Mon, Nov 23, 2009
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Name:
Willie1986
Comment: I knew about the the renewing of the Voting Rights Act mainly because I visit dailykos.com everyday religiously. And yes I knew that Lynn Swann is running for Governor of Pennsylvania as Republican. He will lose. Kenneth Blackwell is running for Governor of Ohio as a republican. He will lose also. Kweisi Mfume is in a tighted primary race against Ben Cardin in Maryland, it go either way from the polls that I've been seeing as of late. And I didn't have to googled none that sh*t either, I've been following this stuff since last year. And I have Hillary at the bottom of list for who I want to see as our Democratic Presidential candidate. I'm putting all my money and support behind former Governor Mark Warner of Virginia, even though he hasn't declared his candidacy yet I'm pretty sure he's running. As I've gotten older, I find myself watching more CNN then I do BET.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: My man...I love what I just heard. You GO Willie!
And even if you DID google it (But I believe you straight up). At the minimum, you are in the know now.
I appreciate your readership, and I mean that sincerely.
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Name:
jab122
Comment: I too was informed about the voting rights act, and Willie I agree, I don't do BET in favor for meet the press, and I am about to turn off black radio in favor NPR. But I want to say that while I am favor of the act, I want to say lets not be fooled into thinking that it is the solution of our problems. This act does not address the issues that were present in the recent election where we were unable to vote because of long lines and not enough infrastructure to support the volume of black and latino voters. Additonally, the Act did not prevent Tom Delay's gerrymandering actions in Texas, which were somewhat supported by recent court rulings. While I supportive of the Act, it does not ensure that African American's voting rights will be fully upheld. I also wanted to address Mo's comments about Latinos. I don't know if I fully agree with Latinos knowing how to work the system, partially because a large segment of the population may not be citizens with voting rights. I think the issue of immigration rights was of discussion because it really is about big business. Business wants to be able to use their cheap labor, or use them as union strike breakers to suppress the wages of other workers. To me that was the underlying issue behind that discussion. Come on, why would republicans be concerned about the welfare of noncitizens if it didn't have to do with money! Besides, I think they were also concerned about the growth of Latinos as a voting block since they are the fasted growing population in the country, but really, I think the republican motives were more sinister.//Jenn
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Jab...I think you are right from top to bottom. I would just add that it's 'both' in regards to Latinos. I believe that Latinos do 'scare' Republicans and they also are better than we are at the ballot box. They have mobilized and put pressure on Congress with this immigration issue. They have organized a public protest level and a political level in pushing a fair and adequate bill to be drawn up.
And I would also add that Republicans are 'scared' because a mobilized mass of people who can show their power at the ballot box is one to be reckoned with...heaven forbid if the majority of the illegals become legal. I think it's forecasting on the part of Republicans. They're concerned about putting a fence up between here and Mexico, but unconcerned about Canada...
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Name:
jab122
Comment: Mo, They are unconcerned about Canada for a number of reasons, including the fact that Canadians are not crossing the border to the US for a better life. Puhleeze, they have a much better social benefit system than we do, why should they. I also say that there are some racial and SES issues there. I think the Canadians that immigrate to the US are probably, better educated, white and are more likely to want to work for what they are worth than those from Mexico. Mexicans come from such dire circumstances any job in the US is better than what they lived in Mexico. I don't think that's the case with Canada, I might even proffer to say that the quality of life in Canada is probably slightly better (this is from personal experience--I have a lot of Canadian family). I have a question, what do the people on this board feel about the recent protests over the proposed us-mexico fence or immigration legislation? I have to be honest, I am a first generation American, as my parents are from Barbados. I grew up watching my father work hard, pay taxes when he wasn't a citizen (had a green card), and then embraced this country when he became one. I hate to say it, but I don't have much support for illegal immigrants. I think the policies that put quotas on immigrant groups are racist and should be redressed, but I don't really feel supportive of folks who do break the law to come into the country and utilize scarce social resources. I am more in favor of fighting for altering immigration policies instead of granting citizenship to those who were lucky enough not to get caught coming across the border...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Oh I agree with your thesis on Canada, it's just transparent in the larger debate about 'immigration'...which shouldn't be about prior economic status.
Ellis Island was about "give us your tired, your poor" not only your affluent who don't pose a political risk...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And not surprisingly...the traffic on this board is virtually non-existent.
You'd think that at least Thunny with his supposed career at the New York Times would be able to add to the conversation...but I guess I overestimated him.
Uh, not really.
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Name:
Det2LA
Comment: Wow... I was hoping against hope that there would be more comments on this board. I for one have been guilty of getting far too involved in the goings on of celebrity. As one who works in the industry, it's easy to do, but not an excuse. I am aware of many of the issues you brought up. Thankfully, I have a group of friends who toss these things around in discussion on a regular. You did, however, provide some bits to chew on. I was thinking about "us" this weekend. It seems many of "us" have become content with where we are and are under the impression that we've made it. I wish that we were as vocal as our parents were. We certainly need to be. If we don't pay attention to what's going on, stand up for ourselves and be counted. Who will?
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: Hey Mo, The Real Latino issue is that Latino's are hard for market researchers to get a handle on. They truly vote in their self interest. They will vote for WHATEVER candidate will give them what they want democrat or republican. They are poised to be the biggest minority! Republicans cater to them to no end. This is not anit latino, it is just a fact! As for The Voting Rights Act, yeah I knew. I didn't really pay much attention to the 33 who voted against it though.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: As for the Challenge to the texas redistricting. We won nothing. There were a few districts (latin I believe -- see a thread here) that the republicans were told to fix, b/c they really screwed them.
Other than that the Supreme Court said it was okay to redistrict as much as you want.
The problem is that in states where it can be done, the democrats in power either don't seem to want to do it or can't b/c of other issues. There was an extensive article about this a day or 2 after the decision came down.
