Sun, Nov 22, 2009
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Name:
justmythoughts
Comment: Bravo!!! This whole situation is more far reaching then people think. This has become a global problem in which young Black girls think it is OK to carry themselves this way and young Black bioys feel justified in treating said girls a certain why. Unfortunately, they all all unware of the bigger picture and the longterm effect it has. I really hate to say it be the Balck community put Tipper Gore on blast a few years back because she raised this very point. Sadly, she was on the right track. Pains me to say it.
Come on people, we have lots of work ahead of us to undo the damage already done.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: And the sad thing is that the sistas that can really sing are choosing not to do R&B...they are doing Rock & alternative Soul. But my question is why won't essence feature them more prominently in the magazine beyond a blurb about an upcoming album. Some folks have the nerve to compare Beyonce to Tina Turner. I challenge anyone to go to myspace.com/AliceSmith and check out her four cuts. Trust me you'll be saying Beyonce who? This sista can blow. Come on EUR if you're reading this -- give artist like Alice Smith, Leela James, Lizz Fields, and Kim Hill their due....Latifah, Scott & Badu are reprising the sugawater tour, why not make it a fetival like the old Smoking Groves. Give some solid talent the benefit of a core music buying audience the opportunity to get heard.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: meant to type "festival ike the old Smoking Grooves Tour"...and if anyone happens to check out Alice Smith..."Dream" and "Do I" show the most incredible range I've heard since Janis Joplin & Tina Turner!!!!
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Name:
goodnplenty1957
Comment: this is good to hear..hmmm what was the video-ho thinking when she was getting PAID!!!?? she made alot of money portraying those same ones and i dont think she complained when the checks rolled around.
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Name:
nightshift
Comment: I hear what Jill Scott, and agree. My question is how many times has her @ss got waxed and/or she was bouncing her junk while listening to this music mathcing move for move with the Vid'Ho's?
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Name:
cdub
Comment: nightshift excuse me but who gives a rat's azz if she was bouncing....
ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENION
Folks I feel awake all call and all HATERS HATERS need not respond. Get to work!!!!! { Since no body can check in on the 4TH )
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: Our music has always been representative of US and there are some elements of HIPHOP that could very well be the first and only musical form ever created by Black people in which representation of the race is not considered. HIPHOP is about not caring about what someone else thinks of you, but this non-chalance has painted us as thugs, whores, and drunks the world over. I was listening to Public Enemy on yesterday and found myself wondering what happened to the message in HIPHOP. Our music has a message and this too has been lost in the whirlwind of gangster rapping and thugging. I don't purchase music in which a grown Black Man is talking about getting a blow job (Gettin Some Head), or where violence is espoused (I Hit That Byatch With a Bottle) or another tired booty song. I commend Jill for speaking out and for realizing that it must be understood by Black Women that our music must be respectful of us or we will not support it. That means we don't buy the music, we don't gyrate in the videos for the music and we don't group around this foul-mouthed rappers as if they were Gods. If Black women want to be respected in the music made by the children that they produce then Black Women will have to be the ones who change the tune of things. There is no magical prince who will ride up on a horse and change it for us. We will have to change it ourselves.
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Name:
fuzzygoss
Comment: But Opraah BEYONCE is a legend...ROFLMAO ***Supaho still pimping the system lmao. That trick ain't change, if she changed, I'm deaf, dumb, and blind.
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Name:
purposeinlife
Comment: Goodinplenty/Nightshift - sorry but it seems you two are so focused on "petty" stuff that you are missing the message. The point of the message is that the images portrayed in the videos sends the wrong message to both males and females. It is degrading, devaluing and humiliating to the psyche - to the soul. It does not promote a healthy attitude in the minds of young girls. Instead it encourages young girls to demote themselves to a piece of "meat". In the same way, it does not encourage young boys to respect females. Instead, the female is relagated to a piece of booty. That is the crux of the message. Please get it! Jill is correct, we need to put our money where our mouth is: STOP BUYING the sheeeet and believe me, it will change what is presented to us.
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Name:
andryce76
Comment: oh please if they didn't get in those video's shaking their but's and acting a fool it would be okay nobody has a gun to these girls heads nobody is making them do this so if your gonna blame the rappers you gotta blame the hoochies to. they allow themselves to be treated as whores sex objects then complain about. life of a video vixen yeah right.and look at some of the female rappers there just as nasty and foul mouthed as the men.
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Name:
Stuckinthe70s
Comment: I'm sorry. I must have missed the videos with Jill and the videoHO's. Please inform me 'cuz I've never seen it.
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Name:
realuvbaby
Comment: ^5 Harriet. I agree with you. Many women are so naturally competitive for a man's attention (starting possibly with siblings and mom for daddy's attention) and are not above using their physical attributes, especially if there is no substance or self-esteem present. There are some women who choose to exploit their physical attributes just because IF YOU GOT IT, FLAUNT IT and if other women don't agree with their choices, these women are just jealous and haters when we know that's not the case at all. Men love to see girl on girl action, and that includes catfights between us, so they encourage rivalry. While most women aspire to be sexy, some of us know that we could never be reduced to our genitals. It's up to Black Women to choose not to be exploited for love or money and to respect ourselves and each other more. And the one thing about respect is, once you give it (or have self-respect), then you can demand it from others.
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Name:
cdub
Comment: andryce76 That is a very tired point of wiew. We are losing our childern again. how many times HOW MANY!!! It is time to change. Yea they ae not holding a gun but the are holding money >>>> WHICH IS MORE POWERFUL!!!!
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Name:
andryce76
Comment: CDUB=so what they holding money are you out there shaking your a-s it doesn't matter who offers you what you don't have to do it. they have to make up in there own minds you can't do it for them. they know they are wrong for what they are doing but they do it anyway. so what does that tell you? they don't care and as for the money excuse that's tired to.
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Name:
Renetta
Comment: We as black women don't realize the true power that WE have. We could stop this. We as black people don't realize the POWER that WE have. We LET things happen to us, that's why our men disrespect us and that's why white america mistreats us as a whole. A tremendous lack of self esteem and self hate and we have it because we don't realize we do have POWER. We do. But powerless men lash out and crush their women, and powerless people are at the mercy of those in power. We need to wake up and exercise our power.
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: i remember VH1 did a documentary on this. i wish they show it again.
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Name:
cdub
Comment: Why not put road blocks along the way!!! If they are so free to have the choice. The folks that know the best can at least have another direction and sabatoge the establishment. Do you get it!! They are destroying your closet female(S)!!!!
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: Karrin Steffans is really a trip. "I was always told I was ugly." She's lying. Karrin is a very pretty girl and you don't make a career out of propping up in videos half naked if you think that you are ugly. I am so sick of her blaming everyone and everything else for her selfish, greedy and nasty behavior other than herself. First she goes on Oprah and blames all the men in her life for being a whore and now she is blaming childhood teasing? Give me a break. None of that should have been enough impetus for her to ditch her child and start slobbering on knobs just to "make it."
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: This is what I don't get about IceCube's fury against Oprah. Cube has clearly made music in which he's spoken of Black Women as "byatches" and other degogatory terms. He then wants a Black Woman to give him credibility by appearing on her show and when she doesn't he blasts her publicly and says that she has a problem with rappers. Oprah has clearly said that she is not opposed to all rap music but will not support any musical form which speaks negatively of women. Is this indicative of the kind of backlash Black Women will receive when they oppose such depictions of themselves? Are the brothers going to turn around and get mad at us for demanding some R-E-S-P-E-C-T? Perhaps so. But his anger cannot compete with a woman scorned. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and a lot of rap music has scorned us. Sisters need to release the fury.
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Name:
cdub
Comment: What Nobody has anything to say about this article? I see I have my work cut out for me!!!!
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Name:
EdnaMae
Comment: You go girl! You go! Its about time someone other than Oprah speaks out on this degrading way black women are being portrayed on this planet. These uncouth, hood rat, gold toothed men have some nerve with thier "music" and thier hatred for black women in it. Instead of shwoing that black women are still the backbone of the black commuinty, they still show them in a light as cheap, oversexed tramps, playing right into the hands of the bigots. You go Jill!
