Sun, Nov 22, 2009
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Name:
Skeptical
Comment: It seemed to me that the people on Oprah were more interested in pointing fingers and be victims than they were in finding solutions. As a black man, I personally hate those videos, but I hate the hypocrisy of my sisters more. I live in Atlanta, and when I see a video casting call, I see black women in booty shorts lined up around the corner, and alot of those girls go to Spelman. I think it's great to take the rappers to task, but at the same time, TALK TO YOUR FELLOW BLACK WOMEN! Tell them to stop auditioning for that garbage! Respect yourselves before you demand respect from others.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: after all was said on the town hall discussions, I did not get a sense that folk were leaving the room with a specific actions in mind for sustaining the momentum on censoring [yes, we are talking censorship for the betterment of our communities] the rap/hip-hop pornography . . . when there are far fewer of the nasty videos being made, fewer of us will see the long lines of mis-guided women hoping to be selected and paid for participating . . . I couldn't figure out if Ben Chavis was poverty/victim pimping or just pimping
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Name:
PlanetRock
Comment: I recorded yesterday's show and noticed how the panel (Simmons and Lyles) seemed to point the finger but not acknowledge that they made millions off exploiting the problem. I also noticed no white people stood up, when it is their kids who buy the majority of the music. In addition, where were the white execs, BET and black radio - the true culprits? Respect to the sistas who tried to give their opinions before being cut off for station breaks.
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Name:
Lemonhead2
Comment: "People who are angry, uneducated and come from tremendous struggle, they have poetic license and they say things that offend you," Simmons told ABC News. "You have to talk about the conditions that create those kinds of lyrics. When you are talking about a privileged man who has a mainstream vehicle and mainstream support and is on a radio station like that you have to deal with them differently."
Wow, if I’m not mistaken the industry looks for talent. So this being said, where is the diversity in the poets. If I’m not mistaken 98% of the artist sound the same. The same play list, the same images. Russell, and others may have a passion for the word hip-hop, but I bet you he doesn’t allow his daughters to be called ho’s and I’m sure he doesn’t use the language.
Poets do speak, but come on, poets are suppose to raise conscientious also. Seems to me that if you continually recruit from the same pool, the message sounds the same. Hell the beats are the same. Where is the diversity? Who are the ghost writers?
I’m not looking to only blame hip-hop, my generation help start rap. The media outlets are equally responsible for the decline of TV, Radio, Magazines and others…it’s all about the Benjamin’s.
I’m no ho\bytch, I know this, but I do get upset when I hear this foul mouthed language all the time. I get upset when I hear you know what I mean being used in a sentence all the time. I will not allow a man, coworker or anyone to address me this way.
Russell is a clever businessman. His passion is about money because that’s how he built his empire.
Tupac, wasn’t perfect but his poetry pushed the envelope. Tupac, was never one dimensional, you wanted to dissect his poetry. Most of todays music…..hum if they got rid of certain artist , I wouldn’t miss them at all.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: At the very end they all acknowledged that there needed to be a face to face with them and the women of spelman. I didn't get the sense that it would do much good because the panel was continually making excuses to continue referring to women that way by saying they weren't talking about spelman type women. The fact is because there is no way on God's green earth any rapper is articulate enough to be able to make the distinction between 'us' and 'them' it's still degrading and an insult across the board. It was even more disheartening to find out that all 4 of those men had fathered daughters.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: . . . seems to me that a daughter raised by one of them can only grow in the image of lil kim.lmao
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: EXTREMELY disappointed in how Oprah covered the show. EXTREMELY!
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Name:
Sigmatherunner
Comment: I guess their daughters and nieces must be special compared to everyone else. Yesterday panel was a joke.
Stanely Crouch was on point calling them about a clowns.
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Name:
regina
Comment: Simmons and Lyles should be ashamed of themselves. Yes, women shouldn't line up for the videos but if the videos weren't being made, there would be nothing to line up for.
I am sooo tired of the uneducated & empoverished poet excuse as Russell continuously spewed from his ignorant mouth! What do songs about Rims, bling, sneakers, and bikini clad women in hot tubs and sliding down polls have to do with speaking on poverty?
They have been lying to themselves for so long that they actually can say this crap with a straight face!
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Name:
cdub
Comment: The panel yesterday could not hold water. They were using the blame game trying to divert the problem from their huge money making machine. The only one who bought it all to perspective was that lawyer in the audience.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Great comments thus far on this subject! About the O show, most of the guests behaved as I expected, including and I hate to say it, Common...who in my estimation TOTALLY dropped the ball. He had a rare opportunity to show people that positive rap CAN be done in a way that appeals to the mass, ie with tight lyrics and beats. Instead, he rode the wave with the IDIOTS sitting on stage with him. What a shame...
And I stand by my opinion that this b.s. "secret" meeting with industry heads is just that--b.s. But I think it became obvious yesterday that we shouldn't put too much faith in Simmons/Chavis/Liles types, i.e. the apologists. Same goes for the hypocrite radio execs like the Cathy Hughes (who had the nerve to say Obama wasn't "black" enough while her azz provides the forum for these rappers to showcase their buffoonery and cast Blacks in that light for the rest of the world to see). Nope, true reform will come from the CONSUMERS. We have to form an all-out %*$ault against the enemies WITHIN first. Hit them in their pockets (cuz money seems to be their god at this point) and their azzes will have no choice but to get the hell out of the way for REAL "artists" and musicians to steer this rich Black culture back home.
P.S. I think TVOne is a great example of how REAL Black Entertaiment should be showcased. I digress...
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Name:
cdub
Comment: You had to cringe when O showed that video clip: those poor angry uneducated young men sure had a good time pouring champagne over the strippers.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: cultural capitalists pimp their cukture...they sell themselves for money and profit...they could care less about anything other than exploitation for the sake of financial profit and even these kinds of discussion are seen by them as nothing more than publicity...publicity to increase their sales
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Name:
regina
Comment: I had to say AMEN to that!
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: i read and i truly agree with all your comments. i too watched the Oprah show yesterday and it was a complete farce. i wished she had Queen Latifah and Salt N Peppa and little kim on there so i can hear their views on this. and yeah, where was Reginald Hudlin and Debra Lee of BET? they should have been on that panel too, because they are the ones that show these stupid videos on TV. i saw Snoop dawg on 106 N Park yesterday and Rossi asked him what did he think about the contriversay reguarding this and he said the same ole thing, "if you don't like my music, or what i say in my music, then don't listen to it" and then he said, "people don't try to get to know him and that he's done a lot for young people. he says that russell and all those brothas are too old that they are from the old generation and that their time has passed (how old is snoop??)and that he was a real playa. i think it's a bunch of crap. never did like Snoopdawg.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: and let's not forget that YT is till another issue......their usage f defaming language is separtae from the issue of Hip Hop's Self-Degrading lyrics and images
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Name:
Angel
Comment: So the Ying Yang Twins are poets?! Uh, ok Russell....
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Name:
FiveMore
Comment: Chassie>Snoop Dogg is too dam# old...He is 35 years old(5 years away from 40)!Homeboy is old enough to know better.He is delusional, at best!Russell,How was your meeting with Lyor?How are you suppose to have a meeting, with your enemy sitting at the table?Whatever man!smh...sigh!
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Agreed Bigchassie - Snoop was on the tail end of the rappers that I listened to, you know, Kool Mo Dee an'nem. I never understood the attraction and the bigger he blew up the more I had to realize that we've got a whole world full of idiots who didn't know what good rap was. Well he made it to mainstream and so did his misogynistic lyrics and copied and canned beats and still I wonder why. Now after all these years in the limelight and after hundreds of interviews - we don't know him - I'm just glad he wasn't on the panel cause Oprah would have been forced to show how black she really is!
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Name:
ricki
Comment: Bigchassie, Snoop Oldy Old is in his dayum 30s, but he's been in the game for 15 years. The shyt he rapped about in 1992 is the same shyt he's rapping about now. That's pathetic! No maturity whatsoever. You mean to tell me that 15 years, muliple platinum CDs, and millions of dollars later, he's still a kid that impoverished and doesn't know any better?? That's the stupid rhetoric that was coming out of that panel's mouths yesterday. I was soooo pizzed with Russell and Kevin Lyles for the WEAK excuses they gave those artists. Poetic license? Give me a break! Every single has had a time when there was music that pushed the envelope. This shyt today is beyond that. As someone said earlier, it's one dimensional. At least even groups like NWA, who probably was the group who had the most disgusting lyrics in the late 80s, early 90s, talked about police brutality with F$%K the Police, and had other songs that were socially conscious. I think 2Live Crew started the trend of disgusting music and videos we see today. But you didn't hear them on the radio.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Poets around the globe should descend on russell and common to share their thoughts and to help both men appreciate what real poetry. It's a shame that russell himself doesn't know - did he not creat def poetry slam?!
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Name:
ricki
Comment: Every single GENERATION...
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Name:
sigmascribe
Comment: I don't think trying to dictate what rappers say is the answer. What radio stations play is a better route. That's the free industry. You are supposed to purchase a cd...and if you don't want to hear about b*tches and ho*s, then you shouldn't purchase that cd..but the radio stations should be checked. Especially when they are playing the same 'songs' over and over.
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Name:
Pammy
Comment: That show was the saddest display of denial I've ever seen. The young lady from Spellman said it best..."when I go to the club, men don't ask to see my school ID before they call me a 'ho". I'll bet that the BET executives and others were asked to be on the show but declined because they know they cannot defend the impact of what they put out on the airwaves.
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Name:
Bertie
Comment: I'm not buying Simmons/Liles "dire societal ills makes rappers call women hoes" logic. When hasn't black folk's (in general) social/economic situation not been dire in amerikkka. Our situation was dire in the 60's and 70's yet you had Marvin Gaye/Curtis Mayfield singing about love, struggles and our eventual upliftment. I believe we are doing better now than say in the 70's and 80's when we were in an economic recession and the middle of the crack epidemic--yet the music was not nearly as negative then. At that time Public Enemy was one of the biggest music acts, rap or otherwise. I think the blame society argument is a cop out.
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: RICKI/MCNASTY>i know that's right! Poetic license that they are getting rich off of. it's sad when you make money off of words that are ignorant. i feel, you can rap about being in the ghetto all the time, but CHANGE THE RAP FOR THE POSITIVE! rap about getting out of the ghetto, being positive, now one thing i did agree with snoop when he said that there are raps where the lyrics talk about being positive but they don't get played and that is a sad thing.