That issue will get to the supreme court again.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: Dang mo,
You got me writing too much. Traffic will be limited b/c we don't know. All we know about some candidates is that they are a democrat or a republican. That is sad. I once had some man ask me to vote for him, and sign his petition. When I asked him some questions on things tht concerned me, he was very tight-lipped, and his answers were short, and almost dismissive. There was no one around, so he could have spoken w/ me much longer. Needless to say, I didn't sign.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: As for illegal immigration, the whole thing is a mess. I'm first generation too, and my mother came here through canada legally, worked and got sponsored. Many illegal's follow the same path. To legally get into this country from some poor nations, you have to pay off people. The current system is geared to bring in people w/ money and education. Are some a drain on the system yes, but do they provide vital services, yes!
As long as there is poverty, there will be illegal immigration in this country.
And Dems & Repubs alike know this. Remember a few years ago the cabinet member who had an illegal alien nanny. Rich woman, paying some poor woman sub-minimum wage to take care of her child.... That says it all
I say make quotas a percentage of the population of the country.
And Stop giving Cubans that land on the soil, and your free pass!!! I say to stop it Castro should empty out his jails a few more times!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: xavixavi...you can write as much as you want. You obviously have done your homework, so it's here that we need to converse and further inform one-another.
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Name:
JamerDelta
Comment: xavixavi, I agree with you about the immigration issue. I am a born Jamaican, now americn citizen, but the whole immigration system needs to be changed. As for what we do and don't know Morris about what's going on in Congress who voted for what , what elections are going on etc. I think it would be more productive to write articles as a call to action to start educating and increasing the dialogue and focusing people on the issues that we can come together and act on. I'm a Pennsylvanian and absolutely agree with Willie, Lynn Swann will NOT win--neither will Rick Santorum for that matter.
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Name:
BigRuss
Comment: Hey Mo. I agree as African-Americans we need to step up the game. I want to caution on comparison of us to Latinos and their mobilization and upward movement. The thing that is different with Latinos or any other nationality that is an immigrant to US is they have land, culture and legacy. You mentioned we have been here for 400 years and nothing to show but fail to take into account we were enslaved for about 250 of those years and dicsriminated for another 100 or so before we started being ALLOWED to integrate with the process of this nation. Still as of today all we have as an identity is the color of our skin and no positive legacy that is comparable to any nation. We have handed down from generation-to-generation for all of these years across millions of families the legacy from slavery and we are supposed to all of a sudden get it?
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Name:
rikyrah
Comment: Good column. As someone who believes that they are politically aware, I am disgusted at the apathy of our community. We need to wake up; I believe my generation takes far too much for granted.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Big Russ...the short answer to your question would be, yes...we shouldn't all of sudden get it...but also yes, we should get it 'better' or at least as well as the generation prior to us.
Latinos in a present day sense don't have all of the baggage we have but we can also argue that they don't have the economic clout that African-Americans as a community have or have had. They are having to move into 'our' neighborhoods and work from there. It's not like they are coming in 'above' us economically...if anything the opposite argument can be made.
But in any event, Latino issues are being heard and I would say even are being listened to with greater intent than ours...whatever we think those are.
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Name:
rikyrah
Comment: Willie,
I disagree with you about Ken Blackwell. I believe that Uncle Tom IS going to win. I have no problem with someone being a Black Republican. What I DO have a problem with is someone who is Black, being KNEE DEEP in all the scams, shams and hustles perpetrated on the Black Voting Community of Ohio last time around. And, it's BECAUSE he was so involved in Black Voter Suppression, considering OUR history when it comes to voting...that I hope YOU are right, and I am wrong, because I don't want that traitor as Governor of anything.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: To Jamer...the column was about all of us %*$essing our degree of being informed and then taking steps to find out more.
I could have very easily listed all of the key issues and points, but I'm more about teaching 'us' to fish than drop fish in your lap each day.
Those (like you) that already get it...get it. Those who don't, probably will not be vocal in this forum today and without specifically embarrassing them or preaching per se, maybe can do a little homework (as I pointed him/her in a specific direction) and find out more.
It would be very presumptuous of me to say 'THESE' are THE issues. But I did point out some major ones, against the backdrop of the upcoming elections and how that directly relates to the Voting Rights Act. But I will take your comment to heart.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: To Rikyhah...I agree with you. I think Blackwell is going to win. I perceive him as being more about the greater good than say Lynn Swann or Michael Steele in their respective races.
Lynn Swann has impressed me as only as someone who has read the Republican talking points. He knows 'what' to say, but there isn't much depth or passion to them. He's very green and I would be concerned about voting for him if I were a Pennsylvania resident.
Trust me, I know what could happen. We have AHnold.
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Name:
poeticlyspkng
Comment: I have been engaged in the discussion on the voting rights act as Tavis Smiley has been talking about frequently over the year or two. After having seen emails about it go around and see them posted as a myth on various myth busting boards, Tavis assured us that oh, yes, this one is real.
Now,as an Ohioan, the chances that Ken Blackwell will win is very high. Come here and you will hear preachers encouraging the black vote towards Republicans mainly based on their stance on gay marriage. If he does, we should be afraid. Very afraid. He is definitely not about the people, especially not HIS people. He is about self, corporations and Bush.
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Name:
poeticlyspkng
Comment: Regarding the Latino population... I also don't know that they work the system better but they do unite for their causes. Something you just don't see blacks do here except at the King Breakfast. Very unfortunate. We have one of the largest latino populations and I believe THE largest Somali population in the U.S. and the work they do in and for their communities is mind boggling. You would think that after all these years, native african-americans would step up and step out but they all seem to prefer remaining in their own little silos. It is the fact that we are so split that contributes to the fact that we don't ALL know that our voting rights were in danger, that we don't all rally for our causes, that we don't stand together to fight to make all of our situations better.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: poeticlyspkng uniting for a cause ANY cause is working the system.
The rule is simply this...
Those who do for you, you vote for them. Those who don't, you vote them out.