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Great quest Jill. Hopefully you target your efforts on 'women' changing the 'ways' they view 'themselves' as opposed to changing the viewpoint of 'men.' The latter ain't gonna happen.
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: Harriet, why is Karrine Stephens lying? Isn’t it obvious she suffers for low self-esteem. I can totally see men telling her she wasn’t attractive or worthy enough… industry heads telling her she’s no Tyra or Noam but to stick with being a video "vixen"... The men she slept with only using her for her sexual attributes. Yes, she needs to take totally responsibility, but I can understand where the anger and distrust comes from. Being attractive doesn’t mean you believe you are attractive, especially when there are a lot of negative people in your life telling you otherwise.
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: Bigchassie - I saw the VH1 thing about this and the funny/sad/pathetic thing about it was that one video chick's mom was bragging about her daughter doing the late night uncut videos. The other posters are right - we as black women DO have the power to stop this but if your mom has no class/self respect/sense of self then you won't either. I have talked to a lot of my girlfriends my age (30s with kids, and they "choose their battles" and one that continually gets pushed by the wayside is music/clothing. These little girls know that if they beg/nag/sneak enough, they can have whatever music/clothing they want because their mothers are tired from work or not diligent enough to put their foot down. "It's only music" and "I talk to my daughter about ___" keeps getting said but then lil Keisha walks out the house looking and sounding like a $2 whore who owes change and it's ridiculous. I blame us. We as women need to guide our kids better and we're not. The fathers are to blame too but they don't have the impact on kids that mothers do - they just don't. Jill was dead on. And so was Oprah. I commend her for holding her ground. Ice Cube is ridiculous. He knows that the mess he spews is awful and misogynistic. And so does Ludakris. They know that and yet they continue trying to justify it and there's no justification. They sold out to the rap game and just because Oprah isn't selling out with them they're salty. Well too bad. A couple of buttholes. I am glad Luda felt disrespected by Oprah - like he had no voice, like he wasn't valued...Now he has a taste of how "video chicks" feel on all of his nasty videos. It didn't feel too good to him, apparently. I love it!...
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: Musb made a good point. It is not a man's job to show a woman how to respect herself. Men love the female body and they are not goin to stop objectifying it if allowed. That's why I'm not even mad at the video hos, they don't have power. I'm more mad at our R&b singers for being their OWN VIDEO HOS. The female singers are SUPPOSED TO BE empowered yet they still choose to do the video ho thing. And to make matters worse, they have OTHER naked chicks in THEIR videos. If I were a female singer making a video, I would not portray women that way, if anything, that would be my chance to get some naked men in these videos. But noooooooooooo the female singers take the same dayum route the rappers take.
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: Gemami- I think that she is lying because in her book it is early and clearly made known that Karrine wanted to be famous and that her pursuit of that, while selling her body and soul in the process, and the mistreatment of men, was the reason for her whoring season and not some silly childhood teasing excuse. This is a new excuse she is presenting on her road to trying to be some sort of public figure. Who knows, perhaps she has a talk show in the works. She also clearly excludes her drug and alcohol addiction as one of the reasons for some of her actions. In the book she repeatedly says that she lacked love for her self which is the foundation of esteem but never that she thought that she was ugly or unattractive. She was so confident that she spoke of going to video auditons topless and always being willing to one up the other girls. Someone may have told her she was ugly- but I highly doubt it for she is not- but I do not believe that her being called ugly is what led her to sucking dyck.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: let me get this right...the video vixen was on the panel? Irony of all ironies.....
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Name:
khufu
Comment: forget ironies...hypocrisies..her presence there is just plain hypocritical and defeats the whole damn purpose of any discussion about postive images for/of Black women
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: Harriet, I just think all that she is (from the video vixen to superhead) comes from a place of self-hate. Let me say all I know about Karrine is from articles I’ve read and on Tyra, and from that I really believe she suffers from extreme self-hatred. I believe it stems from her troubled childhood continue through her abusive relationships and manifested itself in her overt sexuality. Karrine, like a lot of girls/women, believe they are only as good as their body and their abilities in the bed. Yes, she plays the blame game, but I give her credit for realizing her wrong, her low self-esteem and trying to help other girls/women in the similar situations.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: this is a world where women are taught that they are sexual objects....a world where they are socialized to believe that they exist to be what men determine they should be....that is at the core of the %*$! that women face and needs to be changed...the cultural definitions of womanhood and feminity are at fault and the women who help to perpetuate their own subjugation...the whole strip industry should be abolished...it's all about self0exploitation and self-degradation....it's all about woman as object of the man's pleasure....
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Name:
khufu
Comment: this is can found historically rooted in the dowry..where women were exchanged for money and valuables..and that is Biblical...okay so because it's Biblical--is it right? But when you truly understand what the dowry meant then it is acceptable..the dowry was not to buy the woman but to express the value the giver was placing on the woman and the appreciation the giver had to the bride's family....
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Name:
khufu
Comment: so why do I bring this up.....western culture and civilization turned %*$! all around and upside down and these western values govern most of what we do now...so the sexualization of women by men and by women themselves is acceptable to the extent that it's BIG BUSINESS...good luck to Jill Cott...she would have to overturn the culture..again the mere fact that the Video Vixen would be on a panel discussing the topic supports the futility of it all
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: That is totally untrue that it’s not a man’s job to teach a woman how to respect themselves. Girls learn respect from seeing strong men treating women with respect. I have to wonder if that’s why men are distancing themselves from their families because they feel obsolete. Anyway, we as consumers need to demand more from these artists, we especially have to teach our children what is so wrong with supporting these artists. We should ask ourselves why these male artists hate their mothers, sisters, daughters so much that they reduce women to the sum of their parts and call them out their name? Not only should these male artists change but they need to change… this constant inundation of sex is tiresome and unnecessary. And for me this isn’t just limited to rap artists but R&B artists as well.
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: >IJA - You are extremely wrong here, buddy. EVERYONE has a responsibility to do the right thing on this planet. EVERYONE. What men must continually ask themselves is if that were their mother/sister/daughter, would they want her to be portrayed that way? I cannot tell you how tired I am of this whole "I'm a brute and all I want is to see titties and azz / Men gonna do what they gonna do" mentality! STOP IT ALREADY!!! As a Christian, I believe that men are supposed to be the head of household. As such, it is up to the man to protect his daughter / wife / mother and to not allow her to be exploited/molested. Men who exploit/molest women aren't really men. They are "boy-men" - a little boy in a grown body. Back when men were emasculated by whites when their women were exploited had no choice. Now we have a choice and we are doing it to ourselves and then trying to justify it. This is one of the many reasons why the black community (if you can call it that) is in such sad shape. IJA - I hope you don't have any daughters.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: GEMAMAI I agree but most of them have no clue that their acts are disrespectful and degrading towards their mothers, sisters and daughters..that's the shame
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Name:
TesticAl
Comment: *Blasts Ain't No Fun by Snoop Dogg*
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: Gemami- I just don't beleive her to be sincere. I believe her intention is not to "help young girls"- only her self.
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Name:
Thunny
Comment: If Karrine Steffans was named to the top position at a private school, would that make her the head master?
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Name:
khufu
Comment: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/temika2
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Gem...for me it's moreso a question of "who can do a better job." We ALWAYS hear people say that "a man is the only one who can show a boy how to be a man." So I think it's reasonable to expect the same from women. There will always be a level of inadequacy when a person of the opposite sex attempts to teach a child on the "ways of the world." Sure it's everyone's job. BUT, that same "we are in this together" rarely applies when it's a woman raising a son. That's why u always have people asking "where's the dad"
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: *after pickin myself off da floor* Harriet..I gotta say agree w/u 100%. That's IF this is not some imposter perpetrating as Harriet..lol
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: Harriet, I think we agree but see Karrine from two different angles... where I pity her you just don't care for her. But we both agree that she's opportunistic.
