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Name: recognizelife
Comment: Yo Mo, i am gonna check this out this weekend n c it for myself...i'll holla.
Name: TJthemilitant
Comment: A silly movie called Phat Girlz and Malcolm X..Where's the co-relation?..That being said, I hear the movie is fairly decent and I too plan on going to see it..But the truth is, you simply cannot make people like your product no matter how good YOU think it might be..I also think people are just plain ol' tired of being forced fed Monique's 'Oh I'm fat and I love me and your skinny azz had better love me too'!
Name: jab122
Comment: Good morning Folks, I am not sure how to take Nnegest's letter. While I truly understand her point and disappointment, it seems like she's chastising the Black community for not supporting her film. I for one have not seen the film, and that's in part because that type of comedy does not appeal to me and the marketing of the film did not pique my interest. But honestly, I would probably rent the movie. And while I know that won't bring about the same amount of revenue that seeing it in the theatre will, it could still demonstrate that the African American community is interested in the subject matter and does support the film, to some degree. Mo, I really liked your statement about art must come from the heart, because I think its so on point. Not every one will fully understand the product an artist puts out, however, it does not mean that there is not a level of appreciation for the craftmanship or the thoughts behind the work. From what I hear, I can identify with and appreciate the theme of the movie, however, its expression is just not making me want to shell out $9 for it, and that could be said whether the movie was from a white or Black filmaker.
Name: SpelmanRho
Comment: I concur with jab122. I just haven't been in the mood to see a relationship film right now. I will go see "Aakeelah and the Bee" because it's about black people and it's different. But "Phat Girlz" isn't peaking my interest right now. I'm sorry.
Name: poeticlyspkng
Comment: I must say that I don't feel bad in the least. If I was going to feel bad about not supporting this film, sight unseen just because it was made by a black person then I guess I should feel bad about all the other black owned stuff that I don't support. All of it ain't good. Thank your peers in the industry for that. We have seen enough Booty Calls, Soul Planes et al to last us a lifetime. We have seen a lot of your star Monique and she has pretty much played the same role in all her films. This is no different than buying music. After shelling out money for crap more than once and getting the same lame product, you quit supporting that artis's records unless you're a diehard fan and glutton for punishment. Where I live, only one person that I know has seen it, so word of mouth is not working here. She said it was okay and there was a lot of cussing that was later addressed. "Okay" is not motivation to shell out $$ to see a film, black or otherwise. But that's just me. There are stories that I would love to see in a movie. One need only look at the best selling books among black women to see where their interests lie. Please, go back to the drawing board and try again. That's how it goes in life, dust yourself off and try again. It serves no purpose to lay the burden of guilt on those who did not rush out, whatever their reason.
Name: chrislrob
Comment: I agree with a lot of what is being said here. But she doesn't "seem" to be chastizing the community for not supporting her flick, she flat out "is"! And I understand her pain. I am often frustrated by the movies AND the music we support. But you know what? People go to the movies to be entertained, not because they "ought to" or to learn something. A conscious filmmaker's job is to entertain WHILE educating. And in the end, SOMEBODY we all know saw this movie. How many of us had that person say, "You gotta go see it!"? I personally was turned off early on because Mo'nique can be very funny, but you know what? She ain't P-H-A-T, phat, she's F-A-T, fat. She's gi-normous, and I don't think morbid obesity can be a positive image. Nor do I think you should embrace it, work it, and wait for a Nigerian guy to come along and worship it. It's always struck me like "workin' being a diabetic or Tourette's Syndrome--you @#$!*& go, girl! Now if you're fat, should you hate yourself? No. I could stand to lose some pounds and I think I'm a'ight brother. But I don't think it's a "feature", either. I'm frankly glad that a bunch of black people didn't go out and support a movie that glorified one of our number one health problems. But I wish the filmmaker and Mo'nique, well.
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: As a writer who hopes to one day see my work on film, I understand her pain. However, I am also a consumer and I don't like Monique enough to pay $10 to see her lick face cream off her face because it is made of avocado = not funny. I also don't think that a movie about an African dude chasing a "big-boneded" sista is realistic, entertaining, educational or funny. It is corny and stereotypical. So, however much I may feel for this woman as a fellow artist, it seems that whatever her original intent - it got distorted and we ended up with Monique. I saw "Something New" and didn't like that either because Sanaa Lathan's character was totally unlikable. I kept trying to figure out why this adorable lil white boy fell for such a b****. And I love Sanaa Lathan so it is no reflection on her. I think she was directed to play the character like that, which is unfortunate.
Name: chrislrob
Comment: queenie, Actually, the avocado face cream thing is kinda funny! It's just also kind of sad, too. Like on "The Parkers". I was always embarrased for her character. And you're right,it does all seem kinda corny, huh?
Name: JamerDelta
Comment: Soror, I truly hope that you are reading these posts because I think they are very much on point and keep trying to make a film from your heart that will also appeal. I will tell you as someone that has worked in marketing for years, please pay more attention to the title of future films as well as your star and any stereotypes that may be displayed in the marketing. I had no desire to see the film based on the slangy title and from Monique's persona and the fact that only a foreigner could appreciate her--too formulaic in certain ways. I do applaud your tenacity and wish you luck in future endeavors.
Name: McNasty
Comment: I won't take anything away from Monique she is one helluva stand up comic and can act enough to have had a sitcom and several okay movies. I wasn't interested in the storyline. Big girls aren't having problems finding love or sex and if you don't know that native african men and indian men like big women then you need more than this movie for enlightement. I don't appreciate being referred to as pseudo conscious (although I won't take it personally, sistah had to say something) simply because I didn't want to see this movie and sistah girl is just gonna have to chalk this one up to her own narrow mindedness.
Name: DOne
Comment: I think part of the problem with this film may have been the marketing. As the writer, she wouldn't have control over the marketing. Studios often market films in a manner that's deceptive. I've seen several films that was marketed as comedies, but was rather serious. The studio obviously didn't have faith in the subject matter to bring in an audience so they marketed as just another ghetto comedy based on the sterotype that this is what blacks want to see. For example, I've heard that ATL is actually a very good movie, but it was marketed as just another boyz in the hood knockoff because that want they think we want to see.
