Mon, Nov 23, 2009
EURweb |
|
Back to the Article »
Click Here
|
|---|
| Click here to post your comments. |
|
Name:
xavixavi
Comment: that's right mo... rip that bandage off w/ one swift pull and show that nasty sore.... Other than stupidity, I still don't get why he did it. But that's just me.
Don't watch football, except the superbowl, so don't care about Vick really.
Sad, that someone could put that much money in jeopardy. Well at least he is saving on lawyers fees so that he could spend them on trying to keep that signing bonus....
|
|
Name:
whynotme
Comment: vick was stupid and all but i still don't think that he should go to jail over this or lose his contract.
|
|
Name:
ffcab
Comment: whynotme ... the man financed an intra-state criminal operation and because of that he will be joining a host of other brothers who endeavor in the lifestyle of 'keeping it real'
|
|
Name:
DOne
Comment: I have a question. I saw a blurb on news this weekend about a bust of a dog fighting ring in New Jersey. I see those from time to time about the busts, but since celebrities are not involved you never hear about the end result. Exactly how much time do someone normally gets for running a dog fighting ring?
|
|
Name:
whynotme
Comment: --->ffcab i know what he is charged with and probation...yes....community service....yes....but i don't think he deserves to go to jail.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: What people seem to miss in the Vick case is that this is a federal charge for transporting dogs across federal lines. So in this case the charges are more severe.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: It doesn't matte if someone "thinks" he should or should not go to jail...it's a felony. All felonies involve jail time.
The sentencing guidelines are clear.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And Vick MUST lose is job because the NFL is clear in its gambling laws which indicate that illegal gambling of any type results in suspension
|
|
Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: Best line: "To those of you out there who can’t understand all the fuss over “dogs”…you’re still missing the point. Laws and their supposed merit aren’t subject to debate after you break them. You either observe them or break them and deal with the consequences. Dogfighting, racketeering et al. are illegal…period." Anybody who knows me knows that I am Michael Vick's biggest fan. I used to wait outside McDonalds after football games in high school just to try to flirt with him. I didn't care that he had herpes, or that he showed up at the airport with weed, or that he flipped the fans the bird, or that he couldn't take coaching direction. But I could not bring myself to stand up and defend him in this instance because as black people we need to save our defenses for people who look like they may be innocent. People who don't have a voice. If there's anything Vick has it's a voice, and for some reason, he chose not to use it. And all those blacks who stood up to defend him no matter what made it look as though we, as a community, don't respect the law. The law is the law whether you agree with or not. And if you don't agree with it, work to change it, don't break it and say "oh well, it shouldn't be illegal anyway." And finally, I just need to point out that for those who say 'the government' should be focusing on something else, one federal agency's prosecution of Michael Vick does not prohibit other federal agencies from dealing with the crimes to which they are assigned. I wish people better understood how the government works.
|
|
Name:
Stephanie
Comment: This guy made a very stupid choice and as a result it cost him EVERYTHING and to me that is punishment enough. We all make bad choices in life and some of those bad choices can end up costing you dearly but in his case, his punishment of losing EVERYTHING is much more severe than going to jail and paying a fine. He'll be released from jail one day but because of a stupid choice, he pretty has a life sentence. No need to kick him while he's down because one can only imagine how stupid he really feels and looks. Just think when's he's alone and has to play all of this in his head over and over. The sad part is, he's probably convinced himself he'll play again and this too will pass. It will if he moves to Canada. Mo,I agree with you about is this should be awake call for all AA athletes but it won't because we as a people never learn.
|
|
Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: DOne< animal fighting laws vary by state. Federal laws only deal with the interstate purchase or transport of animals for fighting i.e. larger ventures. All in all, state laws are typically more stringent because they have more resources to enforce them and to find the perpetrators. The feds have to rely on roudabout ways to find people. Like, in Vick's case, his cousin was busted for drugs and voila...dog carc%*$es. Otherwise, Vick would probably still be a free man today. THAT'S YOUR FAMILY!! lol Sometimes the Feds find out in other ways, but the State are typically the only ones that can show up somewhere and say "hey, this is a dog fight, alla y'all are going to jail." Feds have to prove you moved those animals.
|
|
Name:
6footah
Comment: I'mJustAsking....you lost me at the fact he has Herpes, and you still wanted to get with him.....ha ha ha...but then somewhere in the remaining body of text, I gave you 1/2 a point....
|
|
Name:
DOne
Comment: Thanks IJA for the info. I guess if I cared at all about what happened to Michael Vick I would do some research on the outcome of other federal cases involving dog fighting and state cases also. The only reason that I ask is that I like apple to apple comparisons so I would need to see info on other federal dog fighting cases before I could determine if Vick was targeted unfairly.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I don't think anyone can make the argument that he was "targeted" unfairly.
