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Name: DoctorSmooth

Comment: I havent been angry over an issue like this for a long time. And its ridiculous how our so called black "leadership" has refused to really show any real leadership on this issue. The people hurt the most by illegal immigration is BLACK people!! But neither, the Dems, Republicans , or the "black leadership" wants to talk about this, because no-one wants to be seen as anti-Latino! Who cares about viewed as anti-Latino. Illegal immigrants are lawbreakers, and rewarding lawbreakers only encourages more of the same. We need a new genaration of Black leadership, to boldly speak up for our people's best interests, and to replace Jesse, Sharpton, and the other jokers who pretend to speak for us.

Name: DoctorSmooth

Comment: Another thing too... This just shows also how black America is now losing its political clout. Blacks give 90% of their vote to the Democrats but the party has shown complete disregard for their black supporters. Democrats, who take our vote for granted, are now catering to the Latinos. They know the majority of the 12 million illegal aliens will probably vote Democrat after they become citizens one day. Most blacks dont like the Republicans, for various reasons, automatically and slavishly give their vote to the Dems, a party that doesnt really care about us... they just like to collect our vote every 4 years. You think these politicians dont KNOW that illegal aleiens are hurting poor black people? Of course they do!! Do you think they care? Of course not. The Republicans figure they're not going to get the black vote anyway... and the Democrats feel they will keep getting 90% of our vote no matter what... So there you have it. No major party is truly interested in working for the black vote, or defending our interests. The latino community and vote have become more important to them. It's sad, but we, as a people have been pushed over into a corner. And most of us didnt even see it coming. What a shame.

Name: ChakaTee

Comment: The ones who claim to "lead" the Black community have made very little progress. In fact, very little progress has been made since the last real leader was taken from the scene on April 4,1968. The fact that the Dems are recruiting at these protests isn't a surprise. The Dems have cornered the Black voting collective with over 90% voting Democratic. If Democrats manage to corner the Hispanic vote like they have cornered the Black vote, Republicans won't win the White House for a very long time. This is the Democrats' dream, so they are trying very hard to pep up the Hispanic community by turning the immigration issue into another civil rights issue. And the quicker the Dems can dissociate themselves from Blacks the quicker they can get the southern Caucasian folks aboard their train. And once again Blacks are kicked to the curb. And if I can see this, why can’t our so-called Black leaders see this? Mexicans are being favored over Black men just like the Irish, Italians and Chinese were in the past. The Dems feel that Black people don't vote, Black people are in prison, and they basically just kicked Black folks to the curb. It's time that we open our mouths again and it's time for new leadership. For real. I think I'll lose my damn mine if I have to hear the "They are hard working" song again! I am sick of hearing that song! Give me a break! Right now since they are illegal of course they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them. Of course they will work harder for less pay because they know that if they open their mouths and complain, they can be fired, replaced and deported. Once this bill is passed, the illegals will take on the same work ethic as Americans: they'll be asking for better working conditions, better pay, overtime pay, they'll want to take a break in the mornings and afternoon and then they also be asking for a job with some BENEFITS!!

Name: musbdherbs

Comment: Doc...instead of being upset at a political party or "black leadership"...I would suggest being upset at black people. W/all of the voting power that we have...are we to blame the black leaders and the politicians for "us" not having a voice? I mean, 90% is quite a significant number dedicated to a single party. We are where we are in large part due to our complacency and lack of organization. We say marches don't work nemore, speeches don't work, "u don't speak for me" etc....YET w/all of our complaining we are consistently inactive. Has ur and others like you disdain for the "black leaders" moved us any closer to a common goal. W/those who disagreed w/Cosby, Al, Jessie, Farrakhan etc...divergent "views" done nething to move us any closer? You would think that all of this dislike would be channel into a powerful "positive" force w/in our community. But, it hasn't. So in the meanwhile what do we do? Continue to complain about our "black leaders" and the democratic party taking advantage of us w/o any action on our part...and I mean collective action...not individually. Is there ne black national figurehead who has come to the front on the immigration issue? Irrespective of party is there ANY black person? What do the black republicans have to say on this issue as they need the votes as much as the dem's do? So again we have us sitting back complaining about what some are doing while others aren't do nething. That's a problem. "Conservatives" make SURE there voices are HEARD. Don't believe me, ask Harriet Meirs. Are we to blame the dem's for taking advantage of a group of people who won't actively participate in the political arena? That's all a part of politics..like it or not..it is what it is. But, u and everyone who agree w/u continuing to place the blame on the black leadership and the dems as the "ills of our community" hasn't seemed to help us at all. In fact, it seems as if we're just at a standstill. Inaction leads to inaction and that's what we have.