I voted for a Republican the first time in my life 2 elections ago in NYC, and I feel better for it. I didn't do it b/c a preacher, union leader, or other official said so. I looked at what the man was doing for me and my community.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: btw Mo,
It's not so much that I do my homework, as my job forces me to notice things.
I co does both marketing and political research. Some of those number that are read come across my desk, or my neighbors desk and they make you think a lot.
We as a people are just not involved.
Some can name every member of Cash Money, but not 2 on the Supreme Court.
It's not just a black thing, but it is more important to our community that you know who is in office.
When people endorse, they get something in return almost all of the time.
Remember who often you see or hear that person, and I DO NOT mean during MLK.
Young people. Go work on a political campaign. The things you pick up from osmosis alone would amaze you. I won't even talk about the connections/job opportunities!
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: Sorry, but the previous rant needed to be corrected:)
btw Mo, It's not so much that I do my homework, as my job forces me to notice things. The info is right in my face on a regular basis.
My co does both marketing and political research. Some of those poll numbers that are in the papers come across my desk, or my neighbors desk and they make you think a lot.
We as a people are just not involved. Some can name every member of Cash Money, but not 2 on the Supreme Court.
We don't "value" or think about our vote. We vote what others tell us.
It's not just a black thing, but it is more important to our community that you know who is in office. When people endorse, they get something in return almost all of the time. Remember how often you see or hear that person, and I DO NOT mean during MLK day (Hilary), and what they have done for you, before you just throw your vote to who they tell you to.
Young people. Go work on a political campaign. The things you pick up from osmosis alone would amaze you. I won't even talk about the connections/job opportunities!
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Name:
jab122
Comment: Mo and others, I cosign with your observation on how sad it is that last week there were over 145 comments on a virtual unknown african american woman, Ms. Phillips, but few, tho interesting comments this week on an issue that really impacts us...that is so indicative of some of our community issues. I also think its a little sad that so many latinos from so many nations, and so many different backgrounds can moblize themselves to be a force and African Americans can't! We have similar issues and I think out differences are less than those of immigrants from multiple nations! Its sad to say, we have allowed ourselves to be side tracked by so many issues that are truly irrelevant to our future and fixate on them. I hate to say it, but some of our leadership is so preoccupied with non issues, like the number of blacks on television (its an issue but a minor one. And,really we've got more serious political hurdles to overcome). Its sad,sad, sad...
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Name:
newatthis
Comment: Hello Mr. Mo'Kelly. I have been reading articles from EUR for over a year now. And I have maybe responded on the articles a few times if that. Lately I have been drawn to your articles. I am shocked that there are only a few comments on here today. You and Thunny have been pure entertainment. But I guess today's topic is not for debate. And not just for the two of you but for many others. I will admit that I am not familiar with the other canidates running in other states. I have been trying to keep up on the voting act since I first received one of many e-mails over the last year. I have taken time to stress how important it is to get involve and learn these issues with my daughter who will be able to vote in 2007. I did know that it passed but honestly I was more informed with the information that you provided. Your information does make me want to seek out more. I am an Ohioan as well and I can see Blackwell getting in. I personally won't be voting for him. Not because he is a Republican but he has been involved in some things that I find to be very wrong. I love how Mr. Blackwell doesn't mention how he was involved with the big coin deal. And I love how our Cincinnati Enquirer only put a small article about his involvement in the paper. He, along with a very long list of Republicans, pocketed a lot of money from that scandal. Causing our Workers' Comp. program to be short of millions of dollars for those who really need it. The newspaper mentioned that he was going to pay the money back, but only because he got caught. To some it didn't matter because it was a small amount. They said that he was only doing what "everyone" else was doing. But I say doesn't it make you better when you do what's right and not be like "everyone" else? MSNBC and CNN have some of my attention with the conflict between the Israelis and Hezbollah. Finally Mo'Kelly NYT is laying off 1,050 employees. Just some FYI(smiling).
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Name:
MOTHERSHIP
Comment: I speak on this subject just about every other day. The fact that we'd rather delve in BS as opposed addressing and caucusing on issues that really and truly affect us. I posted numerous times within this past month about our unity and the Voting Rights Act. Three people responded to it.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Mo - Thanks for the info. I have to admit that I have not been keeping up with this issue (and many others) recently because I can't stomach the news right now with all of the violence taking place in the middle east. I moved recently, so I'm definitely not in the know about candidates in my new states, however I made sure to register to vote when I got my licensed. Thanks for the nudge. I need to get back in the know before elections this fall.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Oops! That should say "state" (no s) and "license" (no d)
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Yes Mothership, I've seen those posts...and yes, they largely go ignored.
But I appreciate your diligence...and yours too Angel.
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: As a black educated U.S. citizens, I am informed on what's occurring in the United States and abroad. I watch CNN, C-Span, Fox Cable News, and the local news here in Washington, D.C. On the issue of illegal immigration, I am against illegal aliens crossing our porous borders. Mexicans and Central Americans coming here have their own agenda, and this doesn't include black U.S. citizens. Most Latinos or Hispanics identify with being white, and most have biases against blacks before they come to the United States, based on a recent study by Duke University in Durham, N.C. and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Both the N.A.A.C.P. and the Congressional Black Caucus have lost their mission on addressing the issues that affect blacks. They are now too inclusive of Latinos, gays, Asians, etc. Racist Latino orgainzations like La Raza (the race) and LULAC are not inclusive of blacks. Black people need to wake up and pay attention, and stop watching BET, the NBA, NFL, clubbing, and MTV, because I foresee a Civil War taking place in the United States.