Name: Pammy
Comment: Two things kept me from seeing this movie. #1 Monique. I can't stand her as a comedian or actress. #2. The marketing campaign told me all I needed to see. I co-sign with Poet because he's right, who wants to spend $10 (I'm in NY) to see a movie about the same crap I can see Monique do when I catch her on some comedy special. I'm sure there are some real actresses who are overweight that could have given this movie some credibility.
Name: AlwaysaDem
Comment: I co-sign with Pammy...your comments were on point for sure. I feel for the young sister and really hope she keeps doing her thing, but she might want to choose another lead actress next time because Mo'Niques "I'm P.H.A.T not FAT" schtick has been real old for a while.
Name: OneShot
Comment: I probably have this saying wrong, but here goes....Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door. Well, not if they don't know you made a better mouse trap. This, as other posters have said, boils down to marketing. The marketing presented this movie as a farce and a mockery of larger women. Now, granted I haven't seen the movie but it was a turn off for me because I believe there is a difference between being "thick" and being morbidly obese. I hope in the future that your have more commercial success and I am sorry for your disappoint. Regardless of what I think of the movie (which I haven't seen) I do not wish for anyone's dreams to die. Good luck to you.
Name: beegirl
Comment: It must suck to work hard on something and put it out there and no one goes to see it, so I feel for her. That being said, nobody owes you anything. You took a chance, people weren't interested, deal with it. I know you're reading, and I know that sounds harsh, but you need to stop playing the blame game and just try again. Maybe your next film will speak to more members of our community. All black people don't like the same things or even have the money to rush out and see every black film that is made. Next time, try to make sure your marketing and your message sync up and you might attract a bigger audience. But fussing out your target demographic is not going to endear you to anyone. Plenty of films are bombing right now. That's life.
Name: DCGG
Comment: Typical arrogant African attitude towards black americans - why didn't she address her very own African breathren who didn't support this piece of garbage? How dare she - evoke the name of Malcolm for this. Alas life, you win some, you loose some but you get back up and try again - but playing the blame game is pathetic at best and might deter any future endeavors she have...
Name: Mememe
Comment: instead of laying blame to the black community, Likke should have used some of that verve in marketing "her prized project!" People were disinterested, because of the star, the films name and with a release so close to " Something New," which didn't do well, in the Box office, doomed this similar flick. Monique needs to rethink her role, because a serious actress, she is not!
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: I want to stay 'out' of this conversation as I've already said my piece and I'm more interested in your collective commentary...but I also want to forward the conversation... The prevailing sentiment I hear is that the marketing of the movie did not in your collective eyes make it an appealing movie to see. Then...if that is true, what was 'appealing' about the marketing or the supposed 'acting' of the lead in 'Get Rich or Die Tryin'...? If we apply the same litmus test to all movies, regardless of storyline, there's a contradiction here it would seem. Any takers?
Name: Calidee
Comment: What is wrong with supporting Black people for the sake of supporting each other, especially if that person is new and is trying to do something good or different? This is her first film. Let's give her a break. If we don't support her who will? Black people are very proud of the accomplishments of Spike Lee. However, Spike's first film was totally different from the usual "Black" films. White people supported that film, not Blacks. Because of that support Spike had the opportunity to create some great and some not so great films. The key issue is that he got an opportunity. Can you imagine where Spike Lee would be today if he had to depend on his own people for support of his first film effort? Look at Tyler Perry. The success of his first 2 films has now made it possible for him to create projects that are hopefully different from Madea. The resources are now available to him and we can now let him know the type of prjects that we want to see. The point I'm trying to make is that sometimes we have to give each other a break so that we can take advantage of opportunities that are available to us. As people gain expereince we can then expect more from them.
Name: yunvme
Comment: Morris- no one went to see "Get Rich" either.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Get Rich did considerably better at the B.O. I'll get the stats real quick.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Get Rich totalled 32 million domestically.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Well said Calidee...I agree completely.
Name: TJthemilitant
Comment: Mo, 32 million?.....Where? In video sales?..The movie was yanked after what, 3 weeks?..I live in Pittsburgh where the "First" murder that was so called related to the film occured..Didn't hear a peep about the movie since.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/boxoffice/weekend/2006/01/2 9/ I'm not making this stuff up. It may have been pulled in your market after 3 weeks, but it wasn't pulled around the country.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: And that's ONLY box office...not DVD rentals or sales.
Name: DCGG
Comment: Why does this have to be a "blacks don't support their own issue" vs the movie just not being interesting? Calidee - so I should go out blindly following and supporting any and everything black just because it's black regardless of content, value, etc? Gimme a break that shyt was cute in the 60's but this is 2006...
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: The question is then...DCGG, did you support Something New...Antwone Fisher...Soul Plane...Get Rich or Die Tryin...I would be curious to know which of those movies you saw in the movie theater. Your answer would either prove her point or yours.
Name: yunvme
Comment: Diana Ross once said something that has always stuck with me. She accepts responsibilty for both successes and failures. I think this directer needs to own up to the fact that no one was interested in this movie. Period. It doesnt matter how it was marketed. We all know the content of the movie without even seeing it. I like Monique, but the whole skinny girl/fat girl thing, although it might be her meal ticket (pun intended), is no longer funny and quite tired.
Name: McNasty
Comment: Morris O when Monique looks as good nekkid as fiddy did I'll stand in line all night long for her!
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: To Yunvme: "We all know the content of the movie without even seeing it." That is actually MORE true of the other movies like 'Get Rich' that 'we' so blithely support. I don't have a problem with what anyone is saying as that is your opinion. But there is a glaring contradiction here that nobody is really addressing. If we applied the above litmus test to every Black movie out there...there's NO reason not to support movies like Antwone Fisher, and Something New...just for starters. So it's nice to 'say' that, but that isn't how we collectively act...because we routinely go and see stuff we KNOW EXACTLY how it's going to go. Things we've invariably seen before.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Alright...moving the conversation forward. Is anyone willing to tell me that 'Baby Boy' by John Singleton wasn't 'Boyz in the Hood' part two? Is anyone telling me we didn't already know how THAT story was going to go? Is anyone going to tell me that THAT story was one that Black people were clamoring for? Think about that one.