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Name:
TesticAl
Comment: Well if Kurupt gave a fuckk about a bich, I'd always be broke.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: THUNNY LOL and the head mistress
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: What's interesting is that Ice Cube (since he's mentioned here) is belittled for things that he's done years ago but Karrine is now "so misunderstood and has partially accepted responsiblity for her ways." Her whorish lifestyle has been glorified in her "bestseller" just LAST year! But, now she has a national platform on which to speak? WOW! And what message is THAT sending again?
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: Queeniebunz< “EVERYONE has a responsibility to do the right thing on this planet.” Please take those rose-colored glasses off immediately and throw them in the trash.
The right thing according to whom? There are plenty of men (and some women) who look at those videos and see NOTHING wrong. So, to them, the point of responsibility is moot. Perhaps responsibility is the wrong word, whether or not it’s everyone’s responsibility to do the ‘right thing’ (if there is such a thing) is neither here nor there because you can’t rely on people to do what YOU THINK is the responsible thing. Therefore, it is the JOB of the adults in a young person’s life to guide them in the direction as THEY see fit. So we can only hope that is in a direction that is positive. I’m not mad at men AT ALL for saying they want to see T&A b/c truthfully, I go to the male strip clubs, and I LOVE to see a man dancing around naked. I smack them on the azz and give’em a dollar the same way men do at a female strip club. Nudity and sexual gratuitousness is not a problem in and of itself, in fact, it’s half the fun of life, the problem is that, in the case of black women, there is an OVEREMPHASIS of it and we, as double minorities have a history of being degraded and unempowered. And THAT’S what I have a problem with.
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: What I find interesting is that so many people bought that woman's book. I would NEVER give her a dime for that book. Basically she was rewarded for her behavior, first by the men she serviced and then by all the women who bought the book and now use her as a speaker. That book should be on the shelf collecting dust and then pulled by frustrated book sellers for lack of sales but nah, Keisha/Tonya/etc. raced to the store to get the book to get the juicy details and that's a shame. The excuse many will probably give is that they want to "understand" why she'd do all of that but it isn't hard to understand. The story of prostitution is as old as time. That's why it's called the 'oldest profession'. She's a hooker, plain and simple and she was rewarded for it like Heidi Fleis and that porn chick Jenna Jamison and it just illustrates how far down the tubes our society has fallen.
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: musbdherbs- It is I, and if Dr. King and Malcolm X can agree on some things then surely there will be occasions where you and I agree so pick your self up off the floor. I am not thinking about Karrine Steffans and I also agree with you, so will wonders never cease?. I too believe, that we (Black Women) must change our own minds and not the minds of our brothers. But only because I think that the job of changing a brother's mind about the way he views women must be done by other Black Men. It is older Black Men who brag to younger Black boys about being a player. Black Men must totally reconstruct how they view women. Thier distorted sense of us is not totally our fault although I shirk none of the blame for the Black Woman participating in her own demise. Black men disrespect us in thier music, in the streets, and in the home and the disrespect of Black Women is not limited to rappers. Once Black Manhood is defined by how you treat women instead of how many you fock, a lot of this will change.
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: queeniebunz- I read the book. I did not purchase it.
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: ‘Herbs, I guess I’m from the school of thought that to raise a well balanced family you need both parents. However, this issue is so much bigger than girls/women loving themselves or even men loving themselves. I personally see it as Blacks being dehumanized by an industry that doesn’t love them… Black men are seen as violent drugged out convicts who’s only attribute is their big Rim and lust for women and Black women as overtly sexual beings without a mind... the sad thing "we" have continually allowed ourselves to be dehumanized. As I type this it is so reminiscent of how Whites saw Blacks during slavery… but unlike slavery we have a choice but making wrong decisions.
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: >IJA - I don't have on the glasses you say. I am a realist. However, I am the type of person that thinks beyond myself to my community and the world. I am not going to set a bad example for young women by allowing myself to be exploited and and I am not going to condone the exploitation of women/men as you seem to. I do believe people have a responsibility to do the right thing and I will continue to believe that because it is the truth. You can argue all you want about what the right thing is but if a person asks - "would I want myself/daughter/mother/sister doing ____" - I think the outcome will be different. I think that if Ice Cube's daughter was on a music video shoot sucking on the penises of the entire entourage to get in the video with her butt hanging out of her shorts and her breast overflowing her skimpy too-small halter top, he'd rethink what he's done to other people's little girls. Things are always different when it's not your family. When you bring your kin into the equation, people quickly see right/wrong very clearly. Think on that....
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Name:
khufu
Comment: a long time ago in the Black community, it would have been a shame for the Video Vixen to come forward.....now, she and others like her are celebrated and made rich....seems that the problem IS within the community and its values
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Name:
cdub
Comment: ImJustAsking look at queeniebunz response. Just to add this message board is on of many roads we can travel to put an end to this shyt. Again I say if people are going to fight a worthy cause by blocking it from the onset then they need to place ther comments on the BET website. We need a place to come together not send negative opinions(sp).
For staters I am never watching PORN Again in my life!!!
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Name:
thechocolate10
Comment: i hear ya harriet i think karrine was ans still is out for herself
the record companies dont help the situation and neither do established artists that have a voice in their videos and the context of their songs
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: Queeniebunz< yes I do condone the ‘exploitation’ of women and men some of the time. What I’m saying is that right now we don’t have balance. I think it’s fine for us to be the object of a man’s pleasure sometimes and vice versa, however, men and women should also see each other as important contributors to a household, intelligent partners in a relationship, good friends, hardworkers, parents (if you like kids) etc etc an equal amount of time. Today, young boys are getting the message that black women are just this one thing (a sex object) and not a multitude of other things as well. Women have to fix that whether it’s by finding their own self-worth or instilling values in their own sons and daughters. Khufu< I’m not a superhead fan whatsoever, but I don’t like the implication that she should somehow be ashamed of what she did. Shame is a stupid thing, it ruins lives. So she sucked some dyck. A lot of women do that to men who are undeserving. In her case it was multiple dycks, in someone else’s case it may be 1 or 2. I don’t care if she talks about it or not. It’s no worse than some of the other things people do that are non-sexual, it’s just that the topic of sex is so inflammatory it gets more attention than other topics.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: oh really IMJUSTASKING? And where do you live again?
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Name:
khufu
Comment: IMJUSTASKING your response prove my points...we' re doomed......
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: >IJA - "yes I do condone the ‘exploitation’ of women and men some of the time." - Wow. I really have no words...Wow.
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: khufi and queenie< if what I said truly shocks the both of you congratulations on your sheltered life. You two are WAY over dramatic, maybe you should plan a meet up. And I hope you weren't asking me where I live thinking that I suck dyck b/c that is something I'm saving for my future husband.
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: I don’t understand why Karrine Stephen is so vilified. We have made millionaires out of men who make a living by degrading women. Isn’t 50cent one of Forbes 100 richest musicians? Why do we expect more from women and just say “boys will be boys”? For me, that’s one of problems – we habitually do not hold boys/men responsible for their actions. No, I’m not a Karrine supporter and truthfully, (since he was mentioned) am a huge fan of Ice Cube’s work in film and do think Oprah’s wrong for not having him on her show for his work in film and television (not his music). I do not see Karrine and others like her as the problem but a by-product… basically, Imjustasking said it best there is no balance in today's music or it's representation of it.
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: I was extremely disappointed with the Essence fest. The vendors were waaay over priced as well as the food selection which was also limited. We spent nearly $250 on cab fare alone. The wigger chick that hosted this panel was sooooooo WAAAACK...OMG, I wish she would have sat her azz down somewhere. The panel was real wack and wasn't saying too much about anything. Jill Scott didn't seem sincere but merely reading a script and most of the others that were asked to speak had no clue what they were supposed to talk about. The highlight of the event in my opinion was Michael Dyson and Minister Farrakhan. Michael Dyson broke it down so tough, you couldn't even divide it. He was OUTSTANDING as well as the minister. I can now say I've been to the Essence Fest but I don't plan on going to anymore. The people in Houston were some of the kindest and most gentle souls I've ever encountered. Everyone was always smiling and real quick to help. It just replaced DC as far as being my favorite city in the US. PEACE
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: Gemami< that's all I was trying to say! If 1 out of 10 videos had naked chicks dancing, I would be fine...but since it's 1 out of every 2 (or more) that's where I find the problem. We need better represenation of ALL dimensions of us in music, movies, the workplace, everywhere. And like it or not, gyrating is one dimension of our culture.