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Name:
mayday
Comment: musbd...I must agree with you. I love and I do mean love me some Oprah. She is a great mentor and role model and humanitarian. However, she was completely hands off with the show, she took the stance of mediator and really had no opinion on the topic. I understand that it is her show and she pretty much used the show as a vehicle for others to speak but Oprah wields more power then any person that was on her show, the audience or via satellite to include Al Sharpton.
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: SIGMA>thats right soror. for real.
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Name:
sigmascribe
Comment: chassie}I hear you, there is positive rap but the radio stations don't make a point of playing it, nor does BET.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Bertie, you took the words out of my mouth (keyboard, lol). Very well said!
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: DO YALL THINK:there may be a protest at BET about them putting these videos on TV?
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Name:
sigmascribe
Comment: Did they have Cathy Hughes on there? Isn't she the RadioOne woman?
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Name:
clotel
Comment: Skeptical, I heartily agree with your comments because it also begins with the women who go out for the role of a video vixen. I am not here to question why a woman would subject herself to this type of 'auction block' audition but surely there are better jobs to be had.
Of course not all women in that profession are gold diggers but it appears to be the stereotype. The emphasis should be placed on education and or some type of job skill that promotes healthy esteem.
Everyone is not meant to be a baller, rapper or American Idol contestant. Life is all about choices and I agree with much of what the panel stated but as Russell said, we need to deal with the poverty and illiteracy in our communities too. It is a horrendous problem being passed from one dysfunctional generation to the next....the struggle continues........
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: SIGMA>and that is a sad thing too soror.
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Name:
sigmascribe
Comment: I think BET believes they met their quota by pulling "Uncut". They will say that the videos on '106 & Park' run because the 'people' vote for them and want to see them.
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Name:
Renetta
Comment: What killed me was the guy who got HIGHLY OFFENDED when Stanley referred to rappers – not him, as clowns. It amazed me that he got his panties all up in a bunch over the word ‘clown’ but can’t see how 10-15 years of us being referred to as bytches and hos doesn’t hurt. If you’re going to argue the lyrics are a result of their poverty then how about this – how about poor black women forming groups and every other lyric of their song says ‘all black men are broke, don’t do child support, are on drugs, in jail or gay’ How about we have songs playing on the radio 24/7 with those lyrics – how would brothers feel? I’m sick of the excuses. And I’m sick of all these clowns – rappers, music execs et all getting rich off of our backs. IT NEEDS TO STOP.
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: SIGMA>no, they didn't have Cathy Hughes on there. and they didn't have Reginald Hudlin or Debra Lee of BET. and i find that very interesting.
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Name:
regina
Comment: In Oprah's defense, she did tell Russell and Kevin that they weren't admitting there was a problem in rap. Cause they weren't!
Also, after several excuses about poverty and societal ills, Oprah said to Dr. Chavis "do we have to cure poverty before rappers stop calling us b**tches and Hs". I thought that was great and letting them know that their arguments were stupid.
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Name:
clotel
Comment: Both panels were very intelligent and offered great insight but Stanley Crouch is hilariously funny and has always been a straight, no chaser journalist. He compares rappers to minstrels and sadly, to some extent I must agree.
When he compared rap videos to 'A Birth of a Nation' it sent chills down my spine. Those videos are nothing more than soft porn gone terribly wrong. I wonder if MTV would tolerate a bunch of white women shaking their flat bottoms all over the place.
Enuf said.........
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: RENETTA>yeah, he went off, didn't he? and Mr Crouch was trying his best to remain calm. but he played it cool.
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Name:
Bertie
Comment: Thanks TGen--I was literally screaming at the TV from all the BS spewed by the panel. I found it comical how offended Kevin Liles got at being called a "clown" and how he wanted an apology--yet he wouldn't give (and could not see that he owed) the Spelman women the same for his role in the current state of rap. He came off very defensive and to be honest, like a ho/b@tch. And I agree 100% on your point about Common--he failed to represent in the least and was pretty irrelevant.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Regina, I agree with you. I applaud Oprah for her part. Someone said they were disapointed with the way she hosted the show. From my viewpoint, this series actually made me more an Oprah supporter than before and I've had issues with some of her "stances" (or lack thereof ie the whole explanation she gave on not opening a school in the US) before...but in this case, she is to be commended.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: So sad! This wasn't a day of dialogue and discussion. It was more a "day of reckoning." An "attack and defend" hour. Almost like people were saying "finally I get to ask this question. Finally I get to tear that mfkr a new azzhole." Crouch calling them a clown then when Kevin said I accept ur apology in advance and in turn Crouch saying "u weren't gonna get one" is solving NOTHING. I'm not sure if it were nerves or moreso Oprah but none of them seemed to articulate any point very well. The women at Spellman were a disappointment and more than likely liars. I just seriously doubt if all of those women have been called bytches and ho's at the club. More importantly, considering that most of what's played at clubs is music that they vehemently object to..I can't understand why they would go anyway. Doesn't make sense to me.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: IF she were truly interested in understanding this problem and trying reach a solution then she would've had both women involved in the industry AND those exec's who look like the fathers of those who are the biggest supporters of hip-hop..YT MEN! But no, once again, it's let's attack black men hour.. So sad and I have truly lost a bit of respect for the iconic Oprah.
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Name:
regina
Comment: At least "the attack on black men" only lasted an hour, as a black woman, I feel attacked by the images and lyrics in rap music everyday.
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Name:
cdub
Comment: Bertie: Another thing when KL said he see the browning of hip hop with some crap about his son friend. What was that all about? Again trying to divert from the problem.
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Name:
Southernbelle
Comment: I think Sharpton said it best, to the record industry "You're next." In the beginning I really believe that artists like NWA, Tupac and etc. were rapping about the ills of society and yes it wasn't a pretty picture and their music reflected as such. But, today there are so few conscience rappers you can count them on one hand. This is not artistic expression. Most of it is crap. WTF does "I'm a flirt" have to do about growing up disadvantaged. You can find most similar music in rotation today. Our artists have lost their focus.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: RENETTA & BERTIE> I co-sign with both of you completely and in my opinion that was the point of common ground on Oprah's show yesterday and the point was sorely missed by EVERYONE. When Stanley Crouch referred to those in the rap industry as clowns what he actually did was engage in the very act that he speaks vehemently against; degradation. Truth to the extreme becomes error. When Kevin Liles responded that he personally took offense to that characterization and wanted an apology; the “real issue” had finally become illuminated. In that moment Kevin Liles understood what every Black woman and girl feels when she is referred to in that manner either in the street, in business or via derogatory rap lyrics. His fervor and frustration in explaining why he was offended and his pride for his achievements, accomplishments and experiences is the very response that every Black women has when she is referred to as a Bit#h or a “ho”, because “they too” have achievements, accomplishments and experiences. And I take offense to the person who said Kevin sounded like a bi$ch; being denigrated doesn't FEEL good when it doesn't apply to you and it really doesn't matter whether you are a man or a woman.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Musbdherbs - You missed the point of the show. The theme was what are we, as black folk, gonna do now, so it was not about YT folk. However, I do agree that women in the industry in executive positions should've been present to give their perspective. I think Queen Latifah definitely should've been present since she owns her own label and Cathy Hughes.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: What did yall expect. The Oprah Show isn't where the conversation should be taking place. It seems like everyone wants something to be done, but wants someone else to do it. This conversation should be taking place at the local level between people in the community and the program directors at the local stations and the businesses that advertise on those stations. If you don't like what being played on a local station, organize and target the advertisers. As for BET, simple, call the cable company, let them know that you are cancelling because you are offended by BET, enough blk folk do that, BET would change. But wait, that would mean giving up other shows that we like, nevermind.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Teigh, a very good comment...BUT maybe you don't recall the conversation in whole. If Kevin Liles listened for COMPREHENSION, he would understand that Stanley Crouch was NOT referring to him...he was referring to the PERFORMERS, those who look like "MISTRELS" (his word) in these pathetic videos, songs, etc. The fact that Kevil Liles took Crouch's insult personally speaks volumes..."a hit dog will holler," lol. And I think it speaks volumes that someone who couldn't comprehend the easy parallel Crouch was making is the head of a major record company. If someone lacking in intelligence is at the helm, NO WONDER the artists are so out-to-lunch...domino effect I guess...
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: Many women I'm sure are "outraged" at the lyrics in rap but is it sincere outrage? Yes, I'm sure the older generation finds many things wrong with the lyrics, but the truth of the matter is that in real life I see many women/young ladies/girls call each other "%*$!(, h0, etc". My question is this, "is there really an outrage amongst women? Again, why is it the mans fault? Which came first the chicken or the egg? Or in this case, which came first...H0es or rap music? Women must take a stand. It starts with THEM. C Delores Tucker tried to fight your fight but you called her an old b1tch that just needs to shut up and sit down- talking all that mess about yo baby TUPAC. Now a white man calls you out and your "outraged". You are just as guilty as ANY man releasing these videos and lyrics. Fight your fight.
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Name:
2ndChance
Comment: The hiphop rebuttal was a joke, not because of the "denial" of the panelists but because the ones chosen aren't the ones really under attack. Def Jam artists under Russell's charge are not the ones people are complaining about. Shoot, Def Jam had some of the best acts back in the day. Common according to Oprah is a poet. SMH & LOL @ her for saying that. Yes Common is good but she probably knows as much about hip hop as my great great ancestors. Ben Chavis is an opportunist and Kevin Lyles was promoting his book. I love Oprah but her even speaking on hip hop is a joke to me. What was the point of showing the clip from Tip Drill. That is not representative of the average rap video. That was most certainly the extreme. I watch videos literally everyday and have yet to see that video in it's entirety. I do agree that some of the lyrics in rap are ridiculous but any rapper worth his/her weight in talent can and will adapt or go back to selling cds out of their trunk.
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Name:
2ndChance
Comment: Mus... I thought the same thing when they said they went to clubs. If I'm not mistaken most clubs play the unedited versions of the songs.
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Name:
regina
Comment: I agree, women need to take a stand. However, for Christians, like myself, that Bible says God created man to lead. As I stated earlier, if there was no video shoot calling all big bootay ladies to line up for auditions, then maybe more young ladies would seek aspirations in better ways.
At the end of the day, everything is is rhetoric, about whites, radio, execs, etc. Each individual rapper, rap written chooses to write and go in a studio and record this mess. It's coming from individual mouths. Only individuals can control what comes out of their own mouth male & female. If all these young men would choose not to open their mouths to call people outside of their name, the record execs, radio would, believe me, find another means of making money and consumers would gravitate to the different approach.