Name: SpelmanRho
Comment: MoK: But 50's flick was marketed to his fans and to the hip hop market that is similar to his fan base. It was Mr. Jackson's success in the music industry that created a foothold for him in the movie market. Plus the movie was aggressively marketed. More so than "Phat Girlz". Now, I would never go to see "Get Rich...." the movie's not for me. Unfortunately I wasn't interested in "Phat Girlz" right now. I'm not making a value judgment, the story just isn't one I'm interested in right now. I'm just over saturated with romantic-comedies right now. I wasn't in the mood to see another one. If the movie isn't a romantic comedy then that goes back to the problem of it's marketing. Plus as another poster mentioned, Hollywood in general isn’t putting out anything much of interest right now, (except “Thank you for Smoking” that sounds interesting). Why not a black film noir or a quirky ensemble piece ? I think the audience she’s looking for will support black projects that strike new ground (or ground rarely visited about us) or familiar subject matter with an interesting spin. We might be race conscious, but we’re also connoisseurs.
Name: Exmun
Comment: Morris, I'll take on your question directly. You asked "what was 'appealing' about the marketing or the supposed 'acting' of the lead in 'Get Rich or Die Tryin'...?" To that I will answer that the marketing in "Get Rich..." told us what the movie was about. From how the director of Phat Girlz is sounding, the marketing of her movie did NOT tell us what her movie was supposedly about. If your a fifty cent fan, you went to see the movie eyes wide open knowing what you were about to see. The marketers on the Phat Girlz film appear to want to "dupe" us into seeing a film that (according to the director/writer ) was not what they advertised it to be. How lame. When I want to go out to see a "romantic comedy" (The Wedding Planner, Hitch, My Best Friend's Wedding), I know what I'm going to see. They advertise it as such and I choose to go IF I'm interested. It doesn't sound like that kind of advertising happened in Phat Girlz... and that's not my fault as a moviegoer. Plus, even if they advertised it as it really was and I wasn't interested, isn't that the "market" forces at working telling Hollywood that we didn't want to see this film at this time?
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Baby Boy grossed...(back in 2001) 28,734,552 domestically. Somebody please address these glaring contradictions.
Name: yunvme
Comment: Morris.....man- u gonna make me say it? Dont nobody want to pay money to see a fat black woman make a fool out of herself. There, I said it (now running to the free for all board)
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Thank you Exmun...that's a REAL answer.
Name: beegirl
Comment: Morris, you forget that Get Rich had a larger market demographic than Phat Girlz. White people would stay away from anything too "niche" seeming for black people, and I think many non-obese black women even felt left out. Knowing Monique's comedy stylings, I don't need to hear about how I'm evil for two hours on my $10. A film staring 50 Cent appeals to all people who enjoy his music and crosses color lines because his fan base includes members of all races. Plus, 50 is just a bigger star than Monique, hands down. If you know this filmmaker personally, you might be more sympathetic to her plight. But to me (I don't know her from Eve), she comes across as a whiney baby who is just mad because her community didn't make her a millionaire out the gate. The "If you build it, they will come" mentality does not apply to reality. Sorry.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: To Yuvnme... But 'we' will pay to see Martin Lawrence or Tyler Perry dress up as fat Black women and make fools of themselves? Hmmm...
Name: yunvme
Comment: hmmm. good one. The only thing I can say is that they are funny.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: "A film staring 50 Cent appeals to all people who enjoy his music and crosses color lines because his fan base includes members of all races." Yeah, but that still contradicts these other 'reasons' put forth by people as to why THAT movie was supported and Phat Girlz was not. First it was about the marketing, then it was about the supposed acting/comedic ability of Mo'Nique. I'm saying the rules seemingly keep changing. I'm not personally vested in this...but I do see that there were standards applied to Phat Girlz that weren't even in the equation for obviouisly lesser movies in terms of content or message or acting ability. That's all I'm saying.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: To beegirl...What is more 'niche' than anything Madea-related? That is pure Black experience through and through. Again, inconsistencies.
Name: yunvme
Comment: Morris- sometimes things are just not appealing. This was one of them.
Name: SpelmanRho
Comment: I think you're comparing apples to oranges here because a lot of the movies you've mentioned had some other connection to bolster people's interest. "Baby Boy" had the hippty hop culture to support it. "Antoine Fisher" had Denzel fans to support it. With films made by new directors or those with out a core loyal following there has to be either a compelling story line or an actor with a loyal fan base to propel it and I'm afraid this film had neither. I saw "Hotel Rwanda" and "Crash" not only because of the content but because I really respect Don Cheadle and wanted to support his projects. Nothing about "Phat Girlz" elicited a similar response for me (and for many others it seems).
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: "Diary of a Mad Black Woman" is anything BUT mainstream in its marketing or intended audience. From title to content to even marketing (it wasn't marketed much in mainstream outlets).
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: But Antwone Fisher was NOT supported...even with Denzel, that's my point.
Name: yunvme
Comment: Also, the title was offensive. Think of all the brothas with fat girlfriends that decided not to take them to see this movie to protect their feelings. Think about all the fat girls who didnt go with their friends because they didnt want to sit through fat girl jokes all night.
Name: SpelmanRho
Comment: It wasn't? I thought it did well in the Box office. But maybe that's because everyone I knew saw it multiple times and has a copy of it. What did the film gross ?
Name: yunvme
Comment: thats at least 1/3 of the potential audience that stayed away.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Antwone Fisher's domestic B.O. is listed at: $21,078,145 You be the judge.
Name: McNasty
Comment: Why does it have to be a contradiction that some were turned off by the marketing and others just weren't interested in the content. I went to see fiddy's movie because I was curious - I'm not curious about Monique or Phat Girlz and their romantic notions - that's fluff to me. Why can't folk go see movies they want to see simply for their entertainment value? That's usually why I go - when I saw the trailors for this movie I was no more inclined to see it than I was to see Baby Boy or Soul Plane. I also believe a lot of young girls went to see Baby Boy for the eye candy aspect - Tyrese. Various reasons - but this director is guaranteed to not get a large crowd and especially after her open letter.