Name: EdnaMae

Comment: As someone who grew up in a border community, I saw that Mexicans were able to stick together, even though most seldom voted. I don't see why black "leaders" should have a voice in it, the Mexicans aren't of the Caesar Chavez kind, want to work together for the betterment of all minorities, the new Mexicans are out for themselves and their Mexican culture. They want nothing to do with the USA and particularly with blacks, who they feel are inferior. Once they start voting, blacks in the South will see just how much power they have, and it isn't going to be pretty.

Name: Gemami

Comment: Why do illegals and other immigrants come to this country and look down on Blacks? They are able to get loans, a college education and housings, while we are still struggling. For me that's the problem -- after all these years of struggling, fighting and marching, to get what is rightfully ours, Blacks are still looked at and referred as the underclass. We do not stand up for our rights, we do not ban together, we are way too complancent and we settle for crumbs when we need to demand the whole damn pie. Why are we looking for a a savior in the Dems, the Republicans or even these so-called Black organizations that are funded by Whites. Their agendas will never be our and they could care less about our well-being.

Name: DoctorSmooth

Comment: Musbdherbs, maybe youre missing my point. I am not just blaming Democrats. The Republicans aren’t doing much for us on this either. I am ticked off at both parties. This goes beyond parties, this is a mater of apathy. Our country is being re-shaped before our eyes, and the politicians don’t care what the average man on Main Street thinks. My point is that the Democrats are the ones that black people give 90% of their vote to, so logically the Dems are the ones you would think that would fight for black people on this issue. But that’s the problem. Because blacks have given over their vote to one party, the Dems feel they can disrespect and neglect our needs, since they’ve got our vote anyway. I’m ticked off at the Dems in particular because they are the ones who like to tell black people that Republicans don’t care about black people so we need to vote Democratic. But this just proves that Dems don’t care about black PEOPLE either, just the black VOTE!! And yes by being upset with the black leadership, of course I’m mad at black people too, because they are the ones who have tacitly chosen these men to be our most visible representatives in the media in the media and in our community.. Blacks who might be conservative or even independent aren’t given a lot of play among our people. Its like you have to be a liberal or Democrat to be considered a credible black voice. So we don’t allow a diversity of blacks to come to the forefront to express views that could be helpful. We talk about diversity, but we don’t allow a real diversity of ideas an opinions to gain prominence in our community.. U also ask what am I doing… the fact is one person can only do so much. You, I , or anyone else might blog, write letters, make calls etc, but in the real world , unless you have an organized group of people with CLOUT , looking to make change, no change will take place. So in the end, most of us will end up being frustrated about this issue, because the people (Dem, Repub, Independent, whatever) who do have CLOUT are not using it. So in the end, black people have been sent to the back of the bus again. That’s just it in a nutshell. It’s a grim picture, but its reality.

Name: Train

Comment: What part of "illegal" don't these ignorant mf's understand????