All these rappers and young ladies that degrade themselves need to change their hearts on an individual basis. That is what I unfortunately don't think will happen.
Doesn't change the fact that Russell and Kevin presented themselves as idiots.
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Name:
NJBLKGUY
Comment: Musb- exactly what would you want Oprah to as YT men who buy hip hop?? and what would that solve?
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Name:
ricki
Comment: mayday, that was the point of her role. It was a town hall metting, and she was SUPPOSED to mediate. What do you think she should have said?? Everyone KNOWS her opinion of the rap music of today, and it's not that different from the rest of the woman that spoke. This meeting was a vehicle for her to spew her opinion on others; it was for her to give OTHERS a chance to express their views. O is not a Rosie O'Donnell, always trying to push her views on ther people. As a journalist, she knows how to be objective. I don't it would have made much difference who was on the panel. We saw for ourselves that record executives are going to protect their investment. It will primarily be up to the radio stations to refuse to play this music and the comsumers to stop buying it. You know, when the Dixie Chicks spoke out in Texas against Bush and the war during a concert, white people lost their minds. They burned CDs, boycotted their music, even radio stations wouldn't play it. And the sad part of it is that now yt admits that they may have right in their comments. My point is that yt jumped on them and took action because weren't try to hear the Dixie Chicks. And I happen the to like the Dixie Chicks and was glad to see their comeuppance at the Grammys this year. But why can't WE do that with rappers. Why can't WE have CD burning parties and boycott the music outlets that carry this crap? I don't want to censor music, but come on, people know when something is said in context, (ie Leela James, Jill Scott), and whan it's insulting and negative. Tupac rapped "I Get Around" and "Hit me up", but he also rapped "Brenda's Got a Baby" "Keep ya Head up" , and "Holler if ya hear me". I do agree that if they were more positive rap it probably wouldn't get played, but that's because we consumers have shown radio stations over the years what kind of music we're buying. We're in a deep hole, and it's going to be a long climb up.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: Why is it all about rap? Like I said, I see women call each other %*$!(es ALL the time. On every damn episode of GIRLFRIENDS one of the girls calls someone else the B word. Is there a bad segment of rap. YES. Is there a bad segment of motion pictures- YES. Its not just about Rap.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: TGen> I understood what and who Stanley Crouch was talking about but again truth to the extreme is error. So whether you're a clown, a Bit$ch or a ho depends on whether you comprehended the comment made in whole? Can't co-sign on that one, and I'm not just speaking to what Stanley Crouch said, I'm speaking to how these labels are used in general.
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Name:
ChocolateBrownGal
Comment: I can't actually believe Russell thinks his logic is reasonable. If society gave rappers something positive to rap about it would happen?!? WTF? How dumb! If this jackazz' reasoning actually made sense, then our world would be completely void of gas masks and trafic signals, thank you Garrett Morgan; Positive images of black life and achievement, thank you Gordon Parks; black women millionaires, thank you Madame Walker; authors of the Harlem renaissance...thank you Langston, Zora and Countee; and Black Colleges and universities, thank you Mary Bethune. WTF? All of these individuals didn't grow up knowing/experiencing wealth, priviledge, voting rights and equality but yet they were able to DREAM and rise above their circumstances, making a better life for not only themselves but for the community at large.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: why does society always glorify the past when comparing it to today? Regarding the Harlem renaissance writers and poets- If I recall from what I've read, their work was called garbage, sinful, and all kinds of colorful words back then.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Teigh, maybe YOU comprehended Crouch's parallel, but it's CLEAR that K. Liles DID NOT, just based on his SAD response. And what exactly is "truth to the extreme?" lol I thought truth was truth, period. If Stanley Crouch's comment was harsh and hit these trash defenders to their heart, then GOOD. That's what it was SUPPOSED TO DO. If these people can finally grasp the girth of the damage they're perpetuating onto their OWN community, then maybe we can finally make some headway. Finally, not sure what else you were referring to...I based my response on your COMMENT.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Yunvme, you're right. There's always been a place for healthy rebellion, ie going against the norm and having some resist the change. BUT think of the concept of ebb and flow. Something can flow so long to the point that the tide gets too high, it goes too far, and it has to ebb. The earth has to balance itself again. That's where we are I think...in a place where we've reached the edge...time to go back to solid ground, get our balance back. That's what's going on now--evolution. (At least that's my hope.)
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Angel...then if I missed it I would've rather her had ONLY black folks in the audience. OR do one of her town hall meetings (like she used to) and go to an auditorium and make it a BLACK themed show. So no I didn't miss it. Oprah did. Stanley was talking to HIM (Kevin) he wasn't speaking to the audience..he was talking specifically to KEVIN. Even in his generalization, he was talking to KEVIN so I understand fully why he felt offended. If Russell, in speaking directly to one of the Spellman women had said "those trifling women in the videos" then w/o doubt..sistas would've had his head on the block. A black woman being called a ho in the street is a horrible thing. But If you are gonna be offended EACH TIME someone says something about your gender then you are no different than those who object to people crying "racism" at every turn. If you don't think people should be upset whenever someone utters the word n1gger, then some unimportant rapper generally referring to women as bytches shouldn't bother u either. Sorry Oprah...loss of respect...loss of respect.
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Name:
regina
Comment: How bout everyone stops calling others outside of their name. Whether it's to a beat or not!
All these excuses for wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Musb -You're right. Maybe the audience should've been all black, but I really don't understand your loss of respect comment about Oprah. It was a forum to hear views and trying to take a step in the right direction. Y'all really try to hold her to some higher standard than most people.
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Name:
ricki
Comment: I meant to say "this meeting was NOT a vehicle for her to push her views on other people". And Musb, you have never had much respect for O anyway, so that's nothing new. If she doesn't follow YOUR rules, or have the conversations or the people that YOU think she should have on her show, you have something negative to say. O is NOT God. She CANNOT cater to every single viewer. And why do you find it hard to believe that all those Spelman women have been called hos? Because they're in college? That's where it happens the most! And I don't know if all these women are 21 or over, but if they weren't in a club, they were at a party on campus. I was called a ho when I walked past some bad-breathed drunk who grabbed my hand and called me baby. Because I didn't show any interest, I was a ho. And that was 20 years ago! ALL of my girlfriends have been called a ho by a male. I haven't been called a bytch but a couple of times, and that was by an angry black man. Don't act as though y'all don't call us that on a regular basis because it happens. And the young men of today use it even more, but now they're not afraid to use it in public, in front of women my age and older. It's just disrespectful. And we're talking about college women on a prodominantly black campus who want to go out and party and have fun. Why SHOULD they have to stay out of the club? Why SHOULD they be objected to such offensive music? I myself am guilty of dancing to NWA and the like because I love to dance. But when 2Live Crew came on, I walked off the floor. And I NEVER purchased ANY music that was offensive to women, not even The Chronic, (even though I thought the beats were slamming). And 2ndChance, I hardly EVER watch music videos and I saw the Tip Drill video TWICE. THAT'S when I stopped listening to Nelly. And the videos that I see on the screen when I go to the center where my husband works aren't really that much better, to be honest. Most of the rappers today are talking about dances that have women shaking their azzes, or they're saying shyt that i don't even understand. You're talking about someone who knew every Kool Moe Dee, Heavy D, Salt n Papa, and Latifah song. We need to stop with the excuses!
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Name:
SilentJay
Comment: From Apr 13
Yes Snoop & Bob trying to justify the use of derogatory language towards
Black women is ludicrous. I think the larger issue here is that we we’ve wanted so
desperately Be excepted by the majority culture we’ve become too willing to sell anything including Our own self hatred. I think it’s time we say to the rap the community what we’ve All been afraid to say. Sorry Snoop the old “We’re only talking about certain women” Argument doesn’t fly anymore. There are two big problems with that argument. 1, the shallow materialistic women that you speak of are not deterred by rappers slamming them in their music. They have existed through out time in all shapes, sizes And MOST IMPORTANTLY ALL COLORS. What Snoop & company have managed to Do is create the misconception that only in the black community will you find women who are only interested in men for their money. Money hungry Garden Tools come from all corners of the globe. 2, You can’t rail against YT for using the same language because you don’t have the high ground to rail against it. It’s more like standing in quick sand trying to rail against it.
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Name:
SilentJay
Comment: Today
I watched Russell Simons yesterday fervently defended all things hip-hop. It was awkward to watch Russell and Kevin semi-acknowledge the problem of rap music but
Russell is still on the same track he has been since the death of Tupac Shakur when he referred to Tavis Smiley as house n!@@er for trying to have discussion about violence associated with rap music. He has never in my recollection really stood up and said something like “Some of you guys are really f!*@# it up for the rest of us” or something more eloquent to that effect. As for Mr. Crouch and his over application of slave adjectives to describe his take on rap music well…TGen is right he wasn’t directly calling Kevin those names but I do agree with Teigh that maybe he got an ounce of what black women have been feeling for a long time. I don’t think name calling from any side of the isle is productive because some people shutdown their minds afterwards and effective communication becomes harder to accomplish. Yes Crouch is entitled to his indignation along the rest of the panel from the day before. Yes Russell and Kevin are entitled to advocate for hip-hop. But I think what Russell has forgotten is defending Rap and defending Hip-Hop are two different things. Hip-Hop culture is the music, the dancing, the rhyming, the graffiti, the DJ-ing, all that stuff King Zarcon wanted to destroy in the Sprite commercial from back in the day. Now Rap in the other hand is an industry like Hollywood and just like Hollywood it is really only interested in making money. That’s why there are so many bad movies latent with sex and violence not intended for children and rap music and videos latent with sex and violence not intended for children. Do children still get access to it, unfortunately yes just like they see they see movies that aren’t for them either. Russell and Kevin and Common have the power to affect change in but like in the previous post from Apr. 13 we in the community have to mirror that change and support Hip-Hop artist and not just every bum that knows how to put more than five words together in a sentence.
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Name:
ChocolateBrownGal
Comment: * heavy sigh* YUNVME...MY POINT is that if we all felt the need to stay in our circumstances solely b/c of what we see around us, we wouldn't have the achievements and successes that are celebrated today. The idea is to be a catalyst for change, uplifting a people. If you want more recent examples of success, how about Earl Graves, Tom Joyner, Tony Dungy, Faye Wattleton, Reginald Lewis, Tavis Smiley.
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Name:
SpecialK
Comment: This debate can go on and on and on but the bottom line is its time to get our house (African Americans) in order. Not Russell, Kevin, Snoop, etc. can ever justify referring to black women as b's and ho's. What have black women done to deserve such disrespect?