Name: beegirl
Comment: Well said, Spelman. Mo, I would argue that the Madea movies have another niche: black Christians (or maybe even progressive Christians of other groups), who might not go out and see other movies but would rally behind one with a religious theme, no matter how slight. Listen, there isn't just one thing that doomed Phat Girls. It was a compilation: the title (who has said "phat" since 1997?), the star, the marketing (which obviously didn't betray what the filmmaker intended or it would have included more about what the film was actually about), and the fact that it opened the same weekend as Scary Movie 4, a well-known franchise. Some people find Martin Lawrence funnier than MoNique. Some people like hood movies better than comedies. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why people didn't see Phat Girlz. They just didn't. Your friend needs to brush her shoulders off and move on.
Name: beegirl
Comment: And, actually, I don't want to get into the habit of having to justify to ANYONE how I spend my time or money. Homegirl can take me off the list to see her next film too.
Name: yunvme
Comment: If the director is reading these messages. I say number one, congratulations on achieving, and fulfilling a dream. Secondly, live and learn. Keep on moving. Commercial success is not what will make you happy in life. Its setting out to do/ accomplish goals. Then you move on to the next one.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Beegirl...I'll say this in closing. If you don't see something inherently wrong with the 'preference' of 'Hood Movies' or ones which are DECIDEDLY less positive, and arguably less funny and come to these decisions having NOT seen Phat Girlz...and even still complain about the lack of diversity in Hollywood both in front and behind the camera...I don't know what to say. 'We' can't have it both ways. 'We' can't on one day complain that there aren't enough Black stories being told out there and at the same time not give meaningful ones the time of day. If you find that Phat Girlz didn't have anything 'meaningful' to offer you...at least be consistent enough to apply that same standard elsewhere and not support the true garbage that comes out. At least be consistent that's all I ask...and not complain about being underrepresented later on especially. What disappoints me most is that there will come a time in which many of these female posters will wonder why there aren't more Black, female directors and will forget their sentiments expressed on this occasion. The best remark I heard was about Spike Lee. His best and most important work was ahead of him and some people had enough foresight to realize this fact. But like I said originally, foresight can be 20/10. Thank you guys (and gals) for the spirited conversation.
Name: beegirl
Comment: No one says "homegirl" either, but I couldn't be bothered to look up the spelling of her name. Too lazy. ha ha.
Name: beegirl
Comment: Mo, I don't know why you addressed that to me. I never said it was better for people to like hood movies than comedies. But their preferences are their preferences. They don't need to explain them to me or you or anyone. And hopefully the black female filmmakers of the future will realize that their fellow black women aren't interested in movies like Phat Girlz and give us something else. I wish this director much success, but her letter left a bad taste in my mouth.
Name: Gemami
Comment: Mo’K, stop bumping you head against a wall, most people don’t get it. I said before and I’ll say it again, we complain too much and support too little. We complain we are tired of films about gangsters, pimps and hoes, silly comedies and predictable love stories that feature the same actors/actresses, yet when something new and different comes along we do not support. My biggest problem is with the complaint that “no one want to see a fat girl” but we run to see a Black man in drag over dramatize the attributes and mannerisms of an overweight Black women? Why are characters like Madea and Big Momma acceptable and funny but Monique, who happens to be overweight, generates so my animosity? Someone please enlighten me.
Name: yunvme
Comment: Its not really that deep. NOBODY wanted to see the dayum movie. Nothing against Monique, or the director.
Name: amethyst
Comment: I saw "Phat Girlz" and I appreciated the meaningful messages along with the comedy. I understand what posters are saying about the marketing. When movie ads don't appeal to me I don't see them, either. I only saw "ATL" the same weekend because the Tom Joyner Show hosts said it was good, and it was. Nnegest, don't take it personal, business is business. In these days of $3.00/gallon gas, everyone is careful about how we spend our money. We are diverse and intelligent people who should make thoughtful choices, such as running from "Girl 6" and "Soul Plane". If we see every movie just because it exists, how could products have value? Stay true to yourself and keep moving forward. We don't always achieve the desired outcome the first time around. Much Delta Love, Soror
Name: Exmun
Comment: Perhaps, there is also an oversimplification of the Black-not-into-hip hop-killin'-movies demographic that causes issues for Hollywood marketers. IMO, to say that any movie made by a Black Director/writer that is not directly targeted to the hip hop crowd (e.g. "Get Rich...") will reel in the rest of us is myopic in a lot of ways. Personally, like our politics, I think the "psuedo-conscious" crowd (as described by the Phat Girlz director) is not given due credit for the diversity among us. This is evident in politics, media, life. The powers that be think "oh... you don't like "50" so it automatically means you LUV Sanaa Lathan... or "you like Denzel... so you'll luv Will Smith or Don Cheadle." To me there's more diversity of thought and opinion that lies within us "psuedo-conscious"-not-into-the-hip-hop-mess crowd than we're given credit for. Some of us are liberal about certain things... some are not. Some of us like BMWs some Explorers... some neither. Some of us like over-the-top stuff... some like it subtle. Some like comedies... some don't. Some like Sharpton... some Jesse... some both... some neither. Bottom line, despite the fact that the overal numbers of us may not compare relative to say White America... there is considerable diversity there. And that means for those jockeying for our dollars... be it movies, music, household goods, etc, you would do well to recognize that you are not going to succeed with a one-size-fits-all approach. I read something in yesterdays article on TD Jakes' new movie distribution deal with Sony that justifies my point. In that story the Sony executive describes a market segment called the "Black inspirational genre." If he is basing movies on this supposed niche segment, then he will undoutedly see some films do well and others do not so great, because he will be a victim to his own simplification.
Name: Pammy
Comment: There is no way in the world I'm going to see a movie that I have no interest in. Be it Get Rich or The Color Purple. Be it Spike Lee or Steven Spielberg. Exmun, I totally agree with your accessment.
