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Name: poeticlyspkng

Comment: Mo, I'm with you on all accounts. The Tawana Brawley story from years ago lets us know that as much as we might like, we should not rush to judgement.

Name: Gemami

Comment: Another excellent piece. I agree there are too many variable to make a set opinion on this case. Like you said there's the Lacross teams side, the girl's side and then their the truth, with is a combination of the two. All we could ask for is the trust to come out and justice to be served.

Name: MER82

Comment: I don't imagine that its not hard for most women-Black in particular to go beyond race in this case. Men largely could never truly understand the severity and the destruction that rape can cause. Rape Trials have historically been biased based on race (Black men) as well as the victim's past. The reason people are up in arms about how this woman is described in the media is because regardless of what she was doing for a living, she claims that she is a victim of rape. A rape victim's reputation often gets raped again through the courts and media and this is a larger reason for the sensitivity to how she is addressed. Yes there are times when we discover the victim fabricated events, but there are a he11 of a lot more times when this is not the case as well. Its true, if we are to be objective about this, then we need to be open to all possibilites, not just AZZume that she is lying-why any woman would want to put herself in the negative limelight is beyond me.

Name: MorrisOKelly

Comment: I'd agree that the mere accusation of rape is detrimental to both the accusor and the accused. It's a no-win situation either way...but at the same time, if we are truly trying to be 'fair,' then the history of these cases should not have any 'bearing' or weight in determining this one. It may be true than historically the alleged victim was actually raped, but that has no bearing on this case specifically. The 'likelihood' of something being true because of past events is not the way to approach these incidents. Whoever is 'lying' in this situation should pay dearly. But I would hate to think that either party gets to benefit from lying also.

Name: Priceless

Comment: Morris, there is a lot of your article I agree with but on the issue of whether race plays any part here ... HELL YES! on the night in questions as well as other occasions those Lacrosse players have been heard hurling racial slurs and that is fact ... one of the neighbors did concur that he heard one of the playsers tell the young woman "Tell your grandfather I said thanks for the cotton shirt" and a few other comments like that ... I maintain that she excercised very poor judgement by going back to the house after that incident, but I also am waiting to see what all is presented and how this will play out

Name: MorrisOKelly

Comment: I know that 'race' is definitely a component of this case...we can assume on any day of the week those comments would be said. But let's just make sure our house is in order and then we can go forward with full force. What it comes down to...let's not our response be 'emotional.' We know those lacrosse players would likely make those types of remarks any day of the week, but let's not let that cloud our judgment in determining what actually happened. It's not a question of whether they're racists...it's a matter of whether they're rapists...and that one letter difference is huge in nature. We could easily convict on them being racists...but we must be careful about the rapist one. And if it turns out that the allegations are true, then by all means let all hell break loose.

Name: Renegade

Comment: So Morris, you said all that just to say "check with me after the trial"???? LMAO!!!

Name: Priceless

Comment: CTFU@Renegade ... that's what it sounds like

Name: MER82

Comment: I don't know, by the way of some folks on this board, smells like that old tired "Blame the victim" thing again. That because she was a stripper who for the love of money convinced herself it was okay to go back inside a house full of horny, drunk, white men, that it is plausible she could be lying. I would like to know what happened to the other dancer and whether she was Black or White but I guess we won't know all the facts until this case is brought to light...

Name: Exmun

Comment: MER82, The other dancer is Black. I was a snippet of an interview that Rita Crosby did with her. And although she is in shadow, it is clear that she is Black.

Name: Angel

Comment: MER82 - Both dancers initially left the house. The one alleging rape went back in the house. The other woman said she didn't feel safe so she left. Also, I agree with Morris O'Kelly that the truth is somewhere in the middle. For one, the woman was found passed out in someone else's car in a parking lot shortly after the incident took place, so something tells me she might not know what happened. Now, whether or not her passing out was due to her drinking or someone slipping her something has not been divulged, so at this point, it would be better to just wait for more details to come out.

Name: MorrisOKelly

Comment: Thank you Angel...couldn't have said it any better. There's a lot here that is 'fuzzy.' There isn't much that's clear and not up for debate. If she was impaired, how much and to what degree is relevant as much as how impaired the boys were and whether they contributed to it. I'm not saying wait until the trial is over, I'm just saying there's probably a bombshell or two or three that will drop that will swing our perception back and forth before it's over. I believe that both sides are holding out something significant and we'd be foolish to support either side purely on what we know so far. I'm not saying blame the victim, I'm not saying she might be lying because she was a stripper or that the woman is automatically telling the truth either. I'm saying this case is VERY strange and I'm sure there is material information that we as the general public are not getting. We'd be foolish to blindly back EITHER side in this matter. In truth, it should be easier for people to just wait and see. That's not turning your back on the woman, who is still the sympathetic figure here. That's just more a function of common sense. This whole situation smells bad and I'm not sure what to believe.