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: I am a life lone Democrat, but both the Democrats and Republicans suck. The Democrats have pimped blacks for years. Both parties are pandering to Hispanics or Latinos who many happen to be "non-citizens' on this country. Hispanics legal and illegal along with their supporters support open borders in this country. The United States is becoming two countries in one. One Spanish speaking, and the other English speaking. This is causing confusions, because as U.S. citizens, we must have something culturally in common, and this should be able to communicate in one language. Our spineless Politicians locally and nationally are pandering to Hispanics. Both black and white U.S. citizens are getting fed up with this foolishness, and there will be a Civil War. My D.C. black middle class neighborhood is being transformed into a Salvadoran barrio. Many traditional black neighborhoods in Durham, N.C. home of N.C.C.U. are being transformed into Mexican barrios. Black people are being pushed out our own communties by illegal aliens from other countries. South Central and Watts in Los Angeles were once all black, but now they are mostly Mexican, and the Mexicans in Los Angeles are attacking and killing blacks now they are in the majority, but the news media and loud mouth Maxine Waters is silent on this issue. WAKE UP BLACK PEOPLE, these so call people of color have their own agenda, and Latinos do identify with being white. Many Latinos or Hispanics are racist against Afro Latinos in the Caribbean, Central and South America. Blacks do share a cultural history with Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, and Cubans, but many Afro Latinos from these countries will tell you quick, they are not black, but Latino.
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Name:
jab122
Comment: bullcity73, I agree with some of the things you mentioned. I saw the articles in the Washington Post the other day about the study on Mexican's perspectives on African Americans, and the one about Latinos is south GA. But for me, I don't feel like we are creating two americas. I have not problem with having signs in Spanish etc. because we've done that before. Think of Chinatown (gallery Place in DC, before it became gentrified), the signs were in chinese and no one had any problem. I think that everyone should be english proficient, but I am open to seeing other languages in public as long as its not too much of a hinderance.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I enjoy the bilingual nature of any country, so I'm not opposed to that on any level. If you go to any other country seemingly in the world, there is more than one language that is featured, regardless of what the 'national' language is. It's time that we (as Americans) caught up with the rest of the world.
We should know English and master it as it is for most of us our birth language. But there's nothing wrong with existing in a bilingual society, signs, television, radio, speech...etc. We can't suffer from the same xenophobia that was leveled at African-Americans and other ethnic groups.
Let's make sure our house is in order and it won't matter what other groups do around us. If we took care of our own neighborhoods like Asians do, and own the businesses on both sides of the street, it's a non-issue. Latinos don't move into 'other' communities, they move into the hoods...because it's a free for all. That doesn't go over in Chinatown, Koreatown or even Little Italy. 'Blacktown' needs to take care of home too.
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: Why do we only focus on Spanish? We should also have signs and documents written in German, French, Russian, Polish, etc. Latinos are not only moving into hoods, but they are moving into middle class black communities. Yes, I do speak Spanish too, but I am a U.S. citizens, and my allegiance to this country, not Mexico, El Salvador, etc. We should have a common language that bind us as U.S. citizens. When I call my Bank, telephone company, HMO, I have to press 1 for Spanish and 2 for English. Why isn't this in any other language? I don't recall Salvadorans or Mexicans supporting blacks during the 40's, 50's, and 60's during Jim Crowism. Mexican Americans stated, this wasn't there problem, and their birth certificates said white, not Negro or colored. My point, this country is pandering to Spanish speakers only. If you have been in this country for 20 or 30 years, you should be able to speak English. But in most cities like D.C., where the District Government has made everything avaliable in Spanish, Spanish speakers have no need to learn English. As a U.S. citizen, Spanish is been forced on us to learn. Some employers will not hire you unless, you speak Spanish. This is ridiculous, we are loosing our culture and communities. Many black people have brown skin, so I hate the term brown people or people of color. The N.A.A.C.P. has lost it's focus on serving the black community. This is why, their membership is down to 200,000. They want to be inclusive of Latinos, gays, whites, Asians, etc. Those groups have organizations serving or looking out on their behalf. As I state earlier, I live in upper northwest D.C., and many of my middle class black and white neighbors or outraged, that many illegal aliens from El Salvador and Mexico have moving into our communites bringing their third world customers and MS 13 gangs. We have enough to deal with home grown U.S. citizens. Our health care system is being over burden by illegal aliens. Many hospitals like Howard University in D.C. and Lincoln Hospital in Durham was sat up to serve the black communities, because of Jim Crowism, but not their emgerency rooms are mostly illegal aliens from Central America and Mexico. Those countries should be improving the conditions in their countries for their citizens, instead of sending them here. With the war in Iraq, Katrina, high gas prices, and other natural disasters in this country, our economy will collapse. Liberals like Mr. Kelly want to call someone zenophobia, because they are against illegal immigration. We are a nation of laws, and we should protect our sovereignty. Mexico has one of the strictest immigration policies in our hemisphere. I am glad other blacks like Dr. Claud Anderson, Terry Anderson, Dr. Frank Morris for Dean at Morgan State University and former Executive Director of the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation, and other blacks share my views.
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: Forgive my grammatical errors, because I am a fast typist, and the subject of illegal immigration is a sensitive topic for me, because I am seeing my traditional Ward 4 neighborhood being transformed into a Salvadoran village, and the tension is high is D.C. between Salvadorans and blacks. And in parts of the D.C. suburbs, there are tension between whites and Central Americans. I tell you, there will be a Civil War in this country in the near future.