Name: musbdherbs

Comment: Doc...I understand fully what you're saying. I think we just have two different views of what a political party does. Ok..let's try this...The US Chamber of Commerce is a business federation but it only really benefits the large corporations. Small business owners pay dues BUT u don't find a lot of lobbying on their behalf. W/the political parties, most of the people who actually benefit from party agendas are those who make their voices heard. Not just those who vote. Party's decide what's going to make you VOTE for them and beyond the vote..if u don't do anything to make them stick to their campaign promises..they're going to be less concerned. If those who are against gay marraige didn't allow their voices to be heard....the marriage thing would be a moot point. I'm pretty sure of that. Both Conservatives AND liberals YTS are good about making their voices heard. HOWEVER, you don't find a lot of blacks on EITHER side doing a lot in that area. In fact, most time is spent attempting to downplay the accomplishments of some and classifying the others as insignificant. Seriously, have u ever heard Condeleeza speak on an important issue that affects her race? We can't say that there is no platform for her views because she's a member of a presidential cabinet so the platform is there. That's not to say that she's not concerned but u still don't hear it. Conversely, you often hear liberal blacks speak on issues but they lack effectiveness...in part because WE have deemed them as insignificant and often say they don't represent us. This is true for both conservative and liberal blacks. They all say "you don't speak for me" So, the question is...who do they speak for then. If we know that they don't speak for us then why do we not create our own voice in opposition. There is a platform there but who's bold enuff to get onstage and champion our cause? NO ONE other than the usual gang of "leaders" do that. So, that's who were left with. Actually, name a black conservative/independant who speaks on issues that affect us who don't get a lot of play amongst us? The stage is empty. We have all the resources we need but we are too busy crying foul because we don't agree w/EVERYTHING one of us has said. There is no unity in that. Pat Robertson can talk about all day long about how the people in Delaware should "not call on god [ff there's a terroist attack] because they turned away from him" simply cuz they didn't approve of teaching intelligent design. BUT, last I checked he is still a powerful voice representing a lot of yt evengelicals. He speaks for them and I can't recall many people saying that he nor others like him are "pimps." So, yes I just as disappointed w/the leadership "I" just chose not to say their insignificant. Just as the "fire and brimstone"-type pastor appeals to a certain group of people..so do the Al's, Jessie's, Pat's, and Jerry's.

Name: Train

Comment: It's obvious that these protestors have no respect for the law for the simple fact that snuck in here illegally. Not only that but they're draining our social services and the public schools are in the toilet. The campanies that employ these people should be fined to the fullest because of their complete disregard for the law. Bush is full of shyt when he states that they do jobs that americans won't do knowing dayum well that americans won't work for $2 an hour and the companies know exactly what they're doing. I won't let the politicians off the hook either because they have shown no spine at all in trying to protect our country and enforce the laws of our people. All involved should be ashamed of themselves.

Name: SpelmanRho

Comment: OK maybe I'll get hollered at for this, but I think that immigrant rights are important. I think this entire immigration debates is racist. How do we know that 90% off illegal immigrants are Hispanic ? You mean to tell me that there aren't any illegal Eastern Europeans (or western ones for that matter) ? I think this is a ploy (that's working unfortunately) to keep blacks and browns apart. The same issues/ills that affect blacks also affect Hispanics and Latinos disproportionately. If blacks and Latinos formed a unified block and demanded that which would benefit our communities this country would HAVE to respond. There's more of us than them. They know this; so what do they do ? Pit the races against each other. If we fight each other for the scraps of the American bounty we'll continue to ignore (and cease demanding) the full course meals we deserve. Unfortunately, both Blacks and Latinos have fallen for the bait hook, line, and sinker.

Name: musbdherbs

Comment: Spel...if I wasn't tired of reading my own writing I would've came back and said the same thing. But, since u did..oh well. Of course it's racist and not just that the whole debate issue is entirely misleading. People have formed the whole illegal immigration issue around those coming from mexico. They've included national security in this argument. While that has quite a bit of merit... the whole idea of illegal immigration IMO is some'n different. I know several people from Asia, Africa (and I don't mean just those "dark" ones), and many from Europe who have come here and their work visas have expired. Even if they came here legally but are now here illegally..to me they are still illegal immigrants. Yet, you don't here a whole lot on that. The entire INS needs to be revamped. You have people who have been tax paying residents for 10 or more years who aren't citizens because of crazy policies. It's so unfair for "mexicans" to be considered illegal immigrants and not form the debate on the "whole" of illegal immigrants. How can u isolate one group but excuse another? I just don't get it. And for those who are against sending them all back...you're called all sorts of names. It sounds very familiar to if you support a troop withdrawal cuz then ur called "unpatriotic" There is no easy answer and people need to stop actin as if there is. This a long-term problem which needs long-term solutions. I can guarantee that even if they rounded up all illegal immigrants TODAY and sent them back....these jobs that people are complaining about being taken away...will still be left unfilled. And then what do u have?