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: DOne, you laid a plan for action: This conversation should be taking place at the local level between people in the community and the program directors at the local stations and the businesses that advertise on those stations. The action plan is extended to "encouraging" black media executives and national leaders (not only Jesse and Al) to bring pressure for change. The Simmons statement "People who are angry, uneducated and come from tremendous struggle, they have poetic license and they say things that offend you" is pure smoke screen for how he will continue to make money by pimping the negative black image.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: TGen, I refer you to Silent Jay's comment "I don’t think name calling from any side of the isle is productive because some people shutdown their minds afterwards and effective communication becomes harder to accomplish" -- and that is what I mean when i say truth to the extreme becomes error. Stanley Crouch became the very thing he speaks out against when he used the term clown -- and that's why the turth that Stanley Crouch does speak to never gets its due, he constantly offends in the same manner that he attacks rap culture.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: As individuals, we are not excused from acting at the home and immediate community level: it's an object lesson in social change to involve the schools by teaching students why this matters and having them write protest letters to their local television and radio stations to protest the portrayal of people who look like them. Beware, though . . . there are more than a few people who have no problem with the overall message of rap/hip-hop or of the negative media images.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: The day something is really done about rap music is the same day that the YT establishment/govt. makes alcohol illegal again. They make TOO MUCH MONEY TO CHANGE ANYTHING. Instead we will see a revised rating system and more songs on the radio where half of it is bleeped out.
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Name:
regina
Comment: Yunvme,
that's the first thang you've said that I agree with.
There will be no change cause of money & too much reward for ignorance.
There are actually some intelligent, positive,& productive musicians, poets, and everyday blacks in existence but if you go by TV and radio, U will never know it.
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Name:
willetta1
Comment: SEPARATED AT BIRTH: RUSSELL SIMONS & ELMER FUDD!
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Name:
MER82
Comment: Like I said the other day, it seems some brothas do not want to take responsibility. Personal accountability, integrity and respect are values that are sorely lacking in society today, but among black men and women, these values are lacking in droves. Black MEN need to STOP THE MADNESS. Take back your manhood, STOP pointing the fingers everywhere else and look at SELF in the mirror. Stop whining and bitching and start acting in a more positive direction. Sistas got ours, we don't need help there. Stop using excuses TODAY. It simply CANNOT BE TOLERATED ANYMORE.
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Name:
Bad_Kitty
Comment: Great posts everyone. I too was VERY disappointed in the panel yesterday but, I unfortunately expected those responses from the panel (of course they had to defend the selling of their black people to the highest bidders didn’t they?). Some black men in general have to STOP blaming "the man." Stop blaming their environment and take a long hard look in the mirror which is what this panel did not seem to want to do.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: Is there anything to be said about female MC's?....You want men to take back there "manhood"...Ok...As soon as we knock you up and keep you barefoot in the kitchen. Be a g0d dammed WOMAN. BE OUR SERVANTS like the good bible says.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: Act just like Whitey, can't stand to not be able to say the N word. Brothas act like it will kill them to stop degrading their SISTERS. I don't give a got damn what some woman is doing, you don't have to speak on it in every rap. You don't have to celebrate what some chick is doing to you in the back of the club on every song. You don't have to have naked women surround you in a video. Take back the ownership. Address self first and the rest will follow. However, if these brothas don't want to support change for the better, its time for the consumers to let the radio stations know we aren't listening anymore. We all have our part, but I am sick and tired of Black men making every excuse in the book about why they call a woman out of her name. WTF are you? DO YOU.
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Name:
Bad_Kitty
Comment: MER82: Great minds think alike sis!
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Angel..what exactly was accomplished? Those in opposition to hip-hop are still in opposition. Those who are anti-Oprah and 'nem are still anti-Oprah and 'nem. This was not a dialogue..it was an attack. I loss some respect for her because instead of really having a much needed discussion on hip-hop it was an attack on black men. Much like what is going on here. She could've had Latifah, Mary, or some of the female exec's from the hip-hop industry but she didn't. She could've had the Jimmy Irvine and 'nems to show another "face" of the industry and ask them "why do u allow this music" but she didn't. She could've had someone like Melyssa Ford (former video-ho) to talk about the industry. But she didn't. She had Superhead..so why not? Hell give me KRS-1! To add insult 2 injury after Chavis suggested they go down to Spellman and start a dialogue w/them, the first thing out of Oprah's mouth is "can I have a camera in there?" So Angel..that's part of the reason why. Ricki...Are you attempting to start a dialogue or simply comment on your obviously distorted views on who/what I like? You don't like my answer so now u've azzumed something that's not true based on zero evidence. I find it difficult to believe that all of those women have been called ho's "at the club" as they suggested on Oprah. Are you in college by the way? Have you any indirect evidence which suggests that black women are called ho's more on college campus' than newhere else? That's another gross azzumption. I just told one my close female friends this weekend "now see why u gotta be a bytch"--she wasn't offended by it. That's my experience. Again where is the dialogue here? You only seem interested in spreading misinformation, attacking hip-hop and making gross generalizations. This is the Oprah Show Unloaded..that's all. I can only imagine the dialogue if the panelists included some of you nubian sistahs. Yep that's moving forward for ya.
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Name:
Timolyn
Comment: Well....I have not read all of the comments, but I had to stop and ask a question after reading one comment. I have heard this several times before and I do not understanding what the meaning of "not black enough". I know Cathy Hughes is not feeling Obama because he is "not black enough". Because you dress well, very articulate, "light skin" and can not run to "blacks" rescue.....is this the meaning of "not black enough". What the &%$k. I've never felt Cathy for some reason and that is from my "gut". I know I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but he??. I did not watch Oprah yesterday and was not aware of the guests. Does Russell Simmons have something coming out soon. From y'all post and reading some of his statements RS is not trying to take anything away from his pockets especially now since he got to pay Kimmora....u know the spelling.....lol. AND, from what I've seen of Russell he seems like behind close doors he is byotch and ho this. He comes across to me as evil and two brothers are minsters. Hmmmmmm interesting.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: Yunvme, everything you have written is a weak copout- you are no different than Imus saying he only said what he said because of what he heard in rap music. Again, blaming the victims in a sense- internal oppression and self hate are the harbingers of all the negative things you wrote about. Its high time to stop fault finding and change the music, the movies, the tv ads, society PERIOD. But instead of waiting, WE can start with US TODAY.
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: The first segment was stronger compared to the second one. Russell and the other hip hop representatives did not articulate the reasoning of calling women B*tches and Ho's. They knew they could not justify it.
Becoming bored with my the show I listened to the spinners on my ipod; a song came on by the spinners I think it was called "Let's change the ghetto or this is what goes on in the ghetto". And in no way, shape or form did they call or elude in his lyrics that this B*tch did this and this Ho did that... But they still convey the conditions with out be disparaging to the audience.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: All I keep reading is how men do this and men do that and how there is no need for men to call women out there name. Meanwhile- it seems like all women do ALL DAY LONG is call men out they name, call them fagg0ts, call them, weak, call them stupid. Aint that the pot calling the kettle black?
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: black women are NOT the victims. The victim in all this is the black MALE.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: And yunvme-if that is your definition of manhood-that speaks volumes to why brothas and label heads are continually making and promoting the degrading music that they are.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: timolyn> Russell among other things...is currently promoting a book, and from what I think I heard Oprah say -- she will feature him on the show to talk about the book next week.
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Name:
2ndChance
Comment: Ricki when did you see Tip drill and did you think it is represtative of hip hop videos? As far as I know they only showed it on that show on BET that came on 2 or 3am. Has Nelly made a Tip drill video since then? Has Luda made another Pussy Poppin?
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: The fact that most of the rappers who spew the derogatory language no longer live under the same circumstances or they can afford to insulate themselves from the ills they grew up with in and of itself dictates some change in the lyrics.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: Musb>> We are way past pointing fingers in a circle . . . Spellman does not need Chavis or Oprah because they are already actively dealing with the negative images portrayed through rap/hip-hop. What Chavis and Ophrah need to do is show us their direct action (are cameras necessary so that we will know?). I don't know why the women rappers and women video participants were left out of the "attack" on the town hall shows, but the "attack" is not aimed solely at black men. The first comment on this board is a shout out to women for being complicit in the negative imagery.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: MER82 can you explain to me why virtually all female MC's talk about svcking d1ck? Can you explain to me why some of our females go out dressed like hookas? Can you explain to me why females have unprotected sex with people they hardly know, can you explain to me why females prostitute themselves, can you explain to me why females do they things they do in vidoes? You want to focus so much attention to the men in this equation. What about the so called women?
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Name:
regina
Comment: I am glad yunvme is in discussion even though he is making me cringe. He is echoing the denial that Russell and Kevin demonstrated. He has yet to admit, like those "Execs" that black men should make a change.
The females in this discussion have said that females need to check themselves but he has gone so far as calling these rappers victims.
Sad statement of the realities that exist. I hope he is young and can be enlightened one day. If he is as old as Kevin & especially Russell, then that proves that there is very little hope.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: Ok. Black men need to check themselves. Now whats up with you chicas? We both have now "checked" ourselves...what now?
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Name:
regina
Comment: Females rappers that use explicit lyrics, WRONG! O.K.!!!!!!!!!!! GEEZ. THESE EXCUSES ARE SAD!!!!!!!!!
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: How can Russell Simmons tell us anything when he is nothing more than a sucka for luv azz trick who got played like a flute by marrying that dyke, Kimora. Makes me wonder just how smart he really is! Oprah could care less about the black people and the rap plight because it doesn't make her billions and most importantly, it really doesn't appeal to her audience, middle/upper class stay at home white women. The Imus story is good for ratings right now. Next week the family of the deranged guy that killed the students of VA Tech will be on her show and this issue will an afterthought. Rap music went to garbage when gangsta rap came about. None of the rappers from back in the day have won much deserved Grammy's. Heavy D was my all time favorite and he never got the props he should have...however, sex, drugs, and violence amongst ourselves are the biggest money makers and therefore, who cares about black people when we don't care about ourselves. We've got crooks like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson leading us through the underground railroad where there hasn't been any light at the end of that tunnel in a long time. Farrakhan for President!!!!
