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Name: MER82

Comment: I don't follow the basis behind this piece. Any other posters out there with some insight? There are so many counterpoints to just about everything DJ stated. I don't know who you (DJ) have been talking to, but what is suggested in this commentary is a tad off base to say the least...

Name: mamacita22

Comment: MER82, I can relate to this piece. My husband and I were both chasing the dollar bill and our kids were at daycare from 6:30 to 6:30. It wasn't right. I wasn't the kind of mom I wanted to be, but I was great at my job...so one day, when I saw a look in my child's eyes that made me shameful (as I picked her up as the daycare was closing and she was the last child there), I quit the rat race...turned in my laptop and park-n-ride pass and became an educator. My career is more rewarding to me now in more ways than I can count. My job as a mom and a teacher blesses me, blesses my family and blesses my community. I'm not rich in pay, but my spirit is overflowing.

Name: MzTee

Comment: I found many things DJ wrote to be unsettling, but also somewhat true because what I took from the article and the author he quoted stats from is the importance of choice. Choice dictates how one's life will be lived and the consequences that go along with those choices. And while there are many things about the feminist movement that don't appeal to me, especially its lack of understanding of the issues that women of color face, I do believe at its core the feminist philosophy is valid in championing the equality of women socially, economically, and politically. This is something we should all be able to agree with. And that ain't propoganda for damn sure.

Name: MzTee

Comment: I forgot to add, that while the stats the author DJ cited are encouraging, there are still many inequities out there confronting women. I'm wondering how women are faring in starting salaries within entry-level positions across the board. Does the author address this at all? Because it appears, without having read the study, the women in the author's study who have made strides in certain industries are much farther along in their careers. Given this, has much really changed and have women really advanced?

Name: DOne

Comment: Reality hurts but I think the article does speak the truth on some level. Its basically saying "you can't have it all". His point about not having your cake and eating too is correct, however, I will add that the same goes for both sexes. A lot of us men want professional career women, but then still expects her to take care of the house, the kids, and have dinner ready when we get home. If we want a homemaker, then we need to allow her to stay home and do her job; if we want a career woman then we have to step up to the plate and pitch in around the house.

Name: MER82

Comment: THANK YOU MZ TEE AND DONE-those are my points exctly.

Name: MER82

Comment: And damn EUR's sever to he11 for fukking up my post that I spent all that time writing. I guess it was too long. But DJ, we know not the motivation behind the author of the article you referenced. Clearly there are still numerous inequities in the workplace that have an adverse impact on women. Of course if a woman has been on the job or in the industry longer than a man, she will most likely make more. And I bet stats will back up the fact that it doesn't take men as long to move up as it does women in the work world. Yes women are realizing they can't do it all-duh the reason for that is that they don't have men at home ON THEIR LEVEL in oh so many ways that are willing to do their part and fair share. I am not sure where you are going with your pitch on this failing feminism thing but an enlightened brother like yourself needs to be focusing on helping the myriad of men who don't think the way you and DOne do....naturally you can't understand our total point of view, you won't be able to do that because you are a man speaking a man's point of view in a male-dominated, patriarchal society. We want men who are responsible, loving, sharing and caring, who can step up financially, spritually, physically and emotionally. While there are some self-hating women who only focus on finances--it is hardly fair to write an entire article based on one small group to generalize across a feminist movement or the entire half of this country's population.

Name: MER82

Comment: One more thing--we live in a society that covets "manly" jobs as jobs that are considered more important and thus the reason for higher salaries. I mean who makes the decision that construction and fire fighting are worth more than childcare and teaching? Men. Naturally women couldn't traditionally get into the "man" fields and are JUST NOW making those strides--this College thing we are seeing now is because of feminism and the notion that women are capable. Men are not considered "on the level" because they are dropping out of school, not even thinking about college and damn sure don't do much to provide for their families, can't even fix a broken car! -->all at alarming rates. Lets focus on getting the men right. The real failure is the fact that while women grew stronger, somehow that made men weaker--that is the focus, how to bring responsible men back to the fold. I can't wait for that article. PEACE Family.