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Name:
jab122
Comment: Bull, I kind of feel you and I kind of don't. I too grew up in the suburbs of DC and have watched the transformation. I think Spanish is used because its the one language that is universal to people from south and central america for which we do have a great deal of legal and illegal immigrants. Not to mention the fact that White america created the border with Mexico which made people of Mexican decent automatically Americans when they created Texas, California and other states. For that reason I think there is an inherent need to not only embrace people of Mexican or Hispanic decent in the US but also be more open to their culture. As for you being outraged at the influx on new immigrants to your neighborhood, I again am torn with your perspective. If these people are upstanding citizens and just happen to be Latino, then so what? I'm sure not all of your white neighbors are happy to have you as a resident regardless of how upstanding you are! But if the new citizens do bring the gangs and other social ills with then I would agree with you that I would not be happy about them moving into my community either. But honestly that would be the same for if they were African American, white, Asian, blue or purple! I don't feel the need to be exclusionary. While Howard University hospital was built with African Americans in mind, isn't the underlying principle of that institution was serving the underserved? Wouldn't these immigrants count as the underserved? Times change and so will some of our institutions and I don't think that just because Howard originated serving the Black community it must remain that way, even though I still say that it primarily does by virtue of its location in DC. I agree with you in that our organizations do need to refocus to really advocate for the rights of African Americans and to improve our quality of life, but honestly, I feel like that's a pipe dream as the organizations are so far off course that it will take a major upheval to get them back on track. We cannot blame south and central american immigrants for this problem, the blame lies squarely with our leadership, or lack thereof. Finally, Bull you said that we are losing our culture, but I ask does the influx of a new population into your community result in this loss? If so, wouldn't it be more appropriate for you to live in other sections of the DC area where our folx congregate like, Mitchelville, or the Gold Coast or some of the safer parts of SE? I am not questioning your blackness at all, particularly since I too live in a mixed middle class suburb in N. Virginia, but I am just trying to understand your logic. If you feel that new folx in your community are a threat to culture, then why not immerse yourself in a more homogenous community? I surmise that you probably feel like me, where I prefer mix neighborhoods because diversity is actually a good and interesting thing, and culture does not have to exist in a racial vacuum.
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Name:
jab122
Comment: Mo, I emailed you once asking why you didn't do more political articles, and I think one of the points you made was that it would not be as well read as an entertainment column. I think this column and it low level of response by the readers sadly proves your point.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: Mo,
Something is wrong here, I don't remember disagreeing w/ u on anything.
Almost all countries have a national language. Hablo un poquito español, but I would have to know a lot more spanish than many spanish people know english to get along in most of those countries.
I don't have a problem w/ dual languages. I don't have a problem w/ dual cultures. Where I draw the line, is people living here for 30 years, and knowing less than 100 words in english. I lived in India, for 6 months, and I picked up about 25 words (enough to get me by). It says something that you don't care to pick up english. They have many of the driver's tests in spanish, but MOST of the country doesn't have spanish signs. If I get hit by you, and there are no cops around, we both need to communicate. If your child is hurt, an emergency worker shouldn't be expected to understand your language.
I do agree it would be nice to catch up to the rest of the world and learn more than 1 or 2 languages, and spanish is a great %*$et on resumes, but English should be a priority. Try going into ANY spanish country not knowing spanish, and expect to own anything, even a little bodega, or a restaurant.
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: Jab122, I like in a mostly all black community here in Ward 4 close to the Gold Coast. As I black U.S. citizen, I do have a history in this country. My family goes back almost 400 years to slavery in both North and South Carolina. Unfortunately, first generation Caribbeans don't understand this. Many support open borders. As I stated many Salvadorans and Mexicans have a disdain for black people with their raicist attitudes based on skin color and hair texture. Yes, I welcome anyone into my community, but I don't want anyone moving into my community destroying it with their third world customs. Yes, now I have MS 13 gangs and STC (Street Thug Criminals) from El Salvador in my middle class black neighborhood. Why should I have to move? Central Americans and Mexicans are everywhere in this country, therefore where am I going to move? If they are here illegally, then they should go back to their countries. Let them protest for their rights back in their countries. I agree with xavixavi comments. If U.S. citizens were to move to Mexico, Central and South America, we would have to learn English. They would not pander to us, and especially black U.S. citizens.
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: I think Diversity is destroying this country. This is how most liberals think like Barak Obama. Many West Indians have a disdain for U.S. blacks. Also, I know many people in Northern Virginia both black and white, are fed up with illegal aliens, and our government pandering to Spanish speakers. Herndon, Virginia was a good example, when the Town Council was replaced, because former Councilmembers supported Day Labor Sites for illegal aliens, and they got voted out of office. All 5 black candidates running for mayor in D.C. have stated, they would support Day Labor Sites for illegal aliens with District tax dollars. We have so many unemployed black U.S. citizens in the District, but these idiots want to support illegal aliens. U.S. BLACK CITIZENS HAD BETTER WAKE UP SOON. I am referring to blacks who have a long history in this country back to slavery, because many first generation Caribbeans don't have any history in this country, and many think they are better than U.S. blacks. I have been to many Caribbean countries, and they are poor, but their citizens want to come here with the attitude, they are better than U.S. born black citizens. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Well, to say 'diversity' is destroying this country and be a proud African-American is contradictory. The country wasn't diverse in 1776, it was just white folk and we were slaves.
'Diversity' can't begin and end with Black folk. We can possibly argue that this country has been ill-prepared to adequately address and accept diversity, but to say 'diversity' is the root of all evil is misguided in my estimation.
Of course 'illegal' immigration is a problem, but to think that the WHOLE of immigration has to do with people of Spanish descent is also misleading. There are presently 1.5 million Asian immigrants...they are moving into middle class and UPPER class neighborhoods. And we know for a fact that in THEIR neighborhoods the signs are in THEIR language.
Immigration historically has ALWAYS been of poor peoples. Once again, look at Ellis Island, the Polish, Italian and other European immigrants were mostly poor and did not speak English.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Are you saying that THAT diversity also contributed to this problem or was that immigration ok?
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: What meant to say was, Diversity is destroying this country, because we are becoming of nation of many languages other than English. English is the bond that keeps us together as a nation and citizens. You are correct, there are other illegal aliens in this country besides Spanish speakers, but illegals from Central, South America and Mexico make up the majority of illegals in this country. There are many illegals here from the Dominican Republic and other caribbean islands along with Europeans. I am against illegal immigration period, and we must put a cap on immigration to this country, because the U.S. can no longer take in the world's poorest citizens. By October of this year, the U.S. population will be 300 million people. Our resources are becoming limited. This country can send financial help to countries around the world, but when Katrina occurred, our government was slow to response to help black, white, Latino, and Native American citizens. We must take care of our own citizens. Mexico and El Salvador need to improve the conditions in their countries. If the U.S. opened it's borders and let everyone come here, this country would collapse.