Name: amethyst
Comment: Mo, what is "meaningful" to one person may not be to another. Our experiences, interests, beliefs, etc. determine what appeals to and affects us. For example, I'm not into hip-hop and 50's movie didn't appeal to me, but it might have been meaningful to someone else. We don't all relate to the same things.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Aw Soror...therein lies the problem. Our perception of what truly is 'meaningful' is arguably so skewed and antithethical to our needs as a collective body...I challenge the decision-making process of many of us. Of course, it's your money to do with it as you please, as was the case with the prodigal son. Free will, doesn't necessarily mean good choices. We may not all relate to the same things but it is worthy of discussion as to why we relate more to things that aren't beneficial and derogatory in nature. Being able to 'relate' to Fiddy is more alarming to me than anything, much less a good explanation. People shoot people all the time, that's a fact...but I'd be more concerned as to how and why it got to that point, and that's the point I'd like to bring out here. Our choices are suspect and whimsical in nature. How did we get here?
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: Morris..I understand ur utter frustration. But, u will not get the answer ur looking 4. Maybe u didn't want to say it but I will...we are BIASED, we are INCONSISTENT/HYPROCRITES. Ok, there u have it! I loved Soul Plane for what it was, saw The Cookout but did NOT see any of the Madea goes to Mexico franchises. Would NOT see Get Rich cuz I don't like 50's persona. Didn't see Some'n New cuz I just didn't. No plans on seeing Phat Girlz cuz it just didn't interest me. For some it was poor advertising, for others it was becuz they don't like Monique, for others......for others..for others. Now most people will probably jump on the "advertising" bandwagon because it sounds good when the real reason was probably a lil far from that. Morris I see u have a specific interest in THIS film but I question...did u write an article promoting RIZE as u had w/this one. It was a GREAT documovie..BUT no one I know had seen it but me...just wondering?
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: I did NOT write on RIZE (and did see it). I felt it sent some very mixed messages in terms of the very young girls who were dancing suggestively and seemingly these young people spent all day and night dancing and there wasn't any indication of educational or vocational goals. I remembered thinking...does anything care to think about what to do after 'we' stop dancing? That was why I didn't take the film under my wing. I wasn't too sure where I came out on it. And also, that film arguably had only a local appeal to it as it dealt with the L.A. dance scene primarily.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Around the office we debated (me and but the big T. over here and others) as to the messages and meaning of RIZE. Cinematically and as an adult I liked the movie, but I was concerned how young people would not be able to separate the art from the reality of the fact that these people's lives arguably just peaked with that movie...and what's next for them? White producer and director, but who else benefitted?
Name: TRTR
Comment: This was a really good movie. Those of you who haven't seen it should do so before judging it. Unfortunately, however, the marketing of it was what went wrong. Instead of marketing it as the stereotypical "dying for sex overweight woman," it should have been marketed as the romantic and being true to self (from the physical to the professional) film that it is. The romance between the Mo'Nique and her male lead has plenty of chemistry and the intimacy they end up sharing is presented in a very special way that you don't normally get in films about romance in general -- and specifically about Black love. But if you're not open to seeing it, then you'll surely miss it.
Name: CrzyLdy16
Comment: I think Monique being the lead might have turned off quite a few people along with the marketing and showing her cracking "skinny jokes." She does play the same old part and I think that was a factor in the box office. I have not seen it yet, and after reading the commentary here, I will view it to make up my own mind. I loved Something New and it was much more than a black/white love story. So I'll give this one a chance.
Name: reflection
Comment: I applaud Morris for printing the letter from the director but it's unfortunate that she feels so disheartened by the feedback. With any form of media, there are going to be people who support your endeavor and those who don't. But as long as you are following your dream and you feel like you are on the right track, isn't that what really matters? Black people have different tastes just like any other group and there is no one movie that is going to appeal to all of us;whether it's a "hood movie" an "intellectual movie" or anything in between. Furthermore, just because someone black produced a movie,c.d. etc. doesn't mean that all blacks must categorically support that particular effort but rather you should support the mindset that people pursue their dreams
Name: Exmun
Comment: I hope I'm wrong, but isn't the pink elephant in the room that the director/writer of Phat Girlz put HER OWN money into the film. So she has more of a stake than your typical "non-financing"/get paid come hell or high water director. She has a financial interest beyond her reputation and ability/credibility to get another film greenlighted. Isn't that what's going on?
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: The movie was financed mostly by one of the same producers as 'Training Day' Bobby Newmyer who mortgaged his own houses to finance the film. Unfortunately he passed prior to the finishing of the film and its release.
Name: brainuser1
Comment: Well, I must admit, this has been a truly spirited conversation; and to actually get Mo' to chime in beyond his initial story is priceless. Let me say that these are some of the most intelligent posts I've seen on the EUR in a long time. So I suppose Mo's choice to bring this writer's open letter to the forefront was a good one (although as a writer I am still unsure about HIM posting his arguments here. You wrote your story D...mit! Now be quiet and let the people speak now. But I'll get over it.). I do want to address what you cited as contradictions" though. You took a dozen different perspectives in your quest for continuity. The fact that there was none should show you that, artistically, its just the luck of the draw. People can't always explain why one thing works and another doesn't. They just do...or don't. But does anyone remember the quote (and I'm paraphrasing here) "A white person can walk into a room and be seen as an individual; but a Black person walking in represents an entire race." I have heard so many "WE don't do this" and "Our value system is so skewed" I could puke. WE are guilt-tripped on every decision we make or don't make. Its another form of self-hate that I just hope and pray will die out one day soon. So many have said it here, "why do WE have to justify what we choose to spend our money on?" Honey, money is a race of its own. To this Writer-Director: I'm glad you wrote your open letter because it was probably a very therapeutic move for you; albeit not a wise one. Although many of your points are truthful to some extent; especially with people judging harshly what they haven't even seen, you sounded bitter and blameful and I fear you may have distanced some of your future audience. People still have a hard time when it comes to forgiving...and forgetting. First-time movie-making success is a rarity; just like first time book authors. Its one under your belt. You've conquered a milestone. It took Oprah how long to become the phenomenon she is today? The first thing we learn as artists is be true to yourself. The second, be in tune with your audience. Hopefully, this experience has not blocked the lessons you were put here to learn.