Name: Train

Comment: Personally I don't give a f'uck what country an immigrant is from, my only concern is whether they're legal or not. If they went through the process which includes health screening, criminal background check, command of the english language and enough finance to not be a burden on the taxpayes then I don't have a problem with those that go according to the law. The ones I have a problem with are those that try to get over by sneaking in over here and then use tax supported social services and public schools which by proof has both gone down the toilet. We are a nation of laws and to break the law and call us "racist" takes a lot of f'ucking nerve. These people don't give a dayum about this country, they just want to take, take and take while dragging us down along with them. The politicians are spineless and the president is clearly incompetent.

Name: DoctorSmooth

Comment: Well Spelman, a few points. 1) The reason we know 90% of illegal immigrants arre illegal is based on a) border patrol statistics of who they capture at the border, and b) the INS statistics of the nation of origin they deport illeagl immigrants back to. So its not just a made-up number, there are statistical ways of arriving at hat figure. 2) I notice that you, like many illegal alien sympathizers , refer to them as "immigrants", not "illegal immigrants" which is what they are. Its the same as calling them "undocumented workers". Its a disingenuous argument because they are here illegally, and, besides basic human rights, dont have "rights" to free healhtcare, college assistance, and other social services which they get all across america. Why is it so hard to call it like it is? Illegals are just that... people who have broken our laws. The argument is not against immigrants who come here legally, but illegaly. They are robbing us law abiding tsxpayers of hard earned tax dollares, and are robbing many working class people, especially poor blacks , or jobs that we could be doing. Those same jobs would have been done if illegal aliens were not here... they'd be done by americans, as they were before the illegals got here. Not to mention that those jobs were often done by LEGAL immigrants who now see those jobs taken by those who cut in line ahead of them. Why have a legal process of immigration if we're going to reward those who disregard our legal immagration process? and 3) You refer to america trying to divide blacks and latinos... as if ulu think latinos care about black people. Latino activists care about the Latin agenda, and many latino illegal immigrants look down on black people, if you dont know. Go to Miami, a Cuban stronghold, or southern california, a Mexican stronghold, and see how much Latinos care (or dont care) about black people. Once they get enough social and political clout in an area, they tend to look out for their own, and blacks to them, become outsiders. Thats s long story , so I'll just leave it at that, for now but for sure, I know what I'm talking about on that subject.. ....So , my question for you and all other sympathizers of illegals, ..What other country can you go to illegally, nto pay taxes, and then demand they give you social services for free, and eventually citizenship? Probably nowhere but here, becasue we have a government that makes laws but doesnt want to enforce thoses laws. And those of us who demand enforcement of the laws are labeled as "racist".

Name: Train

Comment: >DrSmooth, That's what I'm talking about, my point exactly. My great, great grandfather came to this country legally back in the day...noticed that I said the word "legally" from Trinidad and he prospered. I have a big problem with folks that break the law and then try to get over by playing the race card when they get called out for it. Any blacks that support them are stupid 'cause the latinos and asians don't give a f'uck about black folks. I see it out here on a daily in southern calif.

Name: DCGG

Comment: Train - foreal you sound like some country %*$, ig'nant, redneck from back in the day that couldn't stand another group of people that were "immigrants with dark skin". Why so much hatred?

Name: My2Pennies

Comment: If you need proof that 90% of illegal immigrants are Latino, come to Los Angeles.