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: McNasty>> In this note, I credit people with wanting and/or needing a comfortable lifestyle. Many of the people on this board came from modest beginnings and are not into mass negativity. I grew up poor and did not know it until a white seventh grade English teacher told my classmates and me that we were poor. We were clean, well-cared for, and able to enjoy what we had without having a sense of lack. In that English class, we looked at each other in disbelief because we had everything we needed in our lives except a common-sense, decent English teacher. In today's America, media tells everybody what they need to be complete with those needs pegged to a middle-to-upper-middle class standard. Being poor in America today is not the same as being poor in America about 40 years ago. Formerly poor rappers and hip-hop artists don't have to express themselves in the manner that they do except by their choice of how they chase the American dream for fulfillment.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: these excuses are only sad to you cause the table is turned and you have no viable explanation. Its ok cause I understand that women are not as bright as men.
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Name:
regina
Comment: Thanks yunvme!!! Geez. Now what, like I have been saying, we got to make changes on an individual basis. I do believe the men & WOMEN out there degrading our image as a people are for the most part a lost cause. We got to start with the babies/young kid. Like the mother from NY said. Nip it in the bud when you hear it from kids who if they are not getting it from those around them, they are definitely getting it from rappers or both. Stop buying it. It will be a slow change but it can affect change. There are no boy white boy bands b/c people stopped buying it. Stop supporting non sense.
If you look hard enuff we can find fun and entertaining media that doesn't rip our spirits apart. I do. It's not all that's out there for us.
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Name:
Mishe
Comment: I was very disappointed in both shows. How is it the rappers fault when these women line up half naked to appear in these videos? Where is the personal responsibility and self-respect? These same women will go to the club half naked to shake their tale to these same lyrics. When are parents going to be responsible for teaching morals? One lady stood up and made this comment but since Oprah didn't agree she quickly cut her off. Londell was critical of the music made by some of his clients, but yet he doesn't have a problem being paid with the money from this music that he's criticizing. He is free to choose who he represents but yet Lil Kim is a client, get real! It's all money for him too. I wonder if the women from Spellman are working on campus with the ladies there who are appearing in these videos to pay for school. I don't worship the ground Oprah walks on or take her word as law. She is a woman just like I am, who is human with flaws and all. Just because Oprah gets behind a cause doesn't mean that we should not throughly do our homework in order to form our own opinions.
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: It's not all about the black male. It's also about what we as black women have allowed to proliferate. We are not victims, but willing participants as long as we are standing in line to be in the videos, part of the entourage, buying the music, bootlegging the music, dancing to the music in the clubs, addressing each other as b*tch and ho "playfully".....
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: I can't see the future but a year from now BET, MTV, and Radio will check themselves, so glad Imus was called out and a change is gonna come. T.I. is probably doing a little editing for his upcoming CD and he will be a better Man for it.
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Name:
regina
Comment: Ok, hope for Yunvme gone again. He wins, these rappers are just victims that have no control of what comes out of their mouths and it's not there fault, it's black women's fault and the whiteys.
My brothers and sisters with some common sense, keep your head up.
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Name:
Timolyn
Comment: Steph>>>>>funny for you to say Kimmora is a dyke......well actually I heard from a pretty good a couple of years ago that Russell and Kimmora were swingers. Thanks Teigh>>>> I figured he had to be doing something. Seems like his name popping up tooooooo much.
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Name:
ricki
Comment: Musb, having a dialogue with you on O OR hip hop will obviously not happen because of the distorted CONCLUSIONS you draw. I assumed that you have no respect for O based on what YOU said and have said in the past, so what are talking about zero evidence? And if you read my post CLEARLY, you would've seen where I said my husband works on a college campus in the cultural center. I graduated with a BS in '91, and I now I am back in college pursuing a masters. So YES, I am in college. I have my college experience 20 years ago to compare with what I see today. You obviously don't read all of my posts. As I told you the other day, I'm not attacking HIP-HOP, I'm attacking the RAP music that is degrading today. YOU, being a hip-hop fan, should know that hip-hop is a culture, not just a form of music. And I have not made any gross generalizations. Not once did I insult you and your opinions, but that's how YOU seem to dialogue. I base my statement on name calling happening on campus moreso than anywhere else because of the close proximity in which college students live and interact with other. I may be wrong about it, but that's my OPINION, and if someone can prove me wrong, I welcome it! I am around and talk to black college students almost everyday of the week, and have been for the last nine or so years since I've been with my husband. I've been a chaperone on Spring Break Tours and been on many HBCU campuses. My stepson is 21, and I hear him and his conversations with friends. He DOESN'T listen to that kind of music; he plays in church and wants to be a minister. But he knows the hip-hop culture, and he knows what's being played on the radio. I see good men everyday, but even the good men call women hoes. This is not about male bashing. WE didn't start calling OURSELVES bytches and hoes. And, let's be clear. I'm not at ALL a hoe, but I wouldn't be offended if someone called me a bytch if I was ACTING like one. So, like your female friend, I wouldn't be offended. What does that have to do with the music of today?? That's not the context in which we are being called these names, so let's stop comparing oranges and apples. To them, women are bytches and hoes IN GENERAL. I used to LOVE rap, and I STILL love Hip-hop. We're talking SPECIFICALLY about the kind of music that is degrading to women, both rap ad r&b, and you know that's the bulk of the music on the radio today. I'm done with this; you not getting MY pressure up!
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: I'm just tring to get across that this is fake outrage and women are not the victims that most are trying to portay them as.
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: *sarcasticly speaking* men are the victims...i see. they are victims as they are in the video riding around on cars with serious rims. big bold cadilacs (RICHBOY GOT A CADILIC, THROW SOME D'S ON IT) wearing chains wit serious bling (thank you Jake the Jewler) and sportin grills (which is the stupidest thing i have ever seen since those loud-colored polyester pimp suits of back in the day) and carry big rolls of money. the black man is the victim....okay. SMH
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Name:
ladybyrd
Comment: People OPRAH's FORUM is merely a "START" in the right direction. It's more than what we are currently doing. Now WE need to pick up the ball in our communities and start running with it! We had to have the dialect first, they did the samething in the days of Civil Rights. You've seen "Eye On The Prize" or "Make It Plain, biopic on Malcom". There was a lot of blame to go around then and there's still blame to go around with the current status of AMERICA. This is just a start, so that everyone can get on the same page. Rap as always blamed their circumstances and that's bull. When Grand Master Flash & The Furious Five can out there was poverty, drugs, homeless, pimps, ho's but you couldn't tell because they chose the HIGH ROAD!! It's time Hip Hop makes a change. As one whom is apart of the Hip Hop generation, I say a change need to come. Hip Hop has been an embarrassment for the last 10 years. Don't bytch and moan about IMUS, bytch and moan about yourself and those around you.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: Speak on it Ricki. Yunvme I am going to just chalk up your ignorant rants as someone who is weakly attempting to play devil's advocate for the sake of playing it. Because the things you point out STILL DO NOT ADDRESS THE ROOT OF THE CONDITION. I cannot educate those who do not want to be educated. Go read some books, understand why Blacks in general have the self hate issues we have in part from the white supremacist society we were enslaved in, learn about the patriarchal culture of our society and how it heavily contributes to women hating themselves. Go to the history, psychology and sociology sections, of your local library and enlighten yourself because I cannot do it for you. I will not keep wasting my time responding to your excuse giving, finger-pointing foolishness. I only deal with those who are intelligent, enlightened, self-respecting and honorable. Come at me with that, and then we can dialogue..."brother."
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Name:
Mishe
Comment: YLawdY, I AGREE totally!!!
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: white men have switched the game up. They have traded in shackels for BLING to enslave us. Some black men dont realize what is going on. They are still slaves. A steel chain for a platinum gold one- aint no difference. Its mostly men who parade around on TV looking and sounding IGNORANT. So yes, I say the men come out badly on this one. Yes to a certain degree they are victims.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: MER82 please spare me. You aint that smart. Are you male or female?
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Name:
Bertie
Comment: I agree with Mus or Yunvme that there was an element of male bashing. I think it is interesting that neither Debra Lee (BET Prez) Cynthia Norman (MTV Prez) nor Cathy Hughes (Radio-One owner) were on the panel. They benefit from the negative potrayal of women as much as Russ or Kevin Liles, and way more than Common--and these women can have as much power to stop it as the men on the panel. The panel choice definitely played into and explioted the black men v. black women dynamic, when in reality there are women promoting and profiting from the denigration as well.
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Name:
bigchassie
Comment: but on the other side of that coin, the sistas got to come up too. they got to realize that you don't have to flap the bootay just to get into the biz. MTV did a special on this. now i'm not saying all women stoop that low to degrade themselves to get in a rap video. in the documentary there was this one sista who refused to go down on a rapper so she could be in a video. they kicked her out because she would not stoop low. but she kept her dignity. and there were problems that the women did not get paid for being in the videos. and also if the women refused to dance and be half neccked in these videos, they get strippers to be in them instead, but i think these rappers were underground rappers. did anybody see this documentary? they showed it sometime last year.
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Name:
deedeeVon
Comment: MER82 - I concur 100% with your comments. Black men are the ones that should wear the lable of bit*ches. I watched the show as well and was amazed at how much they winned and made excuses. Step the fu@k up black men. Take take the fu@king lead and fix the situation. Damn!
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Name:
Pammy
Comment: Men are the victims? Wait a minute...Isn't the record industry a MALE DOMINATED industry? Aren't they the ones who can green light what gets pressed and distributed? Sylvia Rhone is one female in the lot of the MANY males who are the ones who decide what they are going to shop to the radio stations. Before gangsta rap became mainstream it was sold out of the trunks of cars because no record company or radio station would touch it. That all changed when "The Chronic" hit the scene. Exec's could smell the money and before you know it, they slapped a Explict lyric sticker on it and distributed "clean" versions to radio stations. The sleazy videos soon followed. I know because I worked in radio for over 20 years and watched the change happen. Women coming out of college who studied dance or acting or even mass communications could not even be CONSIDERED for jobs unless they were willing to show a little sumptin or give a little sumptin...to whom you ask? The MALES who control who gets hired for these jobs. Victims? More like perpetrators....
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: you are foolish for real. You keep saying I'm offering excuses for male behavior. YET you still have not explained anything about a WOMANS role in her own DESTINY. Why she does the things SHE does. Why she raps about the things she does. NO instead all (and frankly I'm getting tired of it) I hear is its the men, its the men, its the men.
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Name:
ricki
Comment: Mishe, how do you know O didn't agree with what the woman said about parents being responsible? Did you hear hear SAY she didn't agree? Who WOULDN'T agree with common sense? And I don't think anyone on here "worships" O, any more than any other black celebrity making great contributions, so I'm not sure why that comment was made. Stephanie, O doesn't care about Black people? OK! I won't even address that because the things she's done speaks for themselves. Taking on rap lyrics is not O's cause; she merely had a show about it. She has other causes, as do you and I. And she already HAS billions, so I doubt if making money is a huge motivator for her these days. The only reason she's still doing her show is because she, as well as others, feel there's still topics that need to be addressed. If she's still making money...well hell, isn't that what business is all about?