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: QUEENIE>yeah, that was a good documentary which needs to come back on, but that part about the mama accepting the fact that her daughter doing that undedground video was downright wrong and you know when they did that video, the producers who was shooting that video did not get perfessional dancers, they got strippers from a strip joint that looked like they came out of "the playas club" and they did not get paid for it either. see, that is the sad but true part about this whole thing: money! it all boils down that money! see, the producers of these videos know that is what is gonna make sell the CD's of these RAPPERS. SEX! you notice in all the RAP videos you see three things: the bling, the cars, and a lot of T and A slapping everywhere. in the documentary, the reason the girls get into these videos is because they think that is one way of getting into the biz. to get the hook up from other producers who are checking them out but they don't realize there is a price to pay to get that shot to be seen. they have to "do favors" one girl said that this one rapper wanted her to go down on him if she wanted to be in the video. now there was this one chick who stood her ground and she said that they wanted her to wear some real skimpy outfit and she said she was not wearing it. she left the set. so i think it's a matter of integrity and self respect on HER part. but also at the same time, these producers needs to go another route in writing videos that will be more respectful at the same time be creative enough to generate selling of the product. it is said, that SEX SELLS, which is i have to admit, true but find another way creatively to make it sell by not being derogitory.
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Name:
dutches150
Comment: Harriet, not for nothing, but alot of times people's lack of love for self comes from people telling them things like, you are ugly, you ain't sheyat and you will never be sheyat and that leads to self esteem issues. When you are tearing someone down as a child, growing up they work on either proving you wrong or right. That can also lead to drug and alcohol addiction. They are in pain and they need to numb themselves from their reality. Regardless of whether Karrine said she was teased in the book or not, her esteem issues showed in her actions. The actual foundation of where they started are not the issue. The fact that she can admit to her mistakes in life and try to prevent someone else from making those same mistakes is a huge step in the right direction.
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Name:
Victornator
Comment: What constitues a video ho? Are the backup dancers in Beyonce's "Crazy in Love" video hos? Was Tatiana the leading lady in Michael Jackson's "The Way you Make me Feel" video a video ho?
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Name:
jess
Comment: I haven't read where Jill Scott is absolving women of their contribution to this problem. Let's assume that we as parents are doing the of job raising our daughters to respect themselves and never lower themselves to be exploited in this way. This is not an easy task because they are constantly bombarded with these images that encourage women to flaunt themselves sexually and to act like they're not intelligent in order to be attractive to men. Then, by extention, we must reach out to other young women who may not have that immediate role model to teach them self respect. That's what Jill is doing by speaking out and I applaud her and others that are doing that. As far as Karrine is concerned, the best I can say is that when we are young we make stupid mistakes. Unfortunately, hers were High Profile stupid mistakes. I don't necessarily believe that those mistakes define you for life if you make a sincere effort to turn your life around. She can't make money if you don't buy her book, none of these people can make money if we don't buy what they're selling. If she feels speaking out about her past is going to help someone, we can question her motives forever, but she's going to do it. And judging from everyone's comments here about her, she won't have an easy time of it either. Participating in these forums are not putting any real money in her pocket.
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: dutches150- I don't want to waste a lot of time on Karrine Steffans. Again, I believe her latest actions are exploitive and not sincere. Simply.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: truly it's the end of the world and Black folks have lost their mind(s)..IMJUSTASKING arent you the only ususlayy preaching Bible and Saved Christian rhetoric...forgive me if I am wrong...I have never lived a shelter life girlie..but i still do have some common sense, dignity and pride.....there are some things that just arent cool for Black folks to do..and sucking dyck for a living is not one and certainly not becoming a celb for your sexual/kinky skills...that is what ms steffans represnets and your values obviously are condonig of DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET PAID AND GET SOME RECOGNITION.....
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Name:
khufu
Comment: interesting why no mention of Farrakhan or Dyson in these stories?
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: >IJA - Honey, I am as far from sheltered as anyone can be. I am very much a realist and have seen a lot in my life but it doesn't keep me from wanting the best for people. Like Karrin, I grew up with people putting me down continually and stomping on my self esteem. Like her, I came from the type of family that tends to lead to teen mothers/drug addictions/etc. but by the Grace of God, I was gifted with intelligence and teachers who fostered my learning.I wanted more from life and wanted to be more than what I came from. And I wanted more for the people around me, too. I still want everyone to have what they should have in life. You can be in this world and not of it and that's what I choose to be. Falling into the "everybody's doing it so it must be okay" attitude is a sad place to be and I just don't choose to be that. We should want more for our youth. We should try to do the right thing. We should be role models to young people. We should do these things. You can call me a hippie child or whatever but there have to be people in this world like me who generally care about other people or we truly are doomed.
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: khufu< yes you have me mistaken. I don't preach to anyone. I do what pleases me and others should do the same. And for the last time, I don't agree that it was a good thing for Superhead to do what she did, her motivations were sad, however, it doesn't spell doom or end of the world talk. People do illadvised things all the time (get married too fast, can't keep a job, use drugs, backstab etc), those are all on the 'moral' radar but we seem to pick and choose who we are going to be harsh toward. I mean obviously, Maya Angelou was a prostitute and we're not sitting here calling her all types of hoes and whatnot.
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Name:
ReginaBio1
Comment: Jill Scott has always been against the ugly portrayal of black women in music videos. Even the female R&B singers themselves (the beloved Beyonce' too!) are taking the low route and casting their videos/stage performances with scantily clad women bouncing around. It's everywhere! Just the other day when I was at Wal-Mart, I stopped to look at some of the clothing for young girls, and most of them look like "pole-dancing" clothes. I was outraged! This thing goes way beyond women being seen only as an object of pleasure for men, KHUFU was right, it IS BIG BUSINESS and these fools are making BIG MONEY off of not only the music and performances, but even the parapharnelia (sp?) and the clothes too! Just about every rapper out there has a clothing line, or tennis shoe. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with being sexy, but there is a time and a place for it all, and these women need to realize the harsh reality that after they're bodies start to go south, no one will care about them anymore. That's why Supahead Steffans is continually trying to milk this "Video Vixen" thing, she has put everybody on blast and now no one cares about her %*$. I agree with Harriet, Supahead is a trip.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: okay I just been sitting on the sidelines reading but IJA come again! When was Maya Angelou a prostitute? I might need to find a biography on her.
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: Price< Read "Gather Together in My Name"
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: IJA, alright thanks ... I hope I have time to pick that up for my vacation cuz I might be able to read it during two 5 hour flights
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Name:
ss69054
Comment: The Black community as a whole need to take a stance on how we are treating each other period. We are our own worst enemy and it is not getting better. Black women foremost need to learn how to accept themselves for who they are and secondly nurturing each other instead of competing all the time. The Black man also plays a role in this because they need to teach their daughters, neices, etc. how and what a real man is all about. If more of our girls see an "example" of a real man, then we wouldn't have to worry about these girls disrespecting themselves by being hoochies and so forth. Girls need their fathers just as well as boys. If not fathers, someone who has a positive role model for that young woman who would nurture her, love her and show her what a real man is. Until that day comes, we will have more Black women out here selling their souls and buying into this image that is slowly killing our values and morals that have been established in the Black Family. Black women take this issue so lightly because they think they will pull the brotha down and really in regards we are being pulled down and torn apart. HipHop is international and whatever they see and hear they will portray us to being exactly what is marketed. Black women are powerful and WE can shut anything down. Oh yes we can!!! We always have the last say no matter what. I am glad that Jill Scott is taking a stand. She is a sista of conscious and very intelligent. A true artist and the girl can blow. I will be glad to see more singers not degrade themselves and buy into the sex image just because it is the "in thing to do". Now wonder we as a people are stilling looking for the next MLK or Brother Malcolm because we have not stepped up to the plate to be leaders b/c everybody is trying to be a follower doing whatever the heck everybody else is doing while selling their soul and dignity out.