Name: musbdherbs

Comment: Doc...so what is your solution? How we do rid the country of 10+ million "illegal aliens?" How do u get that done? What you and your ilk continue to do is act as if because people don't agree that we should bag 'em, criminalize 'em and send 'em back home, then ur somehow less concerned about the affect that them being here has on our economy. That's not true at the least. There is no ONE answer to this problem and ur side complaining that the other side don't care...and the other saying ur insensitive does NOT solve the problem at all. Latino's don't care about blacks? SO WHAT! We don't care about blacks so why would we expect another race too. What are the statistics on black/black crime as opposed to any other ethnic group? Last I check we led in that category so I dont' care if they don't like us or not. Yt people care about yt people. Asians care about asians. Jamaicans care about Jamaicans. Mexicans care about Mexicans. So...again wuts ur point. There isn't one group that doesn't care about their own FIRST. Train because someone may have committed an illegal act DOES NOT mean that they can't be a victim of racism. You can kill your wife and still be a victim of racism. I guess if you did...certain things like racism and prejudice wouldn't apply 2 u cuz u've completed a crime? That's just....uhm...well..that's really an interesting point of view.

Name: DoctorSmooth

Comment: Musbd…I normally don’t disrespect people on this board , but I gotta tell you straight up, you need to just shut up sometimes, cuz you don’t know want yore talking about. You refer to me and my “ilk”, presumably conservatives. But I am an independent mind, so stop assuming my position on things based on what you think “my ilk” thinks about things. Did you hear me say anythingabout “ bagging and returning” 11 million people to their countries? I mean really, man, just shut up. My comments were dealing with the fact that our govt has allowed this problem to develop unchecked for years, and that black leadership has not been very vocal on the fact that this is a problem that disproportionately affects the black community in a negative way. My main issue is that we need to do more to stop the flood of millions of incoming illegals, who depress the wages and hurt the working poor of all races in this country. . You didn’t hear me say anything about criminalizing or deporting anyone now did you? so you’re just coming up with that stuff on your own. I was referring to the problem that exists. Now the solution is another matter, and there are no easy answers. Most of us have ideas as far as a possible solution, some more workable than others. If you choose to ask what’s my solution , fine. But why choose to follow that up with an attack on me based on what you feel some conservatives and Republicans feel on this issue?. And I’m an independent that leans conservative, I’m not even a Republican, and never will be. You assume to know my position on things when you don’t even know what you’re talking about. If you don’t hear someone make a particular statement on an issue, how can you decide to criticize them on it, just because you assume they and their “ilk” feel a certain way. I already know you have little regard for conservatives in general and black conservatives in particular, but don’t be running your mouth taking ignorant stuff and attacking someone for something they didn’t even say. That’s ridiculous . And my comment about Latinos caring about Latinos, not blacks was in response to other persons comments about how whites are trying to divide blacks and latinos. I notice you always want to come at me on this board with some foolishness, even bordering on hostility sometimes, maybe as a way of venting your anti-Conservative sentiments. Man, you need to come with some rationality and common sense on this board, and realize you can disagree with people on the board without oozing all this seething resentment you seem to have, or whatever it is. After all , its just s message board, It ain’t life and death. Am I not entitled to my opinion, as youre entitled to yours? You need to calm down, brotha.

Name: DoctorSmooth

Comment: Since you asked about solutions, Musb, I’ll throw in my 2 cents. I can t claim have the best answer, but I know we need to take solid, concrete steps to deal with this, both within the US, and at our borders.. I know though that you can’t just round up and deport 11 million people. That would make us a police state. So out of practicality,. I agree with the guest worker idea, so at least we’d know who these people are, and we could keep track of them…. And any employer who then hires an illegal alien would be subject to at least at $15,000 fine. That would help stop the main issue, which is EMPLOYERS breaking the law hiring them, and by preventing illegals from working underground, that would push them into the guest worker program. I would deport any of them who has committed felonies, just the way LEGAL immigrants face deportation for felony convictions too. I’d require those who have been working here illegally to pay back-taxes , or some kind of fine, in order to make up for unpaid taxed to the government all these years . But more than that, I’d also do something about our borders, which is the root of this whole issue. We can’t have over a million people crossing our borders annually the way they do now. Not only is it a social and economic issue, but it’s a national security issue too. In a nutshell, that’s the outline of what I think would be a good start.