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Name:
Renetta
Comment: If Kevin Lyles demands an apology for indirectly being called a clown HE owes every black woman an apology as well. The nerve of him to get indignant – “I’m insulted” Try being insulted for 15 years of lyrics. That point just sailed over his empty head. Common was a HUGE disappointment. I expected more of him. And Russell and that bafoon Chavis – all they did was talk around it and claim poverty has to be cured first and we must understand. Give me a break – these rappers live in million dollar homes – then get in front of the camera and pretend to be hardcore.
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Name:
Mishe
Comment: Ricki, like I said she quickly cut her off and Oprah is known to interrupt and talk over people that she doesn't agree with. Watch the show and you will see this. There are Oprah "worshipers" and if aren't one then don't get offended.
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Name:
deedeeVon
Comment: Yunvme is a perfect example of what I described in my last comment. Winney ignorant bit*ches.
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Name:
2ndChance
Comment: mishe, i felt that she talked over that teacher, too. ok ok you made your point. lol the teacher articulated what i feel about this attack on hip hop. the issues are so much bigger than snoop dogg. if russell wasn't so overprotective of the genre he helped market perhaps he could've articulated it a little better.
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: I thought we were talking about not calling people by derogatory terms??????
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: deedeeVon is the perfect example of what I described as a B1TCH. Just so the rules are clear, men can call you a b1tch if thats how you act right?
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: see thats the problem- over bearing mannish/damn near lesbionic women who dont know their place.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: Sometimes I think yall just like to debate for the sake of it. It could be argued that both the men and women are taken advantage of. the record executive throws money at the rapper if he makes a video with women shaking their azzes and then the rapper turns around and throws money at the woman to shake her azz in his video. Its sort of like someone who is sexually abused as a child who turns right around and abuses another child. It creates a cycle and that what we have among blk folk, a cycle of self hate. As with abuse the cycle can be broken but its requires the abused to stop viewing themselves as a victim, to gain some self respect and empower themselves. The question becomes how do we break the cycle and do we really want to break the cycle or just debate it?
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Name:
deedeeVon
Comment: Yunvme you make an interesting point. If men knew their place and stepped up to the plate, maybe women could go back to being the delicate flowers that they are instead of having to take over the male role out of necessity.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: everything is the mans fault according to you.
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Name:
yelleyw
Comment: Why is it that when a white person born and raised in poverty is racist or sexist there’s no excuse but once a black person born and raised in poverty uses “nigga, bytch, ho” the excuses are slavery and poverty?
Why should I care who Puffy and Snoop are “inside” if they don’t show any sign to aspire for EVOLUTION and more MATURITY and don’t care to sell out their own community for money? They poison the community so I don’t care to know who they are. People like Russell Simmons get on my nerves, those rappers come from the hood? They were poor? Puffy and Snoop been out the hood for YEARS, eating caviar and drinking Moet, traveling THE WORLD, owning their own labels, so spare me the excuses. They don’t change cause they don’t wanna change.
Oprah was a child born and raised in poverty and did more change than those CLOWNS ever did.. DO YOU REALIZE THAT OUR PAST LEADERS AND ARTISTS LIVED IN WORST CONDITIONS AND HAD LESS OPTIONS THAN THOSE RAPPERS??? DID THEY USE POVERTY AS AN EXCUSE TO CALL WOMEN BYTCHES AND HOS IN THEIR SONGS??
As long as people won’t TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DAMAGE THEY ARE DOING instead of mastering in finding excuses, nothing is gonna change. The radio is responsible, the consumers are responsible, the magazines are responsible, the rappers are responsible, the labels forcing artists to fit certain standards are responsible, MUSIC channels like MTV and BET are responsible, the parents who allow this music in their homes are responsible, the excuse-makers ARE responsible.
Haven’t we seen the low self-esteem our kids have with the Kiri Davis video YEARS AFTER the first doll test? Do you want things to get worse? How long are we gonna HELP perpetrate the pimp and ho stereotypes?? Don’t those people realize that the worst damage it is doing to our community is that we end up stereotyping each other, degrading each other, despising each other?? Black men and black women don’t even trust each other anymore. Isn’t that a good enough reason for starting to MAKE A CHANGE??? BLACK PEOPLE STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES!! WE ARE DIGGING OUR OWN GRAVE!!!!!!!!!
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Name:
deedeeVon
Comment: I believe that men are the leaders. The black man is winney and weak, therefore the black community is weak. Women will be ok, we are resiliant and smart, but without the male leadership, the whole community suffers. We need stong men who offer solutions instead of pointing the finger at their women.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: again...what is the WOMANS responsibility?
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Name:
FiveMore
Comment: And, The debate continues!Sorry, I did not see the show(I don not watch Oh!)An elderly white man's racist rants have caused a raging firestorm in the community. But, wait!What will happen next week,when something else pops off(another psychotic student on a rampage,trial or whatever)will this furor fizzle quietly out into space or will the debate go on?If the founder(s) of Def Jam does not see anything wrong with the state of this music,I do not see the average die hard rap artist/person tossing x-rated music out or cleaning up lyrics(Snoop is still promoting a album filled with Bs and Hos+Suck this or that).What will the closed door meeting solve(not one thing)?They are not trying to mess up a winning formula.Russell's brother Run is a pastor,does he approve of this music?You will reap what you sow!Most of these men have children,(daughters!) they'll soon find out!
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Name:
mayday
Comment: Ricki...I know what a town hall meeting is and I know what Oprah's role was and I thought that it was a little disappointing that she took only the "mediation" role. She does have strong views about rap music and she could have taken that time to express them again on her show while the world was watching. If she is really down for change then she can use her unlimited power to get the ball rolling. Again, I love Oprah but that is my opinion.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Yelleyw, your comment should be the POSTER CHILD for this movement! So comprehensive, so right on!
DeeDeeVon, you are SOOO right about the men/women dynamic. For the most part, Black women have taken the reign as far as they can. Black MEN will HAVE to step it up and take the lead. Period. Disclaimer: This does NOT absolve women of personal responsibility...just acknowledging that until men assume their rightful place (at the head), this community will continue to be lop-sided and out-of-whack...
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: for all the women that want us men to "step up" are you willing to shut up, step back and be subservient? Thats all I wanna know.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Musb - I hear what you're saying and I definitely thought the show could've been better, but my respect for Oprah has not changed because I feel she's trying to get the dialogue started. I'm sure that for every show she has, there is someone out there saying "Why didn't she show x perspective or have y guest?" As far as the panelists go, how do you know that Oprah didn't tell Russell to bring his "team" of folks that he thought accurately reflects the hiphop view? Did Oprah even know who Kevin Lyles was before he sat on that stage? Why didn't Russell bring some of his female executives? If she really was trying to bash, the Ying Yang twins would've been sitting next to Russell. LOL As for her asking to have a camera in the room for the dialogue at Spelman...maybe you haven't noticed but...Oprah is a TALK SHOW HOST. Not a religious leader, not a politician, etc. That's what I mean when I say that you want her to have higher standards than anyone else in her same position. Do you think Montell Williams, Ellen Degeneres, Barbara Walters, Katie Couric, Anderson Cooper and any other talk show host or journalist would not have asked the same question?!? To me, the dialogue started off all wrong due to Russell trying to pizz on folks leg and call it rain. The whole "they are ALL poets" BS just doesn't work. Yes, many of them are poets, but let's get real. There are some in the game strictly to make money and will say whatever makes the most money...not what their struggle reflects. I was truly frustrated with that. I was also frustrated with the Spelman girls saying they don't listen to rap and get called hos on the regular, but I don't think Oprah specially selected those women to speak based on those facts because both Gayle and Oprah seemed surprised. And if I recall correctly, at that point, Oprah did say that we need to get some women that do listen to rap, so to me she recognized that that viewpoint was missing, except for Gayle. Gayle has said that she needed to check herself because she does listen to rap, but claims she's not listening to the lyrics. She just likes the beats. I think that is a better reflection of most young women today, educated or otherwise. I'm not saying that they buy rap CDs, but a lot damn sure get their head bobbin on a lot of the songs that are in heavy rotation on the radio. Eventhough they bleep out the offensive words, we all know what words rhyme with h* and b*tch, so most folks that haven't heard the regular version know exactly what fits in the bleep.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: how many women are going to stay home tend to the house and just raise the kids, living off of what we men want to break off to them in an allowance? NONE OF YOU. Dont be fake. You are not willing to do YOUR PART.
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Name:
detroitgee
Comment: Its funny to me when folks say the rappers - rap about their condition.
I was on a committee dealing with a talent competition in Detroit. A few rappers auditioned - rapping about rocking their 'gators and all the bling bling - I had to laugh in homeboys face. He had on run-over gym shoes and a nasty t-shirt - didn't see no bling. didn't see no talent some rappers aren't poets - just a person with a mic
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: I enjoyed the dialogue that Oprah presented but let's be real. 2 hour's devoted to this issue is not enough, this could have gone on for at least 1 week. With once a month progress report's. And next time invite Lyor Cohen, Trina, Queen Latifah, Da' Brat, Luda, Jay-Z and 36Mafia.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: DOne and yelleyw-your comments above-speak directly to what I am saying-thank you.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: And I don't see anything wrong with men and women leading together-but men have got to step up period. We can't keep doing it by ourselves.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: so if the men haven't "stepped up" and the woman have been leading, is it safe to say that the sorry state we are in is the womans fault? What are you saying now?
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: DOne>> co-sign your points on the debating/knee jerking . . . please remember that this is primarily an entertainment site and if you touch one person and spur that someone into action, then you have not written in vain
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Name:
AWM050501
Comment: Poverty, economic struggle, and lack of education do NOT excuse a basic moral compass towards anyone or anything.
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Name:
Shortey71
Comment: Very interesting posts today. I want to shed some light on the only freshman from Spellman on the panel. Her name is Deven and she is 19 years old and graduated from El Cerrito High in CA with honors. She worked two jobs until she got a scholarship and headed to Atlanta. Once she got to the Oprah show where she met Tyler Perry who introduced himself and gave her tips on how to deal with the media. Accordingly to her Aunt who is a very personal friend of mine, Deven debated against the Producer from College Hill and some kind of way Oprah heard about it and asked them to join her panel. Now my question about the rappers is how many of them have EVER graced Oprah's set before all of this happened? From what I remembered she didn't even like rappers so how did this come about? Just curious.....
