Mon, Nov 23, 2009
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Name:
jab122
Comment: Good morning Mo' and the gang,
First, Mo' thanks for another great article that is of relevance to our current global, social and political climate. I agree with you Mo, that the US is being inconsistent with how they address 'rogue states' like N. Korea in comparison to Iraq, but I think we all know the reasons why Iraq is in its current state. I believe that Bush not only wanted to create, or build upon his father's legacy from the gulf war, I think he had interests in oil in the gulf, and I slightly suspect that going to war was also used as a means to boost the economy. I think one of the reasons why the administration is being soft on N. Korea is in part their ties to China, one of our major trade partners, the dwindling military level that is already split between Afghanistan and Iraq and points in between, and the ensuing outrage from Americans over having our soldiers die for causes that are of not immediate relevance to us. As for the Israel-Hez fighting, I am not sure if there will ever be a point where each side says enough. I almost see to decimated factions, fighting to the death. I am very perturbed over the fact that Israel not understanding the predicament of the Palestinians who were displaced by outsiders from their homes, which is similar to what had happened to the Jews previously. From what I understand, Israel is not only the agressor, but they also have Hez prisoners too. I understand that Hez is willing to make a trade but Israel is not trying to hear it. I am not saying that I side with the Hez, but I think Israel's rigid stance on the formation of their country, what they are entitled to, and their interactions with their surrounding neighbors will be their downfall. Much of the differences between the factions are based in culture and religion, and those are concepts that are so closely held and guarded by individuals that they are willing to fight to the death for. I think unless Israel opens their eyes about their immediate environment and the role they play in how they are viewed by their neighbors; and until they and the US can be at peace with the fact that some countries or regions will just not adopt and espouse our values--the way we want them to, wars like this will continue.
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Name:
MrsPhoenix
Comment: Thank you Mo & jab122! I grow weary of the increasing pro-Israel sentiment as if it's some innocent country full of freedom fighters....please!!!!
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Name:
jab122
Comment: MrsPhoenix, I agree. Yes, they have been persecuted, but to turn around and do the same to people who are just as innocent makes no dern sense! And above all, its just not wise when you are surrounded by people who are sympathetic to those you are displacing! What gets me is why does the US so blindly acquiese to some of the things they do? They are not always right, just as we are not...and by providing them with more weapons to fight the Hez, is not going to improve our image with Arab world one bit.
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: Why do we acquiese? Stubborness? Obstinate? Unwilling to back off from a path that has proven foolhard? Cause we(American government) are no better?
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Not by age but by knowledge is wisdom acquired.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: My 'wisdom' is telling me that serious subjects don't do well on EUR...back to the high sugar, high fat diet it seems. The 'nutrional' stuff is always left on the table.
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Name:
jab122
Comment: Unfortunately, I have to agree with you Mo'...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Haven't heard from the NY Times Reporter Thunny since the last 'pizza' I served here.
Coincidence? I think not.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: these mofos can fight indefinitely ... in other words they will never have enough unless someone is waving a white flag and them hot heads don't believe in surrender
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Name:
BigRuss
Comment: This world has never had peace. It is not a question of if Israel or Hezbollah has had enough it is a question of if the world has had enough. The only way "peace" is acheived in this world is war. this is unfortunate but it is true. If what I am saying is a lie then think for a minute how long we would have peace if everyone layed their weapons down. Some country that had no chance before would try to pick up the ball and run. Then we would be back in this mess.
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Name:
Kofi
Comment: I remember watching a series on Viet Nam. They were talking to one of the generals and negotiators a man named Lai doc to (sp) These talks ocurred during the secrete peace talks between he and Henry Kissenger. Lai Doc To told Kissenger "how can you say you are fighting for democracy when you unlease dogs and fire hoses on your own citizens." He was referring to the civil rights struggle. Another thing he said was "you Americans will never win this war. We fought the Japanese, we fought the French and we fight the Americans. I fight you. My children will fight you. My childrens children will fight you and one day we will be free." Until Israel discontinues its genocidal ways, there will be no peace.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Great point Kofi...I remember that documentary. And you're absolutely right...generations upon generations unborn will continue this fight. It's unwinnable.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Kofi, I have seen that interview many times and Lai Doc was telling the truth ... I am still amazed that America feels that it is its duty to bring democracy to any country ... we fought our own Civil War and we fought our own Civil Rights War/Movement so let those folks fight for whatever it is that they want and America stay out of it .. oh my bad that can't happen cuz even Oliver North admitted on Hannity & Kolmes that oil is involved
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Priceless you're correct. We're 'exporting' Democracy, but smuggling oil in the crates.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I should say, exporting democracy but smuggling oil back in, in return.
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Name:
jab122
Comment: Priceless, America is just such a hypocritical country! We are not satisfied when we do bring "democracy" to a country, we are only satisfied when the democratic country bends to our ways! Can you imagine how the US will react to if the Iraqis democratically voted in leadership that was anti-American, or capitalist? Bush would absolutely S^!t himself and we'd be in war again...this time over some other trumped up charges...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Well that's already happened with the Palestinians who voted in Hamas and Bush pitched a bytch in response.