Name: musbdherbs

Comment: LMAO @ doc. You telling me to shut up on a message board is in NO Way seen as a "cyber-disrespect" let's get that straight 1st. How ur going to say to me, "stop assuming" when in the preceding sentence u addmittedly "presumed" that I was talking about conservatives is bewildering to me. I hear my liberal BLACK friends and YT friends say that we should send 'em all back. I hear them say that we should treat them as criminals. So, that is NOT a conservative position. Even Bill O'reilly AND your president don't think that you should do this and the last I checked..both of them were conservatives...quite to be exact. I don't disagree w/u on what the gov't has allowed. BUT, what u did was fault the "black leadership," namely Democrats for not doing more on this issue when there are NO blacks..irrespective of party who are speaking out. That's part of the point of contention. WHAT has ANY black person who's in a position of influence said on this issue? Name one. The only position that I'm aware of is the one u present in THIS forum. I don't know u lest u forget so the only thing ne1 up in this camp can do is AZZUME? So, if I wrongly azzumed your political party, it could have some'n to do w/the fact that I've never read a post from you championing the cause of ANY "liberal" democratic issue and rarely if ever the same for a republican one. I've never read a "moderate" position from you. And reading from your post, you are an independant w/conservative leanings so what do u expect people to think. Seems to me that I was more on target w/my azzumption than u were w/mine. Blame that on ur skills at expression. NOT my ignorance. Additionally, did u not azzume that I have little regard for conservatives..esp black conservatives? You've based that on what again? Show me examples of ur claim? Since this is my consistent view then that shouldn't be too hard to do. If you've taken the opportunity to read ANY of my post then u would see that my views are not single track....which is what those who are on the far left and right have. One-track minds..my way or no way. So, let's get the facts straight and if u got ur panties in a wad because u don't agree w/some'n I said...then that's ur wedgie to deal w/..not mine.

Name: ladybyrd

Comment: Joseph C. Phillips you are on a roll. I have really enjoyed reading your last few columns. And I too, feel that the NAACP, Our leaders and the people should have taken a stand long ago. This problem didn't arise last week, this has been going on for years. We are always a day late (or in this case a decade or two too late).

Name: DoctorSmooth

Comment: Well, Musb.First off, well you ask me , on what do I base the belief that you have little regard for conservatives and black conservatives in general? It’s based on your long track recond of attacking black conservatives like myself, Joseph Philips, and pretty much any conservative discussed on this board. For you to deny that would show you to be a liar, because your pattern of bashing conservatives and conservative positions on this board has been an ongoing thing. I have every reason to believe it will continue, since a leopard doesn’t change its spots. You show you're a hypocrite too, by your own words, when you try to imply that you weren’t really referring to conservatives when you referred to me and my "ilk" . You still haven’t said what my ilk was, since you were presuming I wanted illegals criminalized and rounded up. I stated plainly that you were wrong on that since I have never said that, so I still don’t know what "ilk" you would be referring to. I can only reasonably assume that since you are always bashing conservatives on here, and you clearly see me as being a hard-line conservative, the comment was referring to conservatives as a whole. You claim you’ve never seen me take a moderate position on anything . Well, considering the many posts you’ve seen me make on this board over these years, either a) you just pick and choose what you wish to take away from what you’ve seen me posting on this board , b) your just don’t read and/or comprehend very well or c) youre just a pathological liar. You can claim now that O'Reilly and some liberals also have called for deporting illegals , but that’s just a cover up. You’re simply a liar, because from the context it was clear that you were making assumptions about my position on deporting illegals, based on the position taken by some hard-line conservatives on this issue, and assuming I took the same position... a position I have made it clear I don’t share. I’m not going to expect you to admit you were wrong in your assumptions. The facts speak for themselves. Anyone who reads all of my posts and yours will see that youre the one who took it in a direction I wasn’t even taking it , based on false assumptions. If youre going to put somebody on blast, at least read the person’s post properly so you’ll at least sound like you know what youre talking about. Have yourself a good day, my brother.