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Name:
chocdiva
Comment: Stephanie - I hope you change your mind. This Essence is one that I wouldn't measure up against the past festivals and future festivals simply because it was in a new city with new facilities and a "new" audience. I know myself and others did not make the trip solely because it was in Houston and await it's return to N.O. NOw on the Jill Scott panel. Jill has always been known to speak her truth in regards to "black love". She speaks about sistas loving brothas, brothas loving sistas, brothas loving themselves, and sistas loving themselves. I wasn't at the panel so I can't say whether she was reading from a script. But her words are always heard during her tours. They may just land on deaf ears. Every year Essence tries to get black women to recognize their worth. The last panel that I recall with substance about black women had Phyllis Stickney and Sister Ava Muhammad on the panel. Toes were stepped on and so they should. The one issue I have with Essence is that they have these panels to speak on self-love, self-worth, and self-esteem, but their pages are not as diverse as their converstations out of the magazine. Maybe it's with all the switching of their editors. Who knows. On the topic of Karrine Stephans. I read the bookd. Didn't purchase it, but I wasn't to read her story. It's a story that holds true for females out there and I'm assuming (since I wasn't there) that her presence was to show what can go wrong when you let your body and sexuality define you. I don't know what she's doing in her personal life, but hey, her story like many need to be told. I've seen her defend her lifestyle, I've seen her sound really sad and apologetic about her former life. Only she knows what path she is on now. But our babies need to know that the road she has lived is a bumpy one full of sorrow.
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Name:
ss69054
Comment: Chodiva> Girl, you said a mouth-full about Corrine. So many people are badmouthing and judging her. Only GOD can judge and truth be told there are alot of Corrines all over the place. She had enough courage to face her demons and if she did do it to get money, there may have been a young lady out there on her way to self-destruction and picked up the book and said, this isn't worth it. So while judging her, there may have been somebody that was inspired not to live in that desperate mode.
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: Price, if you got time, you should read "I know why the caged bird sings" before you read "Gather Together"It gives some insight into why her life went down the path it did.
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: Stephanie< I have said before that Essence's panels are TOTALLY disconnected from the magazine. Free from 106 and park was a host of a woman's tour they sponsored all the while hosting the most bootyshakinest show on the planet. They have interviewed Beyonce and others countless times and have not pressed them on their image. It's very contradictory for them to at one time promote a certain image in the magazine but then use another forum to lambaste that same image. I wonder if the editors of Essence even know where they stand.
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: IJA>uh sweetie, Maya Angeloo was not a prostitute. she was a Madam. and she was "a shake dancer" back in the day
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: SS69> curious...has Jill Scott ever been on BET 106 N Park??
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Name:
Grace
Comment: to:Harriet] Two different women saw her picture in S2S mag and called her ugly. She has her own look. She looked a sophisticated mess on Oprah. But on the video Fatty Girl she looked like Charlie Baltimore.
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: chassie< I haven't read the book in a while but I believe she specifically says that she did both. It's also pretty well known that she was briefly a prostitute in order to support her son.
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Name:
golfebj
Comment: Why is supahead doing any panels? She is profiting from telling all on what she did and doesn't talk about being healed. Now she just messes with bigger players in a bigger court. Ain't nothing changed.
J.I.L.L. S.C.O.T.T.....
Do your thing. I think she is one of the sexiest women (alongside the floacist from Floetry) and doesn't have to wear stuff so tight and revealing to do it.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: bigchassie & IJA, basically what y'all saying is she was loose nonetheless ... LOL!
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: Price< Yes I belive that's what it boils down too! LMAO! I believe the term is harlot, or strumpet as my mom would say.
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: PRICELESS>actually Mya Angeloo did a little bit of everything. IJA>yeah, i'm gonna have to peek into that book again.
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: It's sad that we've spent this much time talking about Superhead. I regret even bringng it up. If every little Black girl used mistreatment and low self-esteem as an excuse to lay with other women's husbands, use people to her own advantage, abandon their child, write a tell-all book, engage in unscrupulous sexual practices and seek sympathy and understanding for her selfish actions from the public then what a wonderful world this would be. That is like Monica Lewinsky polishing Clinton because she was fat!
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: Can a rapper be sensitive to us and our needs? Yes. I believe so. This is similar to the contrasting duality that was Tupac Shakur. He could be so sensitive sometimes and so hard and rough on other times. Sensitivity is equated with "softness" and rappers want a hard image. Some rap is misogynistic and a lot of that stems from the hatred that some men have for women. I have heard rap lyrics that were absolutely hateful. It is odd that rock musicians are supposed to be the rebels yet they do not spend thier time making music in which white women are constantly relegated to body parts and called out of their names.
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Name:
golfebj
Comment: Jill has been talking about this for a long time.
Album: "Experience: Jill Scott 826+"
Song Title: "Thickness"
Do a lyrics search...
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Name:
chocdiva
Comment: Karrine has every right to make money off of her exploits as do all the rappers out there making money off of their street tales. It's up to us as consumers (see Jill Scott) to determine what we'll invest in. You don't like Karrine which I understand. But her story is one that a lot of females know too well. She profited, so what. She's telling her story and someone out there needs to hear it. Plus, it's her story, her life, her consequences et al. If she comes out stronger, more power to her.
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: Ok, Harriet, not to start anything, but I just have to inquire -- If you can see the sensitivity in Tupac why can’t you see that same or similar sensitivity in Ice Cube (remember you brought him into this discussion)? Both men called women out their name, degrade women but at the same time rapped about injustice as well as both are/were incrediable actors – what makes Ice Cube a worst offender than Tupac – or am I reading you wrong?
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Name:
khufu
Comment: BIGCHASSIE LOL Apparently IJA likes to put other things in her mouth besides her feet!!! LOL
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Name:
khufu
Comment: HARIET the conversation is about STeffans is very appropriate aas she is the symbol..the living symbol of what Jill soke up against.....Steffans and Buffy the Body are the two epitomes of sexual exploitation of sistahs....sef-exploitation and "other" exploitation.......their images are the sum total(s) of what Jill expressed discontent with
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Name:
OSUN
Comment: Khufu explain Karrine's presence on the panel as hypocrisy. She was not glorifying her days as a video vixen she was emphasizing how detrimental it is/was to her and other women. Did you read the article?
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: khufu, for all those reasons that's why its important that Karrine was part of that panel speaking against the negative image in music today.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: OSUN what qualified her to speak on the panel? was it that she was a lawyer or actress? was it that she is a singer or producer? No, it was because slept and sucked her way...her sexual exploits...the fact that she was a ho...see, wake up, Osun...her credibility is her immorality? doesnt that sound a lil warped? One of the greatest lines from a film was this: "The greatest trick the devil played was in making people think he didnt exist"..from the usual suspects
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Name:
Harriet
Comment: KHUFU- I don't think so.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: see OSUN Steffans should have been a topic od discussion...or if she was going to be a panelist, it should be one where she was being held accountable and not seen as a fooken expert or celebrity...watch it, ya'll the develi playin' trixx with yo minds....she aint no celebrity...and the only thing she is expert on is gibing head and fooken? LOL man, that sheet is warped and yall keep on trying to justify that sheet
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Name:
khufu
Comment: hariet I think so and I think youre biased as a woman...I noticed that when it comes to STRAIGHT OUT "CONDEMNATION" of the exploits of women and their sexuality, some of yall rationalize hoin'.....STeffans is the dirty, inappropriate, inadequate, etc image that Jill Scott talked about.....and the fact that she is turned into a celebrity and commodified is an act of hypocrisy and damn shame......