It's not about 'democracy' but about shaping the policy through leaders we've appointed to lead their 'democracy.'
You're right...democracy is fine as long as we approve of the leadership.
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: jab122, I have always said that America is the biggest hypocrit and we will certainly tell other people how they should live (i.e., be christians, no WMDs,) but if any other super power tried to dictate to us we would see that as reason to go to war ... One thing I do see about to happen is that alliance with Bush and Tony Blair cuz you know Blair has seen many incidences to solidify his suspicion that Bush is an idiot and Blair gonna start to think why am I turning my people against me and gaining more enemies for this fool ... America has even been hpocritical about how prisoners are treated
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Name:
Priceless
Comment: Last night I was kind of surprised that all the pank conservatives were jumping on the Arabs for the racist cartoons of Condi ... they had this guy on The Factor trying to explain that crap and even Bill O'Riley wasn't buying that ... once upon a time a black woman could fare okay in the Middle East but they don't have a good word for us now that they have met Condi who delivers Bush's double plus good duckspeak for him *sucking teeth*
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Name:
Story2tell
Comment: Israel will always feel justified as long as they have such unwavering support from our government. And to the rest of the world, it would seem that "America" as a whole supports Israel when so many Americans do not. It turns world opinion against us, and we have to wonder when the next 911 will be. I had long considered Ariel Sharon to be a terrorist, I know he is not in power due to his health status now...but that is exactly how I thought of him.
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Name:
SpelmanRho
Comment: A lot of the problems in Africa (I just refuse to call it the Middle East) are due to the history of colonialism. The terminology has changed but the intent is the same. Democratization of the Arab nations in Africa is American speak for colonialism. Most of the Arab countries in North Africa have been there and done that are unwilling to go back. Israel is seen as a willing cohort of modern colonialism and in that respect will always be a target. I'm just upset with everyone involved. Other people's ideological myopia is costing real people their lives. Who are we or anyone to decide that our ideas are worth someone else's life ? >BigRuss: That's not peace; It's a game of chicken. And again, other people's lives are in danger because of the modern nuclear arms race. Violence only begets violence. But I hear your point in that there has not in the history of humanity been a manner in which people have been able to co-exist with out the use of punishment to dissuade those who are economically or militarily stronger from impose their will on those who are weaker.
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Name:
BigRuss
Comment: SpelmanRho. You captured my point correctly. I would like peace like anyone else but I realize the human condition will not permit this. Scholars can theorize all day about how peace can be achieved but peace in that sense is a pipe dream.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: "Democracy". Palestinians -- you know the ones who were LIVING on that land before Britain & the U.S. decided to get together and GIVE it to Jewish people for turning their back on them.
Israel has the power to block funds from Palestine.
Any person who has a Jewish mother (definition of a Jew) has the right to come back to Israel -- a land they haven't seen for over a thousand years, but Palestinians who left a few decades ago, can't come back to a land they remember and walked on before.
I'm not anti-semitic, but that's just unfair.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, non-Jews living in Israel can't vote. Hmmmm
Have we forgotten that Israel has nuclear weapons, but the U.S. and Britian don't worry about that.
Israel doesn't seem to believe in an eye for an eye. They go for the whole body. Their reactions are 10 fold. You kill one of theirs, they kill 100 of yours. W/ that kind of reaction, I think they would be just as likely to use a nuke as any other religious fanatic.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: Lest we also forget. Many nations are refusing to deal w/ Palestines duly elected government! ELECTED.. They all dealt w/ that German Chancellor they suspected of being an ex-Nazi though.
Israel is blocking Palestinian funds. The arab states had to get together to help Pay for salaries of the govt workers..
Israel in retaliation actually arrested many members of the Palestinian parliament.
Extremely Heavy handed.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: Priceless -- cute 1984 work in:)
MoKelly -- as for serious articles. To be honest, I stumbled on you by accident - a good accident. I like many of the editorials on Eurweb.
Before then I mostly viewed this as where I get my black entertainment news. I get my other stuff from google news, ny times online, and nydailynews online.
The prominent stories are all fluff on Eurweb. I suspect this is where your problem lies.
I read yesterday about a former president of an HBCU being indicted for embezzling money. I don't remember seeing it here. It should be of interest to us, but I dont' remember it being on Eurweb.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Are you referring to Dr. Slade, formerly of Texas Southern? If so, it is of interest...not quite sure how I'd like to approach it since I've had dealings with her on a small level.
Also, it's a story in progress and hasn't quite resolved itself to a point in which I can step out on it. If it goes beyond indictment...then that changes things.
Like Barry Bonds, indictment doesn't mean much...unless it goes further.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: As for EUR not covering it, that's a Lee Bailey (publisher) question. i can't speculate one way or the other.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: I wasn't commenting on why/why not you don't cover the issues. You said earlier in one of your posts that serious subjects don't do well here.
I'm just saying the reason is that the website doesn't focus so much on serious subjects.
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Name:
PliggaNeese
Comment: A friend of mine once said that "fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity." I thought it was funny and apt.
America needs to stay out of Middle Eastern affairs (and everyone else's for that matter). They've been fighting on and off since the inception of tribes in that area and there are too many problems "at home" that we should be concerned about.
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