the test of time actually
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Name:
Exmun
Comment: Lauryn Hill made a 'classic' record with her "The Miseducation of..." The WHOLE album was good. Still her effort was good, perhaps even great for its time and beyond. But the term "genius" I would not apply. Many of todays mid 90s and 21st century rappers have splashes of brilliance on a song or two. Kanye's 'Jesus Walks' was a brilliant work due to IMO how he melded a complex mix of voice and sound and channelled a single message out of it. Good, but not 'genius.' Jay-Z's verse and the fact that he's changed his style in major ways like three times or so puts him up there in rap. Still, I can't see genius. Even if you're the 'best of show' or better than all the rest, it still doesn't make you 'genius' material.
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Name:
Exmun
Comment: Plus, I've always defined a 'genius' as someone whose work permanently changed the game. No one in today's hip hop has litterally 'changed the game'. Splashes of brilliance. A good hook or two, but nothing earth-shattering coming out of there in quite some time. And the way how we're going, it doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. I agree with McNasty... no geniuses in hip hop that I can tell.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: Okay folks we can all agree that the words described in the article are greatly misused and abused, but let's not paint this broad brush over all of Hip Hop okay? The very Culture of Hip Hop changed the game in and of itself. It's influence permeates across the globe. Let's not confuse generation gap with the reality of the picture the author is painting--In Society IN GENERAL-these words are being grossly overused, while others go under-utilized and unappreciated---You see it in the News Media, Film, Music, pop culture, the white folks at the job--ALL OF US have a hand in this madness--lets get over the age differences in this perspective please.
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Name:
phalcon7
Comment: i love this comment by McNasty, "it takes no brains to play with buttons"... true some of the poetry in rap is brillant, but if you look at the rap artist who have hit the hardest, they almost always have a certain musical tone in their voice... it's that tone the harnesses our feelings, and makes us want to listen to something over and over again... Kool Moe D did just that with "Wild Wild West"... but even in the greatness of that time period i don't hear anyone from the NOW (radio or otherwise) pulling on "Wild Wild West" like we do "What's Going
On"... "Genius" like the word "Expert" are throw away words to help build things that just aren't there... there doesn't seem to be a shortage of either one of them...
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