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Name:
OSUN
Comment: Khufu, you are not connecting the dots today. If the panel is about the portrayal of women in hip hop, what would disqualify her from being on the panel. Why would you have a panel about something any topic and not have someone who has first hand knowlegde of the topic. I mean instead of having Karrine on the panel, who would you suggest Aretha Franklin. One could argue she was an industry ho. My point is her credibility stems from her first hand experience in the video industry as well as being a stripper and a kept ho. That would be like having a panel on space exploration and not having an astronaut who has been outer space on the panel. Useless!!
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Name:
OSUN
Comment: Khufu, you left out another area of Steffans expertise, being a video ho as well as industry ho. Thus, the whole point of the panel discussion. Reading your posts today remind me of the ghetto boys, "My mind playing tricks on me"
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: And this is what I'm consistently not understanding. So just LAST YEAR Karrine made a public name for herself detailing her sexual whoredom. She's been invited to sit at the table of the Holy Grail (Oprah). Now she's on a panel expressing interest in something she participated in just LAST YEAR! I don't think that she "shouldn't" be on the panel because I'm sure she can provide a lot of insight. BUT, if Curtis Jackson or Luda decided y'day that they wanted to redeem themselves by focusing (next week) on the negative impact of hip-hop, would we invite them to be a part of a similar panel or would say that "they have nerve?" I believe this is the same way people feel about Karrine "Sloneck" Steffans.
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: Someone asked a while ago what’s a video ho? A video ho is a woman who appears frequently in videos and for that to happen a woman has to be willing to bear it all to get noticed. That’s why, I believe, rappers are now getting their vixens from the strip clubs. These women are cheap (in price) and just glad to be in Joe Smoes video they’ll do whatever it take to get noticed. I saw somewhere where these strippers truly believe that appearing in rap videos can parlay into a modeling or acting career (the same thought with some porn stars). That’s why Karrine speaking at this panel is important. She gives first hand experience and knowledge on that lifestyle. Khufu, my question to you is why does one has to be a doctor, a lawyer or a candlestick maker to impart advice -- doesn't life experience account for anything? You call Cosby elitist but aren’t you doing the same thing?
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Name:
khufu
Comment: OSUN...how old are you? I thnk we have generational differences..again what are her credentials that would qualify her to be a panelist? a ho is not qualifications for me.......she should have been a topic of analysis as Beyonce for that matter...yeah, here's another one: "Beyonce's Success: PArents as Managers and Pimps" I peronsally think that her parents exploit her sexuality...but no one seems to thing there is a problem with that......generational values or consciousness? Im not sure but again..Steffans, Beyonce and Buffy the Body are worthy of study, analysis and critique not as dispensers of wisdom as panelists
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Name:
khufu
Comment: yeah I am to some extent an elitist because I expect so much more from Black people...am I elitist because I expect them to be the children of God that THEY are? Kings and QUeens? Thinkers? not mediocre. Not selling their souls, minds or azzes for silver? Because I think that self-degradation and self-exploitation is against the nature and purpose and history of Black folks, I am an elitist.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: GEMAMI a ho is not a role model for me. A ho has nothing to tell me but how to be a ho. A ho can tell me how she can screw my brains out. What does a ho have to say to me or my daughter? Anything she could possibly tell me daughter I will have already told her...how not to suck dyck to achieve fame and screw everybody and then get rich from writing about it.....AGAIN STeffan's credibility is that she is a ho...yall need to think about that %*$! becuase if you support that notion, you support the notion that immorality is worthy of praise and honoring....as a matter of fact: how many of you sistahs out there have fooked or gave head for a job or career advancement? Let's be real....
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Name:
SweetieDarlin
Comment: Well I bought Karrine Steffans book and my name is not Keisha or whatever was attempted to be implied about the women that purchased the book. I was curious about what she had to say and actually reading the book, it was sad even if she didn't specifically say do not emulate me, the lifestyle she described was no where near glamorous, it was sad. Karrine unfortunately for all the bravado, was truly foolish enough to think these men she was sexing actually cared about her, check out all her whining when she ended up on drugs and had no money. This happens a lot with younger girls whether they become video ho's or just another woman who thinks her coochie gets her over and ends up with nothing to show for it. Karrine actually does need to be on this panel because she can tell people what the real deal is, how that life is not glamorous, it is all rented vehicles, furniture and fakery, silly girls going around thinking that they have some how gotten over, yet actually have nothing of merit to show. Where do these women gets the idea that coochie is the only power---their mother perhaps? I do believe that if we are not at least trying to counter the negative images with good images, and you can not wait for T. V. and Movies to bring the good images, that's not going to happen and you will not be able to monitor what your child watches 24/7 one thing we have to do is emphasis intelligence, self worth, morals and education (sorry education does not equal intelligence.) BTW oddly enough as much as women claim to love Tupac, we had no problem with him clowning the late C. Delores Tucker when she talked about the lyrics of rap and exploitation of women in music back in the early 90s. All this is nothing new, we just haven't done enough to stop it. I get what Nightshift was saying, many women who talk about the negative impact of Video Hos do not problem dancing at the club to The Whistper Song, Laffy Taffy and other sexually explicit songs. If women want to be taken serious on the issue we need to watch the type of lyrics we groove to and purchase. Also women will give a pass to nasty lyrics if it is in R & B. BTW It isn't just women who live in poorer areas or are uneducated so don't even try to act as if it's Qwanna and 'dem over there. Sorority and Frat parties anyone? Yes I've seen all type of women shaking their tails to Back that AZZ up LOL.
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Name:
thebaddestchick
Comment: Khufu - What they are trying to say is that she has creditibility because the lifestyle they were speaking of she lived. No one is giving her praise, but we do acknowledge this is a sister that was in that lifestyle, publicly acknowledging its destruction to the black woman, and speaking out against it. Nobody aint giving her praise. But I dont think we should judge anyone either. Only one perfect ONE! If y ou want a real live example of a video ho and the destruction of a person..Karinne Steffans is the perfect person. I applaud her for coming out and admitting her faults and owning up to her demons. There is alot of people in the world and even on this messageboard that dont have the guts to put yourself out there like that for everyone to judge and ridicule. It is so easy to belittle people, but so hard to see the potential their future might have.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: SWEETIEDARLIN sadly watch some of this gospel performers now...how they dress and dance...man, Blacl folks have become accepting of a lot of bullsheet
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: Khufu, I’m not saying not to expect more from Blacks (that’s the point of this conversation) however so many of us wonder in darkness before we even see a glimmer of light. All I’m saying is Karrine is human and as such has made some mistakes and instead of crucifying her I give her credit for speaking about the negative image of women in music.
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Name:
OSUN
Comment: Khufu is not generational differences, it is the fact that you are judging the panel by who YOU think should be on it. Unfortunately you didn't get to chose the panelists for this topic. If you had it probably would have been even more ineffectual as Stephanie said it was. I think in your effort to steer the conversation in the direction you want it to go you are refusing to see how basic this is. I wanted to know what you were basing her disqualifications on. I have come to see that this discussion with you is futile b/c you are trying to make more out of what this story is about. For the last time, why should Karrine not be on the panel discussing the images of women in the video industry. I guess being a woman in the video industry who participated in creating and perpetuating these negative images is not good enough for her to be on the panel. I guess your ideal panel would consist of people who have not contributed to this image. She is probably the most qualified. Saying this doesn't excuse or promote her behaviour. I read her book(not bought) and found her life to be sad and reprehensible. Using your thought process I guess you would pair an alcoholic who joins AA and needs a sponsor with someone who is not an alcholic and does not have first hand knowledge of the temptations of alcohol.
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Name:
thebaddestchick
Comment: Khufu - What gospel artists are you referring too?