Name: AlexG159
Comment: First of all, the director, before attacking the black audience, should have a few choice words for Fox Searchlight. They did a lousy job promoting the movie. I didn't see any street advertising or TV ads for the film, which were most likely only restricted to BET. (Sorry but not every black person in America watches BET.) The film also was not screened in advance to any film critic in the country, so as a result there were no reviews for the film the day it opened in any newspaper. When a studio refuses to screen a film for critics in adavnce, it's always a sign that they think the film is a loser and doomed to fail at the box office. Not even Roger Ebert who himself is married to a large black woman and might have been sympathetic for Phat Girlz, reviewed the film for his newspaper. In fact most of the reviews I've read so far have been at best mixed, some good, some bad. There was positive review for the film that just appeared in this week's Chicago Reader, much too late to help the film. Blame the studio for not pushing the film before it's release. Second, Mo'Nique basically has a limited appeal. Not everybody loves her, especially ME. I couldn't watch The Parkers once even if you paid me. I've seen her stand-up act and she has to be the most annoying, unfunniest comics around today. In fact, her routine seems more of one of self hatred and anger than insight. Like how many times can she say "skinny %*$!(es" in a 30 minutes? She says "%*$!(es" more times that 20 rap CDs put together. Considering Morris has problems with rappers degrading women, it's surprising that he seemingly has no propblem with Mo'Nique's anti-women rants in her act. Also, isn't the film hypocritical? It's supposed to be a movie about accepting yourself and loving your body no matter what it looks like, but Mo'Nique's character in the film goes nuts over some good looking hunk with cut abs? Wait a minute...I thought the film was about how looks aren't that important? How about if she fell in love with a guy who wasn't all the good looking or even just average? And let's face it O.K.? It's a movie about FAT CHICKS! I admit it up front. I'm a guy and I'm superficial and I don't want to see a movie about FAT CHICKS! Especially one that trying to convince me that fat chicks are sexy and beautiful. I've see this still a few times from the film with Mo'Nique in a bathing suit (PLEASE!) standing next to some cutie wearing a wide hat with a SMOKING hot killer body (anybody know her name?) and I keep saying to myself, I wish the film was about her instead. Then maybe I would have had a reason to go see it.
Name: chrislrob
Comment: Dang, Alex. That's about as good a summary for my side as I can imagine. I hope Morris responds to this. It demands an answer.
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: Morris, I'm not exactly sure what mixed messages it was sending re: the girls dancing suggestively. You wondered what was the value in these people spending all day/night dancing when there was no indication of education or vocational goals? Well, guess what? It's a reality for a lot of people. I don't think the film was intended to have such a fairtyale-like ending like most movies. It was urban, hard and sometimes gritty. It showed what people from such urban settings "chose" to do in order to stay off the streets. Did you note what the dancers said they "would" be doing if they weren't dancing? Instead of gangbanging, selling drugs, using drugs, they put all their energy into dancing. Absent of a fairytale-like "one person moves out of the hood and becomes a success" film it showed that the struggle still remained cuz at the end of the day they were still in the hood. Sure, it would've been nice to see what happened AFTER the film but not all films give us that. A number of films have us guessing "what's next" but we tune into the sequel neway. As far as only having a local appeal, don't most movies appeal to certain subsects of society? Isn't this the same case w/Phat Girlz. I've never been fat, never had a fat girl, don't have ne fat friends, and don't have ne friends who've dated a fat girl. So, I can't relate to anything that a fat person goes through in their quest for love nor those who like them. Yet, the argument is that we should've looked a bit closer for the deeper meaning. Uhm..ok. Phat girl overcoming her insecurities and finding love vs. urban kids using "dance" as their outlet for expression. The former involved actors..the latter real people. I showed the film RIZE to my lil mentoring group and to my surprise..they loved it! But aye, they're from the hood so I guess I can see y it appealed to them...Oh well..it is what it is.
Name: mocha
Comment: Phat Girlz was a good movie. It was interesting to see an honest protrayal of a fat person and the hurt they endure as children and throughout their lives. The African actors were awesome and the story dealt with a lot of the assumptions we make about African men. From my personal experience, I have been treated like a queen by my African male friends as opposed to a doormat by my African American ex husband. There is a musical in ATL right now called UMOJA from South Africa. When it comes to your town please see it. It will show you how differently bigger, thicker women are regarded in African culture than here in the USA. It will also make you very proud to be of African descent. I am not fat, in fact I am 36-24-36 and I am so proud of the big girls doing their thing with pride. Just be healthy, live your life and pursue your dreams. Never settle for less. That is what Phat Girlz taught me and you should at least rent it before you judge it.
Name: jab122
Comment: Dang, so many comments, I just don't know where to begin. Just as an aside, Mo' for someone who says he's going to stay out of the conversation, you sure have been busy typing these past two days =). I'm trying really hard to come up with a comment that hasn't previously been said, but that's going to be kinda difficult. In short, how many white producers come out to their communities crying foul because their work was not widely viewed?? Not many! Our friend the director needs to take note of the comments expressed here in this forum, learn from them and move on!! There are many mainstream movies out there that don't get much viewership or much critical acclaim but are actually good. I saw Lord of War and I thought it very insightful and entertaining, but I don't think that movie grossed much; and I certainly don't recall its director crying and moaning about it. So why do we feel the need to do the same??? I'm a bit tired of folks thinking of the African American community as so monolithic that anything with a Black face should immediately appeal to us, or speak to/for us. Its simply not true. I think Tyler Perry movies are trite depictions of Black folk and I only see them on DVD IF THERE IS NOTHING ELSE AVAILABLE!! I didn't see get rich, but did see Antoine Fisher because the movie seemed somewhat inspirational. I am so tired of seeing our folks clowning, ho-ing and gang-banging on the screen, but it doesn't mean that I am going to go and see PHAT GIRLS (because it doesn't necessarily contain these elements),for lack of other Black options!!! Instead I'd rather keep myself at home, and read a book, most likely from an African American author. After all, reading is fundamental, you know!