Name: SilentJay

Comment: I think the whole immigration issue is half bull@#*! half distraction. I think the truth is this. 1. no matter what, Big Corporation is not giving up that cheap labor at least not with the Repubs still running everything. 2. Breaking the law is breaking the law and the fact of the matter is some of these people are breaking the law. I don't care what thier situation is because the truth is if we were talking about 11.5 million Hatians there wouldn't be an issue, they would be deported immediately. 3. JC is right, Americans would do those manual labor jobs if they paid a decent wage and maybe came with some benefits. But since illegals don't have the clout to complain about things like that Big Corp continues to exploit them anyway. Like I said at the top this is all just another distraction from American Car companies closing factories and Amercian Tech companies sending thier work to India. Americans are angry with the job situation and war and the Repubs on the hill are looking real bad right now and are looking for a scape goat. They did it during the election by disracting the voters with terrorism and gay marriage. And now they are looking for someghing else to save thier soory butts from being put of office in November. Maybe that's the reason NAACP and the CBC have steered clear of this, they are hoping the Repubs hang themselves. Sometimes being a good leader means knowing when not to lead. You may fire when ready.

Name: SpelmanRho

Comment: >Dr. Smooth: I don't think you're racist. I think the context in which a truly valid issue (illegal immigration) in being framed nationally is racist. Of course statistics will show that 90% of illegal immigrants are of Mexican decent if the majority of those statistics are taken from border states. Stats are only as valid as their methodology. As far as illegal immigrants taking jobs from black people, both races are being exploited by employers. Until the issue of living wages for low skilled workers are addressed and championed in the larger context of society then any large population of marginal people will be the next/ new "Mexicans". While illegal immigrants might not pay federal taxes, if they buy merchandise in your state or have a house in your state, they pay taxes. Since the majority of the services you named: schools, hospitals, social services, receive the largest block their budgets from State revenue they are not only entitled to those services(they pay for them too) but, drastically reducing their numbers would have an affect on state revenue. The issue of immigration is multilayered. It should include SERIOUS conversations about the working poor/low wage workers of all races, corporate/business hiring practices, sustainable third world economic growth, along with a host of other issues. The mantra of "Send the Mexicans Back" is simplistic, naive, and racist answer to a problem that will continue exist because it benefits the wealthy. I do realize that there are Hispanics and Latinos who look down their noses at black people. There have always been and will always continue to be those who look down on blacks. That's comes with the skin color. But what does that have to do with black people siding with injustice just because it isn't us ? As black people we KNOW what it's like to be the scapegoat, and to be mistreated, yet we seem (now a days) to over look (even more disheartening) participate in the discriminatory rhetoric of the day. That's wrong. Personally, I don't base what I feel is right or wrong on whether or not a person likes me. You could hate my guts, but if I feel like you're being mistreated I'm going to speak on it. Not because of who you are, but because of who I am. If I stand for justice only for black folks, equality only for black folks, opportunity only for black folks, then not only am I a worthless person (and Christian), I am the black side of the same white face that enslaved my forefathers. I REFUSE to be that.

Name: Kofi

Comment: >Silent J You saved me the time and energy because I was going to duplicate your post. This issue exposes the fault lines between the liberal/dem ,black leadership and the average black citizen. It demonstrates that black people are not "liberal" on all issues. On the one hand we can side with the repubs because this will be used as a wedge issue so that they can stay in power. We have seen the dems are simply political opportunist who take our vote for granted. I think a viable strategy would be to vote the candidate who best represents our interest and not the party. We could try voting independent or Green or better yet donate money. Both parties would take notice then. JCP since the Bushites took you off the payroll, you have been on point. Welcome back to the world most black people inhabit.