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Name:
cinnamonqueen
Comment: I loved this article and the comments. I don't know where to start, but since I'm in a rush I will say ditto to most of the comments. Mostly we need to not just agree and receive enlightenment, but become more aware and more active. You can't tackle every issue at once, there are too many. You find one and focus on it and make changes. Someone said,
"Latinos don't move into 'other' communities, they move into the hoods...because it's a free for all." We can't go to their neighborhoods and do this, but they come to us and have mad success. Even in the hood driving the other day with friends i saw previously empty lots w/ nice brick houses, blacks would say i'm moving out of neighborhod to get better house, others come in and build newer, nicer homes in the neighborhood. Sorry for typos or grammatical errors, but i'm rushing.
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Name:
jab122
Comment: Bull, I don't know if your references about being of first generation Caribbean decent are directed towards me, but if they are I will say this. I was born in the US and I consider myself to be everybit African American as the next person on this board. I recognize my background may be different from other African Americans, but that's indicative of the diaspora. There is no one true African American experience, and I would take offense to someone saying I was less of an African American because because my family hailed from another place. I have lived here for the bulk of my life and trust me if you met me in person, you would never know otherwise. I do not consider myself better than anyone else, and I am just as appalled by past and current racism that existed in this country as any African American who never lived through the actual events. Not to mention, lets not forget that people from the Caribbean have played integral roles in American society (e.g. Chrispus Attucks and Marcus Garvey). So rather than to separate us even further, I wanted to dispel any myths about people of Caribbean decent and me in particular. Further, I disagree with your perception of people from the Caribbean have disdain for African Americans. If you go to any island you will see the people (as many places in the world) emulate what African Americans do. I think people from the Caribbean have the same level of disdain as any other african American who holds a modicum of disdain for those African Americans and others who are just straight up triffling! As for supporting open borders, I don't support them because personally I don't think that this country has the social and politial infrastructure to support them. However, I do think the policies and guidelines that govern who is allowed to become a citizen are racist and should be revised. Finally, lets be real Bull, I don't think that the lack of funding for the Katrina disaster and other social ills in this country could be attributed to supporting Latino immigrants. Why don't we lay blame where its belongs, how about the war in Iraq? Or the money and tax write offs that big businesses get which undermine the nation's ability to fend for itself! Its nice to always point at another race or another segment of a population and call them the problem, but trust me there is always someone who is saying the same about you. The only wise thing to do as you have suggested is to advocate for yourself, but to do so does not require you to tear down others...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And just FYI...this is really good what's going on here. I appreciate all the input. I'm fascinated by the different views and experiences, all intelligently articulated. We may not 'agree' but we're definitely better informed because of each other.
And on a side note...my 'friend' Thunny is posting on the ex-Destiny Child scenario, but works at the New York Times (allegedly) and has no comment whatsoever on this subject? Neither he or Musbdeherbs?
I think that says it all...
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Name:
Kofi
Comment: I think topics such as this will shake out the people who are truly interested in the issues the impact that black community and those here purely for entertainment. The two groups are not mutally exclusive. I have been keeping up with the voting rights act issue but more importantly we really really need to keep an eye on the issue with the Diebold voting machines. These machines don't have a paper receipt and they are subject to being hacked into. Then there is the issue going before the Supreme Court regarding Georgia's requirement that all voters show picture ID before voting. There is the issue of the erasure of black votes in Fl by classifying people as felons and erasing them from the voter rolls. If these issues are not addressed 1) they will come back to bite us in the midterms and 2008 and 2) The voting rights act will be a moot point.
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: FYI
Booker Rising: A site for black moderates and black conservatives
Wednesday, July 12, 2006
Study On Latino Views Of Blacks
Latino immigrants bring negative attitudes toward blacks with them from their home countries rather than develop them after they arrive here (hat tip: Independent Conservative). The study, which was done by researchers at Duke University and the University of North Carolina, will appear in the August issue of the Journal of Politics and analyzed survey data drawn from Durham, N.C. residents in 2003.
The researchers chose Durham because of its nearly 500% increase in Latino population between 1990 and 2000, and its black population spans social class. Latinos - most of whom have ties to Mexico - more often identified with whites than blacks, although whites were unlikely to see themselves as having commonality with Latinos. Blacks were more tolerant of Latino immigrants than Latino immigrants were of blacks. 58.9% of Latino immigrants said few or almost no blacks are hardworking, nearly one-third said few if any blacks are easy to get along with, and nearly 57% said few if any blacks could be trusted. However, only one-third of blacks said they distrusted Latino immigrants; 42.8% said most or nearly all Latinos are easy to get along with; and 72% characterized them as hard-working. Negative views toward blacks tended to be higher among Latino males but lower among those with more education. Although it was too small to be statistically significant, some evidence suggested that unfavorable perceptions lessen with time spent in USA.
Latinos seemed unlikely to have absorbed the attitudes from whites, the researchers said, mostly because whites were more positive toward blacks. Only 9.3% of whites said few blacks work hard, only 8.4% said few or no blacks are hard to get along with and only 9.6% said few if any blacks can be trusted. 78% of Latino respondents said that they have more in common with whites than blacks. However, white respondents said they have more in common with blacks -- 45.9%, as opposed to 22.2% saying they have more in common with Latinos. Blacks were split on whether they have more in common with Latinos or whites -- 49.6% and 45.5% respectively.
My response: So much for that black-brown coalition that liberal leaders keep trying to claim. Reality sets in here. But yet we are supposed to back 'em up on illegal immigration, even though it undercuts our economic progress? Ain't gonna happen, especially when it doesn't benefit us. And I smell political correctness in the white respondents' responses re: blacks.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: You're absolutely right about the voting machines Kofi...you'd think in 2006 we could find an acceptable electronic alternative to punch cards, given that most of all our banking, financial and general work is entrusted to electronic devices.