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Name:
nycGYRL888
Comment: Russell claims they conduct mentoring workshops for the artists. If this is true, the teachings/trainings must be focused on how best to disrespect ourselves and our sistahs at the same time. As we all know, misery truly does love company! <<yunveme>> All those lude acts & behaviors you mentioned women commit, are no excuse for the degrading and disrespect these artist spew on a regular basis. Lets not forget, men are guilty of committed the same acts including dyck sucking and prostituting. Many of whom has resorted to prostituting themselves for the industry!!
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Name:
khufu
Comment: Black folks are lost
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Angel..I gave "my" reasoning why i've lost a lil respect for Oprah. I know you are a fan so dat's kewl and I can understand you coming to her defense cuz that's what fans do. If ANYBODY knows that I do..lol. Losing a lil respect doesn't mean that u dislike or "no longer" respect someone. I've lost some respect for Cosby but I don't dislike him. IF and that's certainly a big IF Oprah extended the offer for more people (women/execs) to be on her show and they declined, I give the panelists even MORE props for stepping up as they did...that deserves at least a smidgen of respect but they got very little. They could've easily declined..but they didn't even KNOWING the boiling pot they were stepping in. Oprah's is not the "average" talk show host. She is THE Oprah Winfrey. She is on a different plateau than any of those u mentioned. I don't hold her to any higher standard than I do any other uber-powerful black person. I wished that at some point the conversation turned to the "complicity" of us all instead of LOOK AT WHAT "YOU" horrible, money-grumbing, clowning, pimps have done to US. Gale acknowledging she listens to it was a great intro but it didn't happen. Hell I remember Oprah telling Ed Lova that "she" listens to "In Da Club" by 50c when she's working out. Again, "our role in this" as opposed to "your role." Russell was defending himself throughout the entire show. He was like a weak dog backed into a corner. Unfortunately, that was the environment he was in. I didn't like his answers to a lot of things just as I didn't some things O did. BUT, I don't write him off as a fool just because of it.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: but as long as one is gettin' paid, being seen, drivin' a nice vehicle and gettin some azz being lost is okay.......
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Name:
Bertie
Comment: Funny how the debate somehow went to same ol tired black men versus black women arguments(men stepping up and women knowing their place rants). Both are part of the problem and the solution. If Russ, Kevin Liles, and Common are part of the problem then so is Debra Lee, Cynthia Norman, and Lil' Kim. I think its a shame Oprah didn't represent this instead of pitting the Spelman women against an all male hip-hop panel.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: fook it..im mexican from now on
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Name:
MER82
Comment: YUNVME-if you are not going to have an intelligent discussion with me please refrain from posting your comments towards me. You make yourself look ridiculous to say the least.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: I'm stupid yet you still havent been able to answer my questions without name calling. You look ridiculous. Now which is it, you want the men to lead, you want men and women to co-lead, women have been leading but are not responsible for anything...you just go on and on spewing nonsense and when you get called on it you have nothing to say.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: wetback
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Name:
MER82
Comment: LOL-I am with you Khufu!
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: your just another man hating woman.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: Wow-what a pathetic excuse for a human you are, don't get mad because you put your azz on display to be kicked-fukking loser. ANYWAY-Khufu-Como estas?
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: so easy....so so easy.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: ....by the way, I'm still waiting to hear your suggestions about how women should/could raise themselves up, accept responsibility for their OWN actions and uplift their men?
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: MER82 you HAVE got to be kidding. You think you have been sounding intelligent?
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Musb - The next time there is an article on Beyonce is on!! LOL Anyway, Oprah is not your average talk show host, but at the end of the day, her roots are in the talk show/journalism field, so it's in her blood to want to get the story. And again, I think Russell ended up defending himself throughout the entire show due to his first comment and not because folks started an %*$ault first...but I know we will never agree on certain topics and I respect that. I was looking forward to hearing him speak, but after the whole "they are all poets" BS, I was pizzed, so if I were there, I would've gone after him at that point, too.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Correction - "it's on!"
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Name:
ChocolateBrownGal
Comment: YELLEYW..you and i are on the same page...scroll up^
-->>YUNVME...Well here's my answer to your questions since you want to reference scripture:
Ephesian 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the cchurch: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
So...YUNVME....if men are honoring us...well, you get the point
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: lol..Well U knowz that i'ma a FAN..FAN..FAN!!! *Beyonce Plug* She had two really nice ballads on her re-release. Ok..but anyway..As Tavis once told me...The test of a true journalist should not be based on who finds the story first but what you do w/it when u get it. I think most "already pizzed" people were even "more" pizzed after he said that. The door of understanding was closed. Most people had picked their corners b4 they stepped onstage. IMO..that's why the show was a failure. A dog backed into a corner will bite. In this case, Russ' gums were doing the chopping. *doing my mom's mabley impression*
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Name:
ricki
Comment: Yunvme, I'm hoping that your comments are just you trying to play "bad cop" in this discussion, because you making yo brothers look bad! The black community has broken down because the men stopped stepping up to the plate and being the head of the household, forcing women to step up in a role that they had to learn as the went along, but I digress... I think as a whole women HAVE taken responsibility for the role we've played in this situation. In the end, it's up to us to be mentors to the women coming up behind us. And it isn't just the ones that come out of the hood; it's the middle-upper class also. My husband's boss has a daughter who practically grew up on a college campus. She's a senior in high school, bright student, articulate and HOT! She's been talking about having sex since she was 14, and last summer, she did it with a guy in a dorm during a six-week college bound program. She had the nerve to tell me about it, (which I'm glad she did because I want young girls to feel as though they can talk to me). Of course I had to tell my husband since it was his program, and before he could talk to her father about it, the boy told and it got back to her dad. But i had to break it down to her and told her to get off the "ho" path! We as parents and mentors need to instill in these young women that they don't have to be sex objects to attract men. Stop giving your child money to buy their own clothes and they won't come home with all that provocative shyt! Stop giving them 20 and thirty dollar allowances, and they won't have the funds to buy CDs. Yes, we are living in the age of music downloading and CD burning, but don't make it easy for them. Lastly, trust me when I say that not ALL young women and men listen to this music on a regular basis. I didn't; I bcame a lover of jazz music in college because a male friend of mine listened it while studying. We need to start putting some FAITH in our young people and not always believing the worst. I'm not afraid to tell a young person to pull their pants up, or put on a long shirt so your thong won't show, or don't use that language in my presence. But I also talk to them and laugh with them and listen to their conversations, and I get respect from them.
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Name:
FiveMore
Comment: *raising my hand*@Yunveme>I am a full time stay at home mom!
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: I dont know why I waste my time with you bulldag..um..bullheaded women. I mean if you disobey the almighty GOD (then we men really dont have a chance do we?) Thats all I hear is- honor us, lift us, love us. All this after YOU and YOUR WAYS got us kicked out of the garden of Eden in the first place. You have always been dumb heithans.
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Name:
FiveMore
Comment: Preach,Chocolate BrownG!
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: Ihave no way of knowing but I really think Gayle had a lot to do with Oprah devoting two hours of her show to the Imus aftermath; giving Run-DMC and his family 1/2 hour; and her segment on hip hop dancing. I would also guess she ran it by Maya and Quincy but notice they could have appeared and didn't. Gayle who grew up more priviledged than Oprah, in my opinion is her eyes & ears -- especially in NY. Oprah doesn't know Kevin Liles but Gayle does, Oprah doesn't know Corey Booker but Gayle does. While Oprah admitted that she always stayed away from this topic, I would guess that Gayle brokered the 15 minute segment with the Rutgers basketball team. How would it have looked if Oprah didn't chime in with a perspective? Oprah didn't go to them, she sent a satellite. She also tried to get an exclusive on the whereabouts of the meeting telling Vivian Stringer on-air that she knew they were meeting with Imus that night. Vivian Stringer didn't budge out of "deference to all media". She's a journalist -- let's not forget that. When she said that she never wanted to do those kinds of shows because she felt her "audience" wouldn't get it -- she was speaking as Oprah Winfrey the business woman with a worldwide television show -- not Oprah Winfrey Black woman. I like Oprah, and I watch her show if the topics interest me but the only time I have seen Oprah the Black woman and Oprah the media mogul converge is during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. She did more to put disenfranchised Blacks back into homes in a short period of time than the government, Lousiana, or FEMA ever did would or could. Beyond that, I would have to agree with those who say she is cautious, because she is.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: FiveMore- God bless you. I have mad respect for a woman who steps up to the plate and is a REAL woman.
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Name:
wiccar
Comment: >cosign yelleyw, khufu.
>mer82, yunvme please STFU.
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Name:
sweetpea
Comment: There is no one solution to this debate. Bottom line is, as African-Americans we are responsible for what we allow & go on in our communities. We all have freedom of speach. I don't want my freedom of speech taken away. The record companies have warning labels to let you know if material may be offensive. We have choices. African-Americans are the largest consumers period. We don't realize the power we have to make significant change.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: HarrisThonas I too came from very humble beginnings and like you it wasn't until someone pointed it out that I really even knew. Of course it mattered not as I was taught it's not what you want that makes you fat it's what you need. I understand growing up in lesser circumstances and where that material came from, they now live in gated communities so it's time for them to grow the hell up cause for sure they wouldn't refer to the neighbors they have now as bytch or 'ho.
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: I'll shut up when someone can go back through my comments on this thread and tell me where I was "wrong". Tick Tock....
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Name:
FiveMore
Comment: Yunvme>*tearing up* Awww Thanks!
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Name:
khufu
Comment: que nada......
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Name:
Bad_Kitty
Comment: yunvme: Did Eve put a gun to Adam's head in the garden of Eden and FORCE him to partake of the FORBIDDEN fruit? Hell no! He had a CHOICE. Adam CHOSE to DISOBEY God. Don't blame that on the woman. Once again, look in the mirror and ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY! Gee Whiz!