Name: SpelmanRho

Comment: >Doc. Smooth: Plus we as consumers have to take the blame for some of this. Our demand for cheap merchandise has not only destroyed the manufacturing industry in this country but depresses yield for third world growers/exporters so that they cannot support themselves. Better to work in the US for 5 an hour than make $5 for a whole year on the coffee harvest. Coffee, which we buy from Starbucks for $5 a cup (depending on what you put in it). This is my point. The issue is multi-faceted and there is no SERIOUS discussion being done. The larger underlying subtext has been race. To everyone on the board: ASK FOR/BUY FAIR TRADE ITEMS ! It may cost you a dollar or two more. But you'd be amazed at how a dollar or can SERIOUSLY improve the living condition of those in developing countries. I am CONVINCED that there are enough resources on this planet (including money) for EVERYONE. We just have to be willing to share.

Name: musbdherbs

Comment: Doc..uhm..have u taken ur meds today? If the "long track record of attacking black conservatives" u can name consists solely of u and JCP, I guess that would make me have little regard. You get into labels, I don't! If you want to be the only one to suck JCP's nuts..go ahead. I have no problem w/that. You believe (as u've said b4) that any conversation like this or personal responsibility that JCP writes about...he's lambasted each and every time. On that one u wrong as well. I like FACTS...unbiased FACT and I think that THAT's what a journalist should do...post FACTS and not just one side of 'em issues but BOTH sides. I believe that there should be restrictions on abortions. I believe that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. I don't believe that people should rely only on the gov't to take care of them. There are "conservatives" who believe this and some "liberals" and "moderates" You champion behind the BLACK conservative veil...I don't! I don't consider myself either of them because I share similar views w/them all. You "seemed" intelligent enuff not play the "semantics game." Obviously, I was wrong. It was an incorrect assumption on my part. Ilk refers to ANYONE who agrees w/ur position...political affiliation mattered not. You chose to use ur "protect the black conservatives" pin and allowed that to be the driving force behind ur statements instead of doing the opposite. If that makes me a hypocrite...then admittedly..I'm that hypocrite. I shouldn't have to point out AGAIN that ur assumptions are just that --assumptions. They are no better or worse than mine. If I don't recall ur "moderate" positions then maybe they are few and far in between. You placed the blame where I don't think it should lie. Let's not blame politicians or the illegals..blame those in power and the last I checked...black was NOT it. For the record, O'Reilly does NOT want to round 'em up and send 'em back and neither does the current president. BUT there are some conservatives AND liberals who want to do just that. A hypocrite/liar + a hypocrite/liar...= a hypocrite/liar. MAybe that's what we both are. You were apparently offended by my use of the term "ilk"...well be like the great architects and build a bridge and get over it cuz it is what it is.

Name: DoctorSmooth

Comment: Well, MUSb.. you've proven yourself to be lacking in any class and decency. Apparently it's not in you to disagree and debate with someone on a board without using crass vulgarities. And think.. this all began because you attacked me based on a position you ASSUMED i had, yet even after I explained to you point blank that I dont take that particular position, that still wasnt enough for you. Rather than just keep your mouth shut and move on,you just decided to become more vile and obnoxious. Whatever, bro. I'll just take the high road, since you seem to be quite comfortable in the gutter. You want the last word? Go ahead, take it. I'm not going to debate you any more on this issue, and if you choose not to addreess me any more on this website, that would be fine with me. Peace.

Name: MDhornet

Comment: Well, I’m late on this one, but wanted to thank SpelmanR for once again being the lone voice of reason in the midst of the normal cacophony of foolishness usually posted on topics like this.

Name: xmrbx

Comment: I agree with Brother Phillips (not the first time)the Feds. are playing a game of distaction and our so-called Black are clueless what are a people to do?...stop whinning we need to start a movement for Black people the real working going to school tax paying BLACK PEOPLE.What is needed is a increse in the weages in the very job fields that Illegal Immigrants are working ...I know many Brothers who would love to work in the constrution field if the money was right ,their has not been a real increse in weages in over 10yrs.

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