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Name:
jab122
Comment: I agree with you Kofi and Mo, but I have to admit, I'm still slightly suspicious of electronic alternatives that are used solely, just because they seem so vulnerable to hacking and misuse. I am interested to know how do other countries account for their votes? But I am guessing that not mater what means we use for voting, it will probably always be corruptible.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: After what happened in Florida in 2000, I'm not of the opinion that punch cards are any less susceptible to voter fraud. I think 'paper' gives us a false sense of security and not necessarily any extra insurance against fraud. I liken it to my parents who at one time refused to use ATMs but eventually came around. And then they refused to bank online and eventually came around. We have been historically obsessed with 'paper.' Granted, the present electronic voting machines are NOT up to snuff, but that's separate and distinct from eventually moving into the 21st century with our voting practices.
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Name:
Willie1986
Comment: I'm cool with electronic voting as long as it has a paper trail. And I don't trust companies like Diebold, where you have the chief executive of the company openly campaigning with Bush in 2004 saying he's commited to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to Bush. You can't help but to think something fraud is going on.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Very good point. Are you SURE you're a hip-hop head Willie?
:)
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Name:
Willie1986
Comment: All day everyday. But to be honest with you the last 2-3 years I've been more engaged in politics rather then worrying about the latest rapper to get killed. Hip-Hop is boring right now. Politics keeps me on my toes. But don't get me wrong, I still love Hip-Hop, it's just not so appeasing to me at the moment.
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Name:
jab122
Comment: Dang, Willie is educating us this morning! but my question is what other alternatives are there. I agree Willie that a paper trail is ideal to accompany the electronic vote but hmm,I see that its does not insure against fraud. I wonder if the use of bio-markers (finger print/retinal scans etc.) could be use to verify voter identity and give individuals access to vote. I think those kinds of indentifiers are harder to falsify, and the technology is there, but it would require a great deal of work to get something like that up and running and I can imagine people not wanting to part of a large biomarker database... Just some random thoughts over breakfast and diet coke...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: To Willie's original point: I bet the Democratic ticket will be Hillary and Mark Warner as the VP.
I don't think she can win, this country just won't allow it. Then again, there are more women than men in this country...but I don't know whether it can happen.
The Republicans are a bigger mystery. McCain is too old and Jeb Bush doesn't seem to be positioning himself in a way to develop a national identity for an election only two years away.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: On the subject of electronic vs. paper voting. I'm for it, but paper trail is just a false sense of security. I can tell a machine to print anything, but tally something else in the memory.
The difference between voting, and banking is that at every step of the way, you have someone concerned that everything is on the up and up. If too many people find that a bank is cheating them even a penny, that bank will have fewer customers.
If the party who won finds out that the voting machines were wrong, then we will have a decades long inquiry till people forget. Voting isn't important to us. When it finally becomes important is when electronic machines will have enough safeguards, and when they will put enough tax dollars into them.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: While we are at it, I'm totally against the states deciding who can and can't vote. To me once a man has done his time. The slates clean. I don't like that some states then say he can't vote.
Voting laws should be on the federal level!
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Name:
jab122
Comment: Xaviaxavi, I wholeheartedly agree with you, states should not have the right disenfranchise those who have served their time! I am not sure of the origin of that law, but I am sure it was intended to condense power in the ruling class. As for future presidential pics, I am doubtful that Jeb will run, afterall, he's had enough trouble managing his drug prone family, I am doubtful that he really can run a state let alone a country. And I don't think that America is ready for the Bush Dynasty, they are not the kennedys. I don't think that this will be the year for Hill. I blame it on the fact that everyone is watching her every move and public opinion is swaying too erratically with each report. However, I am hopeful for McCain. I am not a Repub., but I admire McCain for his stand up style of not always kowtowing to the party line and wanting to work with the Dems. I think his moderate style could be very appealing to voters on both sides and they may overlook his age. What do you think about Edwards for the next election?
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: John Edwards of North Carolina? I'll answer that question two ways. Historically, Dems have thought that to win, you need to have a shared ticket of a southerner and Easterner to win. Clinton (Arkansas) and Gore (Tennessee) was a weird exception...and the Easterners of Kerry and Dukakis didn't manage to energize anyone.
BUT...Edwards teamed with a STRONG Easterner (other than Hillary) I might be intrigued.
I'm just always leery of any member of a failed ticked coming back a second time. It's not like running for mayor, you don't get multiple chances to get it right. You're usually one and done, regardless if you're the VP or not.
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Name:
bigheadbull2
Comment: LOL@okelly...new york times. You are so bad and yet I still love you
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: Unfortunately, too many blacks vote Democratic, and the Democrats have pimped the black vote. If people on here were born in the 40's, 50's, and 60's will know, the Democrats were known as the Dixiecrats, and they were racist, and rebelled against any Civil Rights legislation. At present, I am registered Blue Dog Democrat, but I am changing to an Independent, because both parties suck, and most U.S. citizens are fed up with both parties. I concur with xavixavi, if a former convict has done their time, they should be able to vote. You have some places like Takoma Park, Maryland letting "non-citizens" vote. Voting Rights should be held for U.S. citizens only. The Democratic party and Republicans are pandering to get the Hispanic vote, although many are illegal aliens. This is why I don't support giving citizenship to people who crossed our porous borders illegally. I read in several U.S. newspapers online, the N.A.A.C.P. membership is down to 200,000 from 500,000, because most blacks feel, they have lost their original mission. (to look out in the best interest of U.S. blacks) Hispanic organizations like La Raza (the race) and LULAC have more political clout, than the N.A.A.C.P. In closing Latino or Hispanic is not a race, but a culture, because many can be white, black, indian, Asian, and mulatto. There are many black U.S. citizens who are not registered to vote, and some are in my family. There is too much apathy in the black community on most issues. I think, the November election will have a great turnout, because of the illegal immigration issue. No that this madness is affecting all white communities like Sterling and Herndon, Virginia, whites are speaking out against illegal aliens. I say, send them all back to their countries. Illegal is illegal!!!!