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Name:
khufu
Comment: lol the baddestchick youre so sweetly naieve...listen..sometime presence is endorsement...she should not have been there because that endorse her as a "celebtiry"...it's like the gang film that has drungs and violence and sex and in the end the drug dealer changes his mnid...MAN MOST FOLKS LOOK AT ALL THE VIOLENCE AND SEX AND DRUGS AS THE THING WORTHY OF EMULATION.....NOT THE CHANGE OF MIND.... asking her to serve as panelists validates her fame...what is she famouds for? sexin...hoin'....not for her sudden change of mind and self-discovery...they arent writing too many books about that sheet..if they were, they'd be a whole lot more written...folks are interested in steffans because she is a super ho....
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Name:
khufu
Comment: THEBADDESTCHICK i am not namig names...look at the contemporary artists even the background singers...not all of course but many especially those who have brought hip hop into the church...many whom couldnt get R and D deals so they did what was expedient for their careers.....became gospel singers..not all...many
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Name:
thebaddestchick
Comment: Khufu - I really would appreciate it just because I dont agree with you "Im naive" How about maybe you come down off your pedestal of knowledge and actually listen to other people's points of view. I dont understand you, the panel was about solving about negative images in videos. Karinne Stephans wrote a book about it. Duh!!!
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: A ho is not a role model? Now that’s funny… tell that to MLK, Malcolm X, Bill Cosby, Juanita Bynam, Aretha Franklin, Maya Angelou… as Envouge sang “Free your mind and the rest will follow”
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Name:
khufu
Comment: LASTLY end of MY sermon.stop it THEBADDESTCHICK with the "Im not judging thing" I understand what youre saying but judging from the standpoint of righteousness id permissible.....he said, "I dont judge but the father in me does and his is righteous judgement..."
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Name:
khufu
Comment: GEMAMAI you totally miss the point...we all have our sex skeltons BELIEVE ME LOL..but none of the people you named made their careers on their whoredom....sureky you KNEW THAT.....see again, youre justifying hoing as a profession LOL legit profession...what do you do GEMAMI and have you ever %*$!ed for a job?
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Name:
thebaddestchick
Comment: Khufu - you must be a reall old dude. Have you not made mistakes in your life? Or were you a product of emaculate conception? Have you never did anything you regreted? Do you or Did you not have skeletons in your closet? You speak alot about God, but even he took a murderer into leader. I dont haft to name names, because you are Khufu.. I know you read the Good Bible..you should know that one.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: GEMAMI I am waithg ever give head for career advancement or that big break?
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: I agree that this is "continuing" Karrine's celebrity. At least she's repentent this year cuz last year she reveled in it. Glad people can see the change *snicker*
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Name:
khufu
Comment: thebaddestchick no I am not old but thank God I still have some historical and cultural sense......mistakes aint the point....okay..here would you give head for the job you want? have you ever? would you screw for job advancement? Would you screw someone for 500,ooo dollars? Just answer....
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Name:
thebaddestchick
Comment: Khufu - Regardless you are no where in the right to judge anyone..and the God in you would know not to do that before looking at your own life. And in that you would never be able to judge because no human life is perfect because of the flesh and blood that runs through us. Books saids, before you point at the spec in your brothers or sisters eyes please take the plank out of your own.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: see LOL thebaddestchick you wont answer....would you screw or give head or have you for career advancement? And again that's one of the problems with how a STeffans can exist and make plenty of money, Black folks no longer challenge themselves and each other because they have allowed a religion that once fueled them to challenge immorality and social illness to become a religion to allow any hurtful and harmful and immoral act.......
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: Musb< I think karinne says what she thinks she should say, that she regrets what she did and all that, but really I think she's at least somewhat proud of herself. So, yeah, she's insincere like Harriet said but she's also right in what she says. ha! the irony.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: how do we know right from wrong if we do not judge--righteously? That's Biblically, is it not? Enough of that...THEBADDESTCHICK speak to your minister and tell him/her that they need to get a little heavier on the social significance of Christ.......
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: khufu< would I screw someone for 500,000? HELL TO THE YES (with a few exceptions of course). And I don't care what you call me.
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Name:
thebaddestchick
Comment: No I would not screw for anything. But again how can you expect Karinne to have your same morals and convictions, when it was your personal experience,grace and mercy that led you there. Karinne from what she described did not get my love that I got from father, she wasnt raised in the church like me, she didnt get that unconditional love from a mother like I did, and she didnt know God either like I do. And even with all that I still had obstacles that could have gotten me by the way side. Im not saying what she did isnt wrong. But it is more sad that anything. She is a product of what she was dealt with in life. Now it is up to her to take her life and be a good example for others because she is not the only woman by far that is going through the same thing. She is a living testimony that has the ability to save lives if she hasnt. Because of what she has been through.
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: >IJA - we know you would. You've been saying through this whole discussion that you have the morals of an alley cat. Jeez...
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Name:
khufu
Comment: see I didnt expect you to answer those questions about whether youd screw or give head...and if you did, I wouldnt expect you to say "Yes"...yopu would have said NO.....why? One) if it were true you had sense enough to know that some things are personal...2) you had some sense of shame not to let folks know what your personal sexual life is and/or 3) your belief that such acts were not moral and ethical..WELL NOT FOR YOU...so then how could you defend Steffans acts if you would not do them?
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Name:
Angel_of_Soul
Comment: Maya Angelou was both prostitute and madam. She was also a shaker dancer. She did it for the same reasons superhead "says" she did it. She was sexually abused by an uncle. She didn't speak a word for a year and then her life did a downward spiral. Poor little southern girl doing what she could for her son born out of wedlock. Why you ask, IJA, is no one calling her a whore. Well, she called herself one! Then she cleaned herself up and became who she is and has been for many years. She didn't give out the names of all the men she slept with cuz she knew it would be profitable. She spoke of herself and what she did to make herself better. Harriet speaks the truth. PERIOD. No ifs ands or buts about it. I think Karrine is out for profit and nothing else. She has a child to take care of and no more videos to pay for the lifestyle she was accustomed to. At the same time, good can come of anything. Even if she's not sincere, it may reach just one girl on her way to being what Karrine was. That alone, is a blessing.
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: queenibunz< you call it what you want, but y'all mofos up here ain't gonna have me sitting up in the house bored like somebody's grandma scared somebody's gonna talk about me cause of something i did. F*ck what people think! You got to do what makes you happy and satisfied. Part of people's problems is being so worried about what other people think. I'm sure some other people reading this board today feel the same way I do but they won't say anything b/c you and khufu, the morality police wanna jump down somebody's throats like you ain't never told a lie or f*cked somebody you shouldn't have.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: Im with you thebaddestchick but we can hold one anotehr accountable and still be loving do you think?
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Name:
khufu
Comment: and there you have one of the major reasons blackfolks are doomed: IMJUSTASKING
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Name:
khufu
Comment: in the event of a revolution I will shoot IMJUSTASKING in the head LOL
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Name:
thebaddestchick
Comment: "Thee without sin cast the first stone"
A person's past does not determine their future. You dont know what God is doing in Karrine S.'s life to make her the person that HE wants her to be.
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Name:
chocdiva
Comment: OSUN, you're making perfect sense. People's biases toward Karinne are making it impossible for them to see why she needed to be on that panel. She's a living testimony as to what happens when you lose yourself in that lifestyle. I wish there were some transcripts as to what else was said.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: IMJUSTASKING is the type of Negore that told on the slaves trying to escape the plantation...for a pork chop.....the kind who gave some azz to the massah just to sleep under the house.....the kind of negroe that Chinese people look at and Japanese people and everybody and shake they head and say: "A great and mighty people have become defacation..." a shame to their ancestors......
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Name:
khufu
Comment: CHOCDIVA who is Mike Dyson? what did he say? WHo is Tynetta Muhammad? what did she say? For steffans this event was a press junket..wake up!!
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Name:
OSUN
Comment: Thank you chocdiva, I was beginning to think I could not read.