Name: DarrylJames

Comment: Yeah, I knew that I would get this kind of response. MER82, why do you ask who I’ve been talking to? Are you assuming that I’ve only been speaking to a specific group of people, which is how I come up with my %*$ertions? Did you read the part where I quoted a man who not only sat on the board of the NOW, but is also a researcher? Do you want to ignore the fact that I am a researcher as well? Disagree if you want to, but I’m not wrong simply because you feel something. How much research have you done? Why is it that people want to challenge research with their own opinions? How about this: "I disagree, because in MY research, I have found…" I know, I know, you haven’t done any research. Pure emotion. The sad thing is that for many people, my side of the argument won't even be considered unless they have witnessed the downside, as in the case of mamacita22, then it comes crashing into their lives. Otherwise, it's easy to pretend it doesn't exist if it hasn't affected your life. And, simply saying something isn't propaganda doesn't turn it into science. MZTee, I agree that there are still inequities. And those need to be addressed. The point is that things were never as bad as they were painted to be. And Done, you are also correct in that some men are off base wanting women to be successful in their careers, but still in the kitchen. Neither of us can have the cake and eat it too.

Name: DarrylJames

Comment: But, MER82, you're doing exactly what strong men and open-minded women recognize as the intrinsic problem with feminism. You've managed to turn everything on its head so that ultimately, it's all men's fault. What was this: "Men are not considered "on the level" because they are dropping out of school, not even thinking about college and damn sure don't do much to provide for their families, can't even fix a broken car! -->all at alarming rates. " You've rattled off a bunch of negative ignorant statements that have no real basis, yet you have the nerve to say "at alarming rates." Do you have any idea how hateful and ignorant that sounds? Where are those rates you speak of? And really what is this: "Yes women are realizing they can't do it all-duh the reason for that is that they don't have men at home ON THEIR LEVEL in oh so many ways that are willing to do their part and fair share. " Do you really think that any intelligent man with testicles would even engage in this Feminatzi propaganda? You said: "Lets focus on getting the men right. The real failure is the fact that while women grew stronger, somehow that made men weaker" I'm sorry you feel that way, but it's a damned lie. Don't wait too long for that article, because I won't be writing it. For you, it's all about fixing men, because women are all good. There are a lot of myths being passed around and we need to investigate them before just rolling with them. Women are stronger in many ways. In other ways, they are weaker than yesterday's woman. But to say that we're just falling apart while women are getting it on is just wrong. Damn, what color is the sun in your world? Don't worry about where I'm going with the failure of feminism. It's clear you won't be going with me.

Name: Kofi

Comment: The critical piece missing in this article is the impact of institutional sexism. DJ is doing a subtle blame the victim dance. One should not have to make a choice between having a child and a viable career. Take for example becoming a tenured professor. Women may have to choose to be childless in order to reach her career potential in education. A man does not make such choices. The rigors or the corporate lader deprive us all of our humanity and could easily be reconfigured to accomodate having a life. Other developed nations do it surely with our expertise we in the US can make room for true diversity in the workplace.

Name: DarrylJames

Comment: This is not a term paper. Nothing was missing because I added everything I wanted it to contain. Place institutional sexism in your term paper or whatever you write. I raised real issues. Let’s stay on message. My point wasn’t to toss shame on working women. I just don’t want to keep hearing how they are so put upon that it’s shameful, while at the same time, Black men are falling behind them because they are perfect. That’s just not productive at all, but it’s popular contradictory mythology. I’m not in the habit of blaming victims, I’m just not in the habit of supporting mythology and taking shots as a villain. And, once again, I’m combating damaging rhetoric, which is contradictory. Before we do anything about what the workplace looks like, we have to understand what it really is. For the effects of feminist propaganda, just check the damaging and divisive male-bashing in MER92’s posts. That’s popular. And, true, one should not have to make a choice between having children and having a viable career, but as I explained in the piece, it’s what both working men and women face. Life ain’t fair, so we need to focus on what to do to make things better. False feel good propaganda won’t do it.

Name: JamerDelta

Comment: I think a lot of people made quite a few valid points. Especially MER82 and KOFI and let me not forget DOne. This is an interesting topic but I think not quite hitting the mark as Kofi so well put it. I do consider myself a feminist, but am not a man-hater or anything like that by any means. I do believe though that if women hadn't banded together, things would never have changed and this is not a blame game, it has a lot more to do with sexism in socialization and institutional sexism. As Kofi says, other nations have made quality of life for both sexes a priority which includes stuff like healthcare and vacation time etc. This is more of a social problem than just a feminist problem. It is an interesting topic and I do thank you for writing on it.