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Name:
MOTHERSHIP
Comment: Bullcity, I agree, I'd send all their azzes back as well. Cloggin' up our passageways and the got the nerve to catch an attitude with you like you don't belong here! Mo' I think Hillary may have a more than a passable chance of becoming president.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Bullcity...you are in fact incorrect. The DIXIECRATS were formed by Strom Thurmond while he was a Democrat...as a direct response to LBJ and the leadership of the Democratic Party getting behind the civil rights movement.
The Dixiecrats eventually dissolved and the overwheming number of them became Republicans as did Thurmond.
So when you mention the Dixiecrats, know that they only came to be as DISSENTERS of the Civil Rights movement and were a SEPARATE party altogether. The Democrats were NEVER known as Dixiecrats. I have to call you on that point.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Correction: I meant Harry Truman, not LBJ.
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: My point was, the Democrat like Thurmond abd others were segregationist. A Republican, Lincoln freed the slaves, and a Republican Reagan sign into law the Martin Luther King bill. Your point was well taken, I didn't clarify myself well on my statement, sorry. And to you MOTHERSHIP, I understand where you are coming from. I have lived in Washington, D.C. most of my life with the exception of being born in Manhattan. My neighborhood has been tradionally middle class black for over 50 years, and these illegal aliens from El Salvador are trying to taking over. 3 weeks ago, a black female friend asked a Salvadoran to stop making noise over her in an efficiency apartment with 3 children, he called her the N word and slammed the door in her face. As a child, myself and my cousins were sent down south from NYC, Philly, Baltimore, and D.C. Now, I don't know Durham, North Carolina. It's like being in Mexico, and my black relatives and lifelong black and white Durham residents are outraged at this invasion. Many of these illegal aliens from El Salvador and Mexico have gotten more arrogant and rude. It's like they are demanding rights, they are not entitled too as illegal aliens. They are having babies in large numbers (anchor babies). Hospitals, schools, and other social service agencies are overburden with an addition of illegals. It was stated in the Washington Post, Holy Cross Hospital in Silver Spring, Maryland is overburden with illegal aliens, and they are having as many as 24 babies a day. They are having these children, because once born, they are U.S. citizens. Mock my work, our economy is going to collaspe with this war, natural disasters, illegal aliens, and giving money to other countries. Yes, I do speak Spanish fluently, and I hide behind my color being black, because most don't know I speak Spanish, and when they say something racist or negative about black people, I fire them up in Spanish. I agree MOTHERSHIP send their azzes back to their countries. If these were large numbers of blacks from Haiti, the Caribbean, and Africa coming here, you better beleive this would be stopped. This country has some racist policies. The U.S. need to put a cap on immigration period. We are the most generious country in the world on immigration. MOTHERSHIP, there will be a Civil War in this country soon, because of this illegal immigration. Hopefully these NEGROES who think Salvadorans/Mexicans are their brothers, will wake up and realize, they don't give a sh--- about blacks. They are pushing their own agenda, and it's about Open Borders and bringing all their families here. Listen to www.theterryandersonshow.com Terry is one of the few black talk show host speaking out on illegal immigration, and how it's hurting illegal immigration.
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: I meant to say black radio talk show host Terry Anderson in Los Angeles, is one of the few blacks to speak, on how illegal immigration is hurting native born black U.S. citizens. Also Dr. Frank Morris former Dean at Morgan State University, and the former Director of the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation has spoken out against illegal immigration. I have mete them both on Capitol Hill, and they are some smart brothers on this issue.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I would think that most of us are in agreement and against 'illegal' immigration. And that word 'illegal' is key. But the question would be bullcity73, is why you seem to be of the opinion of being against LEGAL immigration.
Or did I read your comments wrong?
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: I am against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. I never said, I was against legal immigration. I have a West Indian friend who just applied for his citizenship, and I support him, because he came here legally, and got his green card. He and others like him, are outraged that, they went thru the legal process, and other nationals are crossing our porous borders illegally, and some Politicians want to give them amnesty and citizenship. Yes, I watch Lou Dobbs Tonight every afternoon on Broken Borders.
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Name:
MOTHERSHIP
Comment: Don't even get me started on their rudeness. To be continued.....
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: lol lol MOTHERSHIP, please share your opinions on this subject, because I would love to hear your comments on this issue, because so many blacks are afraid to speak out on this subject in fear of being called a RACIST. What about the organization LA RAZA (the Race) How many blacks belong to this organization? Maybe messy Jesse and Al are members. lol These so called black leaders don't represent me. What a bunch of self serving losers.
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Name:
MOTHERSHIP
Comment: Bull, you know I don't bite my tongue on nathan! LOL! But when one is illegal, you don't have the luxury of looking down with distain on anybody. I worked on Jesse's campaign. In my opinion, Al is the only one out there who at least gets involved with the thorny issues and call them out on it. What we need to do is become more mobilized, organized and informed with our shyt and then create an impact that can't be ignored.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: Here is an AP article on why & where the hispanic vote will be important.
The main reason, as I've said before, is though they tend to vote democrat, republicans can sway them -- that plus the fact that they are a growing minority. Blacks, contrary to some media reports, are not having as many babies as they used to. I need to find that study, but for now, if you're interested...
http://blackvoices.aol.com/black_news/canvas_directory _headlines_features/_a/hispanics-will-play-pivotal-rol e-in-2006/n20060716114509990004?cid=771
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: President Bush stated, he will sign the legislation extending the Voting Rights Act passed recently by Congress. Hopefully Bush will take illegal immigration serious, because many local municipalities are being overwhelmed. Mothership read this article. http://www.commonvoice.com/article.asp?colid=5447
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Name:
bullcity73
Comment: MOTHERSHIP and others, read this article sent to me by a friend in Los Angeles. http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2 0060723/NEWS/607230383/1002/NEWS01
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