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Name:
thebaddestchick
Comment: Khufu - If a person is saved, operating in the Fruits of the spirit, and pray that what they say is not to harm but to help yes. Because all that are saved must realize that you can never do anything on your own. Everything requires God's help. And if you are truly trying to help someone, then regardless of their reaction you know what you did is right because you were guided correctly. Because at anytime can the flesh in us rise and we be done reached back into those Before Christ Days. You planted that seed and maybe it is not meant for you to see the seed sprout.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: Im out...THEBADDESTCHICK: im still waiting: what is your world view? You have no sense of political, social or cultural anything.....
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Name:
OSUN
Comment: khufu, I guess I need to be asking your age. Your last comments totally negate whatever points you were attempting to make earlier.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: THEBADDESTCHICK name ten Black ministers prior to 1970, whose religion was manifested through their social and political actitivies?
and then cite the direct impact their activities had on the advancement for Black folks in this country.....
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Name:
khufu
Comment: GEMAMI im still waiting..I must say however I respect the hell out of IMJUSTASKING for the honesty! and when I get 265,345 dollars I hope youll take it LOL
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Name:
thebaddestchick
Comment: What does that haft to do with the conversation?
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Name:
khufu
Comment: OSUN I am as old as the Black dirt from which the Creator molded Adam's beautifully sun-burned physique...but YOU know that dont you?
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: ".....the kind of negroe that Chinese people look at and Japanese people and everybody and shake they head and say: "A great and mighty people have become defacation..." a shame to their ancestors......" like I said, worried about what others think. china with the worst human rights record of all civilized nations and the most draconian social policies in the world...do I really care what chinese people think of me? And if you want to shoot the educated, intelligent career woman, with no kids, and no diseases first then maybe you shouldn't be leading anyone's revolution. I doubt you would have many followers anyway.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: THEBADDESTCHICK...a lot..you have no world view.....no poltical perspective, no historical analysis, no cultural connection...even religion has significance in these three categories and when you cite the Biblical references you negate the social significance of God's word.....we are our brothers and sisters keepers...that means that we are we responsible yes...but that sets up a relationship of accountability as well...historically, if ministers. Black, like richard allen, king, etc, did not have some social and political consciousness---where would you be?
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Name:
chocdiva
Comment: Like I said, I'm awaiting a transcript or for someone who was actually there to write what they heard during the dialog before I pass judgement on anyone.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: I hope you know I am just joking with you IMJUSTASKING..sheet, I probably want you to have my babies before and after the revolution LOL
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Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: khufu< yes those pastors had social consciousness but they also F*CKED alot. And it didn't negate the validity of their message. And I wish you'd stop asking people questions off your african american studies exams ok. You know some history but your analysis of it is off. Coming up here tryna to be EW's Molefi Asante or something.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: CHOCDIVA and Im still saying during the planning process she should not have been invited......instead I would have come up with a panel theme'topic: "Buffy and Steffans: The Exaltation as Ho as symbol of feminine power and liberation!"
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: K – wasn’t that a movie with Demi Moore? So yes, some people would sell their souls for money. The problem with your argument about Karrine is that you hav not placed blamed or even “righteously judged” the men who slept with Karrine… how about the married men who paid for her silence. But that’s besides the point… the only point I’m making is because she lived that life she is qualified to speak out against it. Lastly, K, it’s a sin to judge… just as sinful as the promiscuity.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: THEBADDESTCHICK see, that's what I mean...someone you think because I have internalized the history that it's an exam....LOL..now, it;s IN me girlfriend....your Blackness is something you should be and live and when you do, you wont be accepting of all this BS white folks and they religion keep feeding you and killing you with
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Name:
thebaddestchick
Comment: Khufu,
Think what you want. But at least I look at Karrine and see promise and possibility. When you look at her you see opportunist. Now at your worst moment in life, if God would have looked at you the way you look at her..Would you even be where you are right now? Khufu, quit judging and get some love.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: GEMAMI..they werent panelists and Jill SCott didnt identify them as the problem! Common sense.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: I have love and it's the love of her and other Black folks that say we should hold one another to a higher calling and standard...how do you keep missing that?
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Name:
khufu
Comment: thebaddestchick...what problems do you have understanding accountability?
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: >IJA - Nobody is talking about what other people think. I wouldn't have done what blow job girl did because of what I would think of myself. I could care less what other people think about me - like me or you don't - doesn't matter. BUT I do care what God thinks and I do care what I think.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: and I am still holdong firm to the old Black folk value: If I do something wrong, tell me because I know you care about me and because you is me and we is us!
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: khufu, now you're arguing for the sake of arguing... being an educated man I thought you would be able to master basic reading comprehension... I said the problem with YOUR argument about Karrine Stephens...
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Name:
khufu
Comment: so the summary: Imjustasking sees Steffans as a role model; GEMAMI did what Steffans did somewhere for somebody and THEBADDESTCHICK....she would do it and do fifty "hail marys" to assuage her guilt...........and then do it again LOL
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Name:
justafu
Comment: I agree somewhat with Jill Scott but the last time I checked I as a black male am a dog, a cheater, on the down-lo', and solely responsible for the AIDS CRISIS! I guess you could say that our image is looking quite "GOOD" huh?!
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Name:
fuzzygoss
Comment: ^^^Amen
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Name:
sgrantla
Comment: Plezzz!
If Jill Scott had the body we would see her in a bikini too showing off her beautiful body.
This is a long draw out issue.
I bet you a Jill Scott CD if she lost weight, she would have a different view.
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Name:
Gemami
Comment: khufu, you're an azzhole... now that's official. For someone that's about love for the Black community all you have done is try to degrade others. That makes you as much of a man as R.Kelly, James Brown and the men that slept with Karrine.
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Name:
SweetieDarlin
Comment: I knew someone was going to eventually make the comment if Jill Scott or insert whatever overweight/not very shapely woman you want had a good body she would not be making comments about women degrading themselves on video. So what happens when a body beautriful woman makes the comment, is it valid then? So it's cool to have a ATM card slid down the crack of your azz, or gyrating with no clothes while the men are fully clothed, it's okay to be thought of just for your body parts, and men to sing the song wait to you see my dyck cause you have a good body. Oh yes and all the women who don't have a great body are jealous of the girls who do, it has nothing to do with demanding respect or feeling that some videos and songs degrade women cause fat girls would love to be disrespected and degraded because of their good bodies. I see now! Here was thinking Jill was a strong intelligent, beautiful, black woman with a valid point and now I found out if she had the body for a bikini she would change her thoughts and ideas WOW.
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Name:
bigheadbull2
Comment: Queenie honey I'm like you and proud of it. I love my people too and want the best for them. There are others on this board to name a few ...Mother,Harriett,McNasty,Godchild,Tommy Strong and some others whos names escape me right now. All is not lost.
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Name:
ladylove
Comment: vix·en ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vksn)
n.
A female fox.
A woman regarded as quarrelsome, shrewish, or malicious.
Why would any female want to be referred as this?
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Name:
sweetpea
Comment: I agree with Jill. When are we going to stand up and say enough is enough. We have to build our self-esteem with our girls & young women to let them know that there are choices. Learn to love & respect yourself. What you sow you will reap.
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Name:
shan
Comment: The people on this site are so sympathetic regarding Ms. Steffans, saying that she was abused and had low self-esteem and that the men took advantage of her naivete and her lack of self-love. I'm not disagreeing with that. However, Karrine is nothing but an opportunist. She wrote her book as a way to get back at the celebrities that treated her like a sex toy. No, she had no qualms with being treated as an object, so long as she could get in a video or have a couple of dollars in her hand. In the book, she put their names in it, probably embarrasing their wives and innocent children. She also listed the celebrities' names and her acts with them as a way to get the public's attention. Now she's calling herself a crusader for the young, impressionable black girls. That's just hogwash. She plans to open a personal concierge service called "The Steffans Agency and Its Beck and Call Girls." The applicants must be female, between the ages of 18-25. She's still up to her same old tricks. She talks a good game, but she isn't REALLY trying to heal herself. If she were, she wouldn't be on the cover of Smooth magazine with the nickname "Superhead" emblazoned on her picture. I know we as females should love and respect one another, but this chick needs to stop.
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