Name: MER82

Comment: Brotha-I don't need to research what I see, live and experience on the refgular--and what my mother and other elders experienced before me. Its like a white man trying to tell a black man that racism never was as bad as blacks made it out to be. It doesn't work. I don't care how much "research" he does, a white man can never stand on an argument or discussion against a black man about a black man's issues. Darryl last posted "The point is that things were never as bad as they were painted to be." Are you kidding me? My mother was told by her supervisor that she was not making the same pay rate as her male colleague because "he had a family to support." We are talking about real facts not some dug up research by someone with obvious bias. I am not going to sit up here and say everything is perfect now that some women banded together for equal rights--of course things can always be improved...but you have no basis to attack a group of people in this society that have beared witness to real actual experiences. And brotha I stand by my comments, I didn't stutter. You stated yourself in a broad generalization-that "these women talk about how men are beneath their level." In my posts, I simply tried to address that comment. You sure do get heated when folk don't absent-mindedly agree with you on something. Newsflash*** You are not the only one who writes, researches, or name-calls and web board bashes. I can swing with the best of them on all counts, so don't go there. I am simply one person who is pointing out the myriad of additional sides to the one-sided diatribe you wrote. Yes, men are weaker today, yes, men need to address their own issues, you being a man, I think that is a better place for you to start. You don't have to agree with me. I can still appreciate YOUR passion and "emotion" on this issue without debasing you--that is what makes this world go round. But if you want to take it there, I can go there with you. You don't intimidate me, you ain't that special pahtna. And guess what? Your bias is showing.

Name: MER82

Comment: BTW-ain't nobody stupid up in here, ya'll know I meant to say "regular."

Name: Royale55

Comment: I have to agree with just about everyone who posted (especially Mer82 and Kofi)to this article. Shout out to MzTee as well! But it seems as if women are being blamed on the predicament set forth by a white-man dominated, supremacist society. Anyone can skew statistics or write a book or thesis on something--and consequently, the writing can be interpreted in various ways (Just look at the Bible). On this subject, Darryl James' is one interpretation. There are many others. As usual, we attack each other instead of the issues at hand and this article and especially the author's subsequent postings definitely come off as nothing more than a "blame the victim" tirade. Real change comes from people working together, and if the author can't take the heat that comes from open dialogue, diverse views/information, feelings and concerns, then don't write the articles period.

Name: oldsoul

Comment: I haven't been around in a while Daryl so I dropped in just to speak. Shouts to Royale, Tee, Kofi, Everybody on the board! I agree - I'm not sure and I don't know, all at the same time. I will say this, though, after reading Mad At Miles by Pearl Cleague (sp), I came away with a different appreciation and empathy for the woman and more specifically, the Black woman. The Black woman is seriously up against against the wall which in all honesty, qualifies - IMO - the Black Wo/Man as equally yoked when it comes to discrimination and all the other negative isms that woefully affect us. Having said that, I feel we have "debated" the (Black) gender issues far too long...we have compared emotional scars and wounds enough - we've all been fuct over - 400 times. So, now it's 2006 - it'll be 2010 in roughly three years, and where are we? Have we progressed together since the start of the new millenium (sp)? As I ask myself, I'd have to offer a collective "no". My point, people, Lets Come Together - all those that want to and will can do it whereever we are. And for those that see themselves as separate, say a silent prayer for them "for they know not what they do" and simply move on. I think it was Harriet Tubman that said "I could have freed more if they'd known they were slaves [sic]". There's no time to waste...really no time at all. Daryl, of course, keep skribblin' man, everything you write is quite relevant. Peace...

Name: oldsoul

Comment: Oh yeah, I tried to pick up a copy of "Crack" but I couldn't gain access to the site Daryl...holla at me!

Name: DarrylJames

Comment: YAWN!! As usual, people disagree and disrespect, but try to turn it around on me. Okay, but I won’t fight the ignorant anymore. Too much energy wasted. If you don’t like what I write, just leave it alone. I’m not trying to convince you, and it should be obvious by now, that you can not convince me. You're just spouting the same old shiiiiiiiiiiit….so, it’s yours, people. "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." --Friedrich Nietzsche And, Oldsoul—we had a great number of orders and there were problems with the server. They’re fixed now. thanks for the support! peace

Name: MER82

Comment: DJ you are the only one coming across as ignorant in this entire situation.

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