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Musb - There definitely were corners, but wouldn't that have been the case no matter who was on the show? Folks have their corner on this issue and, by looking at some of these posts, the middle ground won't be found within a 2 hour window. When Oprah did this type of show with all women, one of the guests was a female producer for the "Girls Gone Wild" outfit. The audience ripped her a new one. Supahead quickly denounced video hoism after that (she's no fool) even though we all know her "concern" for young girls was BS . LOL That is why I think it wouldn't have made a difference if women execs were there...ok, it would've made a difference for Russell because he would not have been the primary target, but her audience would have attacked them too and no resolution would've occurred in that short window. I know you don't believe it, but women do actually bash other women on her show. LOL
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Name:
BigBlackRod
Comment: There were NONE of the offensive rappers present. No video models. Only filthy rich Russell, self-satisfied Kevin Lyles, snake-oil salesman Ben Chavis, professional curmudgeon (and hideous human being) Stanley Crouch, along with a bunch of stuck-up, snooty representatives of several diferent types of intelligentsia. And Oprah called this DIALOGUE? PEACE.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: russell simmons sold drugs now ge sells and pimps culture...a hoodlum is a hoodlum is a hoodlum...all the money in the world caint change that
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Name:
yunvme
Comment: Bad_Kitty - no Eve didnt put a gun up to Adams head, but she DID tell him that if he didnt eat the apple- he wouldnt get to eat the uh....He wasnt gettin none. LoL> I mean afterall isn't that what you ladies say- Pvzzy rules the universe?
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Name:
khufu
Comment: bottom line...america is fallen culturally, economically, spiritually, morally, artistically, ethically...I am a Mexican about to learn Chinese and when I do I will be Mexchi or ChiMex...
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Name:
nycGYRL888
Comment: sweetpea>> Although AA's are the largest consumers on a whole...when it comes to the purchasing of rap/hip hop music the mass consumers are white males. 70-75% of this music is purchased by YT, all the more reason for the nonsense being spewed to cease. No one wants their freedom of speech to be taken away, but, accountability needs to take place when its at the expense of your women and your people. This is a new form of prostitution and rappers have been bending over for the industry for way too long!
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Name:
MER82
Comment: Seriously Khufu, that may be the way to go--knowing both languages will definitely take you further these days. I hate to give up on the black race, but pathetic lost souls like some of the ones who posted above make me think on it time to time.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: ok big poppa is here....call me Jose...let me clarify shome things.......yes we have free will given to us by our Creator to decide for ourselves whether we will choose life or death; good or bad...His/Her Will or our own will......yet our power to make decisions is influenced by external circumstances and situations......ILLUSIONS play an important part in fooling us into thinking that WRONG decisions we make are right and they actually are not...in the Biblical context, this power of falsehood and illusion are represented by the Serpent..sometimes referred to as The Trickster...so while we d have free choice, we have been made to think that a lot of choices we make are right....some people say the deveil fools us...some say white cultural supremacy...some say Western values.......it's a little of all that...capitalism, racism, consumerism.......miseducation...preachers...LOL
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Name:
Bad_Kitty
Comment: yunvme: Be for real. khufu: America (and this world) has fallen beyond repair I believe. It will only get worse. This is the DEVIL's world, highly influenced by him. God & His son Jesus Christ left us on our own a long time ago because we left Them. They will be back however and Whoa to the devil (and those doing his deeds) when they return.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: MER or the Black "sistah" who just gave me a hard time for parking too close to her car....
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Name:
khufu
Comment: so in looking at the story of Adam and Eve we see free choice being given....Adam sins and blames Eve...Eve sins and Blames the serpent...Cain sins and blames God...HUMAN BEINGS rationalize their sheet and when they do, it's nothing one can do to change that......it seems to be in us AS LONG AS WE FUNCTION ACCORDING TO OUR WILL AND NOT IN ACCORD TO THE CREATOR'S DIVINE AND HOYL WILL FOR OUR INDIVIDUAL LIVES......
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: yunvme...they'll be coming around with the little paper cup in a few. Hold on till then.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: Yes I believe according to the stories that Lucifer was given reign over the planet for a certain period of time....when he was cast down with his LEGION OF BAD ANGELS....how else could he have offered Jesus the kingdoms of the world unless he owned them? But his time is up and the only way the TRULY CHOSEN of the MOST HIGH...not the religious fanatics who many are actually folowing Lucifer (the power of illusion into making one mistake right for wrong and wrong seem right) but those who TRULY have been set free and are folowing the REAL CHRIST FOR REAL.....the only way they will be "saved" from the impending doom as AL RELIGIONS ATTEST TO is through the intervention of The Christ and the GOOD ANGELS at the anointed and appointed time
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Name:
Bad_Kitty
Comment: khufu: Well said (your last post about the blame game that ensued because no one wanted to follow the rules set forth by the Divine Creator in the Garden of Eden & beyond).
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Name:
khufu
Comment: what does all this have to do with the topic od discussion? This: there are many who have chosen DEATH OVER LIFE..There are many who are agents of Lucifer peddling death and destruction...marketing "sin".....there are many who have and do sell their souls for money, power, fame and fortune......they are lawyers, record producers, politicians, educators, preachers, etc.......with this truth in mind, whose side really are people like Russell Simmons and those guys on?
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Name:
khufu
Comment: Jose is finished for the day......
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Name:
khufu
Comment: remember The Devil's Advocate--the movie? SHow business----the business of power, fame, sex, illusion, fortune, arrogance, selfishness and vanity! Hmmmmmmmmm....and the industry is centered in the city of ANGELS.....ever think about that? maybe when Lucifer and his buddies arrived they set up shop in L A?
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Name:
Bad_Kitty
Comment: khufu: I believe the same thing about the angels (bad ones) being cast from heavan with the devil to rule over the earth for a short period of time as well. You are correct about the devil offering Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth... because he owned them, when he tried to tempt Jesus three times. Russell Simmons is on the side of the dollar bill. "The LOVE of money is the root to all evil" as the scripture goes. Not, "money is the root to all evil" as most people believe the scripture to be.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: thesec ats peddling death, violence, etc etc are not agents of the Most High God.....Mafia 6 saying thank you Jesus.........man, please........they have sold their souls for a piece of a temporary world
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Name:
Bad_Kitty
Comment: khufu: My husband comments every time we watch it how the devil revealed himself BIG TIME in the Devil's Advocate. Al Pacino was awesome in that movie! One of my favorites.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: a yt deveilis born that way....a Black one sells his/her soul
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Name:
khufu
Comment: a yt devil is born that way
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Name:
Bad_Kitty
Comment: khufu: I am on the fence about your last post (about certain people being born a certain way). The christian follower in me says you are wrong but the commen sense person who has lived in black skin all her life thinks otherwise. Anyone and everyone however has the power to change.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: so dont expect most of these guys to change..they peddle death becuse they have chosen too be emissaries of death...yes, they should be chllenged but dont bring a pencil to a sword fight...bring truth...most of them KNOW what thery are ding and TRUTH is the only way to combat them....raising the political, historical or cultural issue with them in order to get them to see "the light" is a waste......oh, they see/saw "the light" cause Lucifer is the angel of Light (lucifer means fire light) and is a beautiful angel whose beauty appeals to the senses..THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING....beat they azzes with some spiritual truth........
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Name:
ChocolateBrownGal
Comment: Khufu, my friend, You are on the money today! (No pun intended)
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Name:
MER82
Comment: Real talk.
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Name:
khufu
Comment: BAD KITTY....i am not trying to impose my beliefs..I often am on fence but when you judge YT by their actions, their histories---their fruit---what do you come up with? "there are some good ones"...yeah, but get those good ones around some other yt's and they change......
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Name:
Angel
Comment: And now we will hear a moving selection from our choir headed by Bad Kitty and then Pastor Khufu will come with the benediction. LOL
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Name:
Bad_Kitty
Comment: khufu: I know you are not trying to impose your beliefs on me. We all are giving our opinions on this board. I was just giving feedback. I agree on one hand with what you said, then on the other, I am torn. But, if you look at the history of the world...
It was nice chatting with you today on something real. Have a beautiful, Blessed evening everyone. And let us try to uplift ourselves beginning in our own homes first and foremost. Let's try to keep it peaceful there, one day/night at a time, starting tonight. Don't yell at the husband or wife tonight. Keep it calm with the kids tonight. If we do that, hopefully, it will spread outward in everything we do (like fresh smelling wildflowers in a field on a beautiful summer day).
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Name:
Bad_Kitty
Comment: LOL @ Angel. I just like to stay as positive as possible. Life is TOO SHORT for negativity, depression (I've been there) and sorrow.
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Name:
lawdhepmypeoples
Comment: Some say the world will only get worse and not better. But, I say prayer changes things and while the world continues to spiral out of control, the God of mercy will hear our cry if we pray earnestly that this hip hop culture cancer stop killing us. It was certainly hatched out of hell! With the Imus incident, I believe the healing is beginning. But really folks, what in the fire did you all expect Russell Simmons to say? This is how he's made his fortune. How utterly foolish of him is to state that the condition of the Black community and slavery and oppression is a sufficient reason for rappers to call our women b's and ho's. Even if they choose a career of dancing in videos, it's not a reason to disrespect them. Hugh Heffner has published naked women for decades and respects them all to the highest. He's never refered to his pinups as b's and ho's. Why should we? Instead, we should encourage them to better themselves that they may be able to make more suitable career choices.
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Name:
thegamehunter
Comment: one thing we fail to realize is that black folk as a whole around the country will not embrance any kind of change unless it comes with a financial reward...its hard to say that, but its true.................think back last year when all the illegials in this country had mass demonstrations from city to city to protest the immigration talk. We still havent seen anything on curbing illegials in the USA. Do you really think two, three or four hundred thousand black folks in Houston, Dallas, Denver, Los Angeles, Oakland, Seattle, Minneapolis, New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, St Louis Kansas City, Baltimore, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Memphis, Charlotte, Omaha, Oklahoma City, New Orleans, Birmingham, Tampa, Jacksonville or anywhere else will have mass demonstrations against the artists, radio stations, record companies, and advertisers who make tons of money on this filth? I didnt think so..................but, lets be real for a minute...if the white folks who are the decision makers in corporate america wanted to shut the rap industry down, it could be done tommorow. The record companies could void every contract they have with every rap artist out there. They could cut distribution contracts with labels like rap a lot, def jam, bad boy and swisher house.....the advertisers could back out like they did with Imus...then the brothers, Im sorry, the hoe azz rappers, will be back to selling cd's out of the back of their cadillacs and in front of the club..
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Name:
BigBlackRod
Comment: If this thread was on something positive, would there be 211 responses? This is what drives gangsta rap; nobody pays for uplifting stuff anymore...PEACE.
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Name:
sweetpea
Comment: Yes, I agree with you nycgyrl88. I did't mean to say that African-Americans are the largest consumer of rap music but the majority of rap music is put out by African-Americans and some of them continue to put out this garbage that degrade our women and some of our African-American women also, contribute to the images that are rap about and portrayed in videos daily and are heard and seen around the world. When is our community going to take responsibility?
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