Name: chrislrob
Comment: Mocha, I probably shouldn't say it, but I will. My big beautiful African-American mother was treated like a queen by her African man, too. Until she married him and he got his green card. Now is that everyone? No. But my experience has been that there is a lot of contempt for African-Americans in general and African-American women IN PARTICULAR amongst Africans in America. Again, is that everyone? No. But this idea that all fat girls need to do is find themselves an African man and they'll be good is...incorrect. And American brothers like their women plenty big, don't you think? 'Cause girl you know that "36-24-36" sounds like the combination to the lock of my HEART and that ain't small! LOL! Finally, I'm not picking on you and I hope this doesn't come out harsher than I intend, but do you really fail to realize the TRUE distinction between all of these African men that haven't had you and treat you like a queen and the African-American man that has had you and treated you like...less than a queen ?
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: To Alex: I wouldn't say Mo'Nique is 'anti-women' in her rants, that would be a disingenuous statement. Her comedy yes is built upon making fun of skinny women, but that's not the same as being 'anti-women.' So no, it's not hypocritical in my estimation. As for 'staying out of the conversation.' For the most part I have. I've repeatedly interjected to get people to address certain points and move the conversation forward as to movie attendance inconsistency, but that's about it. I haven't provided any 'viewpoint' about the movie or its marketing or its star. So in that respect, I've been outside of the conversation. I've only tried to make sure that it went BEYOND those points.
Name: dcdouglass01
Comment: 'Preciate the debate/dialogue, Mr. O'Kelly. As far as movies go, here's my personal spin. I see about 15-20 movies per year. I'm first drawn in by the marketing. If I feel that, I next look for a review. And I pretty much always insist on a review because--- after seeing a few movies based on my own perception of whether I thought they would be as entertaining as the marketing hinted at, and later discovering I was wrong and actually walking out of a few movies before the half-way point ("Blank Man" with Damon Wayan comes to mind)---I feel reviews are necessary. As far as "Phat Girlz" goes, the studio refused to allow it to be widely reviewed by critics before its release. That's a red flag for me, so although I had some mild interest in the comedy content of the movie, I passed on the opening weekend. Later, after reading some reviews online AFTER its release, it sounded as if it would be an OK movie. Plus the lady I'm dating now likes comedies, so I penciled it into our agenda. But still it wasn't a top priority as far as movies go because Mo'nique comes across a little caustic sometimes, so that was another disconnect for me. Long story short, still haven't seen it yet, but probably will eventually (DVD or movie channel). My advice as far as improving box office out-tha'-box would have been to let it be widely reviewed prior to release. A word on "Get Rich or Die Tryin'": I did see that movie because I like biographies and 50's tale is fascinating to me (get shot eleven times, get up and figure out a way to become biggest selling rap artist of last 5 yrs). Plus the initial reviews painted it as an OK movie (6 or 7 on a 10 scale). Back to "Phat Girlz": I understand the director's disappoint (I've suffered similar disappoints when marketing my books), but fussing at the audience won't get her the results she seeks. Get back on the horse and start planning the next project.
Name: MER82
Comment: I am truly amazed that this movie has sparked this much conversation from folk on this Board. Moreso than "Something New" which dealt with interracial romance. Could it be guilt? I totally understand a lot of folks viewpoints in regards to how they feel about Monique, the marketing, etc. And I totally agree with Mo's perspective-as well as the Director's-But dayuum Black folks are surely hypocritical and fickle at best. I have an entirely different viewpoint to address and its a shame that its the end of the week when no one will likely see it. I agree with what Gemami said a while back. There are glaring contradictions between going to support a Black man dressed as a fat Black woman, as opposed to not supporting a fat sistagurl-with who so much more of us can relate. Black folk were up in arms when 'Hustle and Flow' won an Oscar for "that song"-and was nominated as a film.--But these are the movies WE support in the theaters!!!!!!!!! Precisely the reason why filmmakers keep making them. Now to the reason Black folk wouldn't support Monique and this movie: It all goes back to personal responsibility and ownership of self and issues that need to be addressed on an individual level. It seems to me more folks don't want to see their projection (i.e. Monique) on the big screen--which would be seen as a reflection of themselves. We also tend to be more critical of women than we are of men, so Monique is not as funny, yada, yada, yada. Its real hard to deal with personal truth-so maybe the writer of this movie just got the timing wrong. Folks ain't ready to handle the truth---> Period.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: For those who ever wondered why #1 I write this column and #2 why I participate in the subsequent discussions...this is the perfect illustration. ANY writer can write something and walk away. And when he/she does, I feel it's lost its power to affect change and it's an elitist attitude to have. (I know, me of all people saying elitist). But when there's dialogue ALL of us learn something and have something substantive to think about the next time another movie of comparable feel and content comes before us. We'll have something to reflect upon and use to our collective benefit. We don't ever have to agree, but we do have to talk to each other...continually.
Name: AlexG159
Comment: As the previous person correctly stated, this movie sure has generated a lot of debate (and that's a good thing isn't it?) But I've come back again to comment about Phat Girlz but in particluar to compare it with another soon-to-be-released black film, Akeelah and the Bee. As I stated i my earlier post Girlz was not screened anywhere in advance to film critics. Akeelah which has been screened multiple times to critics across the country and to the public before it's release next week. There are even more advance screening this weekend. (Already they're using quotes from critics such as Roger Ebert in their adverts for the film) I live in Chicago and starting at least a month ago I started seeing street ads for Akeelah everywhere and shortly afterwards on TV. Now Akeelah is a small independent film, independently financed and made on a extremely modest budget, yet both Lawrence Fishbrune and Keke Palmer have been on a national wide PR campiagn for the film. (I should know because I attended one of them) But what's even more important is that, just from my limited experience, this film is getting some MAJOR interest from the people. I can't begin to tell you how many people I know have told me that they're extremely excited about seeing this film. One friend has gone so far on her own to start putting together student film groups to take her daughter and her school classmates to see the film when it opens. And she even hasn't seen the film yet! The message of the film alone is reason enough for her. The basic reason for this publicity and interest is that Akeelah is simply a beautifully made, intelligent, well acted, inspring, enetrtaining movie and people can sense that. All of this Girlz didn't have. No advertising, no PR campaign, no buzz, no interest. Nobody was dying to see the film and it's not enough just to say see this or that movie "because it's good for you" People either want to see a movie or don't, and people didn't want to see Girlz. I have no doubt that Akeelah will be a hit at the box office and may even be the # 1 film at the box office when it opens next week. What will the director of Girlz say then?