Name: Exmun

Comment: Unfortunately, we won't get the rest of the story for a while. And even when we do it will be told by the spin doctors. I agree with you Mo'. I'm cautious to take sides in a story that I have no idea what really happened. And, if we expect, for example, that a white jury should be able to determine fairly and objectively the guilt or innocence of a Black individual, we should be at least willing to see this story through its conclusion and not take sides on the basis of race. All in all, I do agree... there's got to be more to the story that what the DA is saying.

Name: MER82

Comment: Exmun...HUh? I hope for the woman's sake it is not an all white jury otherwise the case will be over before it started....but I have to say ya'll are killing me, you know its not that far-fetched to believe these white boys did this. Why is that so hard to imagine? All I know is the DA was pressed to move forward with something. Some people think the DA is pushing this case to win in order to stay in office. Race is always a factor in this country make no mistake-and in this case, its strange to me that a white DA would pursue this for a Black woman (particularly because Black women as a group, are consistently under-served and deemed non-essential in this country)-based on skimpy evidence and thinking he would win-in the South, no less. Its true, none of us know all of the facts, he11 we may never know the whole story. But remember, all we have heard at this point, is part of the Defense's argument. Naturally they want to spin their side in the public. We don't know what else the DA has on tap to be saying much of anything one way or another.

Name: MorrisOKelly

Comment: Agreed, the prosecution likely would not move forward without something up his sleeve that he thinks can prove his case beyond reasonable doubt...but that's only more ammunition for my argument. It's way too early to know how this is going to turn out either way. Just remember, the prosecution in the Kobe Bryant and Michael Jackson cases thought the same thing. Of course, celebrity is not an issue here...but in law you can count on two things and both depend on your perspective. For the prosecution, the absence of evidence (in this case DNA) doesn't mean evidence of 'absence' (as in absence of guilt). Also, from the defense side...indictments only mean that there evidence requirements have been met to move forward with a trial, not any likelihood of guilt necessarily. We haven't even reached the 'diclosure' portion of these proceedings when the real stuff will start coming out. At this point, all we have are the statements of the plaintiff, the defense and various witnesses, but not any cross-examination of this 'testimony' or evidence full-disclosure. Mark my words, there will be a huge bombshell that will drop that hasn't been revealed that will likely decide for everyone what they will believe. In the Kobe case it was the semen of the second person in the girl's underwear. In the Michael Jackson case arguably it was the string of alleged victims who said they were never victims of Michael Jackson...etc. There is always something major that happens during the trial. This will be no different.

Name: Kofi

Comment: One thing that is strange to me is 1) there was evidence consistent with a sexual azzault but no DNA. 2) The DA did not say the evidence excluded the Lacrosse team. It is possible she was raped with a foreign object. If she was found passed out, it would seem that medical personnel would conduct some type of tox screen to determine if drugs were involved. Date rape drugs tend to be quickly metabolized and leave the system. My point is like everyone else on the board, there are too many unanswered questions to make any type of judgement. Let me play devils advocate. What if two white strippers accused an all black college football team of rape? Would the board be so sympathetic toward the plight of those women?

Name: MorrisOKelly

Comment: I can only guess that condoms were used (assuming an %*$ault). Now rape also doesn't necessarily mean penile penetration so yes...foreign objects could also be in the equation. And you're right...one would have to wonder about any toxicology tests taken...and this information has probably not been made public yet.

Name: amethyst

Comment: There isn't anything in Morris' commentary or the posts that suggests anyone is "blaming the victim". The prevailing theme is "wait and hear the facts, then decide". I appreciate Morris making the point that Black folks should not automatically rush to judgment, operating off emotion rather than facts and common sense. We have had several instances in our history that demonstrate this (i.e. Tawanna Brawley, and recently Cynthia McKinney). We destroy our own credibility as a people when we instantly declare "Black is always right." That's no better than whites believing white is always right. Right and wrong have no color, gender or religious persuasion. I love my people and am down for the cause, as long as my people are doing the right thing. I will not sacrifice my reputation or resources for someone who is in the wrong, just because they are Black, my family member, soror, church member, etc. We need to hold our own accountable, just like we require for anyone else.

Name: amethyst

Comment: P.S. Kofi raises an interesting question: what if Black athletes were accused of %*$aulting a white woman? The race card would be played with Indy 500 speed. The "alleged" suspects would be arrested first and asked questions later, and whites would be raising heck (i.e. Aruba and Natalee Holloway). So, if Blacks exercise rational thinking instead of emotionalism regarding the Duke issue, perhaps we'll look more sensible and credible.

Name: MER82

Comment: Morris-your last post said it best.

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