Name: AlexG159
Comment: P.S Oh yeah, I forgot Mocha, who's 36-24-36, you're certainly no Mo'Nique. That sounds like the PERFECT body to me! Your ex-husband either was blind or gay or both!
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Then that will advance the discussion...if Akeelah and the Bee with two MAJOR stars doesn't fare well, there's nothing left to be said. With your precursor Alex...if everything you've said is true, then Akeelah does not have any of the hindrances that allegedly Phat Girlz had. Also, its rating should even appeal to a wider array of people. But if isn't received well in terms of box office...you'll hear from me about it, sure enough.
Name: toubobie
Comment: I recently saw Phat Girlz a few days ago. This movie was AWFUL. The themes were good-natured and positive. However, on a purely aesthetic level, the film was of poor quality. There was a plethora of jump cuts. The transitions were vague. The lighting was poor, especially considering that dark-skinned peoples are rarely lit appropriately in films today. It was evident that editing was rushed. I am not sure if the film was captured entirely on digital, but I was certain that the stock value was inconsistent throughout. In order to get your beautiful, well-intentioned points across about black self love, African empowerment, etc. you must be sure that the medium by which you are delivering the message is of as high a quality as the message. African American people overstimulated by multi-media outlets are QUITE savvy when it comes to quality film value, but rarely its content, unfortunately. On a narrative level, did you have an audience in mind when you worte this film? I am assuming you are targeting African Americans and Africans. I am an African American woman, and I could not relate to Mo'Nique's character at all. Her wants were not my wants. She was too over-the-top, and her other two companions were on extremes as well. Simply, aside from our beautiful black skin, it may be hard to see pieces of ourselves in your characters, especially since the most emotionally stable characters were Africans. It almost felt as if I was being preached to by them. Some African Americans may find that offensive. Also, I get that you are promoting self-love and acceptance; however, you did not particularly show women who happened to be "thick," these women were unhealthily overweight, just as Jaz's skinny cousin was unhealthily skinny---again, extremes. It would have been great had the African doctor told her that she didn't have to be bone skinny, but her weight causes a plethora of problems such as heart disease, high cholestoral, etc. Imagne how many more women's lives would have been potentially dually changed for the better on sprirital and physical levels. Lastly, Mo'Nique is too much to take for a few minutes, let alone 112 minutes (or more). I applaud your efforts in making the film. Try to be open to the critique on this film, you may find the next try to be a success! Peace and Blessings.
Name: AlexG159
Comment: One more thing Morris, if you don't mind, about Akeelah and the Bee. I may be reading a lot in here that perhaps doesn't exist, but I get this feeling that black people sense that with Akeelah this is our last final shot. How many times have we heard us complaining about the lack of uplifting, positive images of black people in films? Simple answer, as you have said, BEACUSE THEY DONT MAKE MONEY! So here at last is one final uplifting, positive movie about us and I think somehow people are aware of that. It's time to either put up or shut up for good. I think there's a feeling that if we don't get behind this film, then we have no reason to complain about negative images ever again. Just be happy with the latest Wayans brothers coon show and shut up.
Name: TRTR
Comment: "Toubobie's" comment that this film is "AWFUL" and then the subsequent attempt at explaining it in a "detailed" manner is just plain wrong. Toubobie has other issues with the film that seem to relate to Africans/African American (at the core, we're all Africans who were just dropped off in different locations during enslavement) and there also seem to be issues with the topic of fatness/obesity/overweight -- especially as it relates to Mo'Nique. Toubobie comes off as very personally biased about certain "issues."
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Alex, I think you hit the nail on the head .
Name: mamacita22
Comment: Ok. I read the letters and comments on Friday. Saw Phat Girlz on Saturday...and thought the message of the movie was positive, but the movie itself was so-so. Some stereotypes were reinforced (black fat women are sex-starved and always hungry; black women in general are angry and ready to play the dozens when they feel slighted). Grade: C- Glad I could contribute somewhat to the movie's financial success. Try again, soror. Oprah has had some flops too. Keep on keepin' on.
Name: jazzfan
Comment: Go see Akeelah and the Bee (I will) and check out the article in Sunday's Washington Post about Laurence Fishburne and the fact that he has artistic integrity that keeps him from acting in crap like this for a paycheck. Yes, I know that we don't always go to a movie to get preached at or for a feelgood story, but if I want UPN or WB quality entertainment I can see it at home for the cost of the cable bill I already pay!
Name: china2u
Comment: when it comes to supporting worthwhile cinema (per Mr. O'kelly) The key here being worthwhile. As a previous poster stated, I am sick of Monique on her soap box talking about all the skinny women that she hates. She needs to take whatever change she makes from this fiasco and get her some therapy. Her same drone on and on and on about how happy she is with her fatness makes me think that she's trying to convince herself, not us. Just my 2cents
Name: china2u
Comment: Mr. Kelly, your post about not spporting the documentary Rize but supporting Monique's fiasco is really amazing. It's completely hypocritical! Where are the educational or vocational goals in Phat Girlz? Do you have a vested interest in this movie? Just wondering.........
Name: cedent
Comment: china2u - you don't get the difference? take a look at the movies, then come back. Its interesting that you don't grasp the differences by just reading the commentaries here but again, take a look at the movies, then comment...i think you'll be able to clearly see the difference between the two. It was hypocritical at all.
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