He was never "targeted" at all.
They went in looking for drugs in a house that was being lived in by convicted drug dealers...they found all this other ish.
Mike is collateral damage...like being in a brothel when it gets raided. They didn't go in looking for "him" but happened to find him in the midst of a criminal enterprise.
No drug homies, no raid...no conversation about a guilty plea.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I encourage everyone to read the actual indictment...the amount of evidence and degree to which this enterprise operated is staggering.
This wasn't any witchhunt or a few specs of blood in a bronco...this is damning evidence all the way around.
|
|
Name:
sprtslvr
Comment: I don't get athletes who make millions of dollars and then get caught doing the dumbest s***. Tank Johnson, Marcus Vick, Pacman Jones. What the hell is wrong with them. When they say never give black people money and power, they were talking about these fools. Being black, I always thought that was racist and know I agree. He made more from endorsements than he could ever make from dogfighting. I thought he could always say that he owned the property but never knew what was going on, until my dad said they probably had him on videotape. I swear him and his brother are two of alot of dumb black men out there. They have the whole world in front of them and the money to buy it and the still f*** up. Why can't we as a people have money, move up from where grew up at (whether it's the projects to the house in the suburbs) and not be called sell outs for not wanting to go back or bourgeoise (sorry if it's spelled wrong). Why put yourself in the position to go to jail? Why still hang out with people who sell drugs or put down the positive things that you do, because they say you don't keep it real. Keeping it real doesn't involve drugs, killing animals or people, and doing illegal activities. It involves common sense and the knowledge that you don't want to go back where you came from.
|
|
Name:
Renegade
Comment: Like I said on another page. 3000+ American soldiers dead. A war criminal In the whitehouse. Inner City murda a plenty. "Scooter" Libby set free. And we are more concerned about the lives of pit bulls. A dog's life is treated as of more value than a humans. Fucc Dat!
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: We're not "more concerned"...take away all the press...it's still a felony.
|
|
Name:
Renegade
Comment: Hell Dick Cheney was out shooting animals and people and that baztard is stll not in jail. What Vick did was illegal, but not the most earth shattering thing. I've heard news and sports reporters say that Vick did "the most awful thing that one could possibly do" WTF? How about killing a person. How about rapers and child molesters? God does not have a sin scale or sin-o-meter. Throwing rocks is easy when we are not the target.
|
|
Name:
beboyz
Comment: Mike Vicks name is mud with YT folks. They love dogs and animals more than they care about the plight of our Black butts. Real Talk!!!
|
|
Name:
JDinLA
Comment: Wow...am I missing something? ITA with Mo. It is a federal crime and there are federal sentencing guidelines and the court will administer the guidelines accordingly. Vick's a criminal and there are millions out there...yeah, yeah, yeah. BUT, how can anyone have apathy for someone who personally HUNG and DROWNED the dogs?? Get the picture? He didn't just give the dogs away, or simply put the under-performing dogs "down" humanely, he made it a dayum event! Isn't that the same warped mindset of serial killers? How can anyone compare a stupid hunting expedition with a freak who purposely tortured dogs in a most egregious way? This fool and his crew are sick! I don't even like animals at all, but DANG! What don't you get?? Stop the insanity and think for a minute...dang!
|
|
Name:
B00TANEB00TUS
Comment: ...Future PSA: Hi my name is Mike Vick and this is my best friend Spot (A Golden lab)...A few years a ago my pit-bulls would have probably ripped Spot to pieces. (Spot licks Vicks face) but after years of counseling and being locked the he11 up I realize the error of my ways...Dogs are not to be treated inhumanly...They should not be drowned,electrocuted and trained to fight to the death...I fucced up big time...I lost my job with the Falcons, I lost my endorsements and my fuccing so-called friends snitched on me..(Vicks kisses Spot)...I want to apologize to all the fans I let down but most of all I wanna apologize to Spot and others like him...Won't you help me put an end to the brutal sport of dog fighting?...(Spot has a puzzled look on his face and bites the he11 outta Mike Vick...(fade to black...We here Mike Vick say..."You bit my dayum throwing hand ya mangy mutt"....
|
|
Name:
B00TANEB00TUS
Comment: ...We then see Isaiah Washington run in with his gay friend and try to calm spot down....
|
|
Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: ROFLMMAO!!!!!!!!@BOOT! 6footah< thanks for the half point. The herpes thing was hard but when you've had a crush on someone since you were 15...
|
|
Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: I think the biggest problem people have w/Vick and the many others like him (unfortunately) is the squandered opportunities. Think about someone like Tiki Barber - from a single parent home but raised VERY well and he EVOLVED from wherever he came from. He is classy, articulate and well-rounded. Then think about the corn-rowed, blinged out men like Vick and you see how sometimes evolution fails. It makes "regular folk" angry because to have that much opportunity and to give it all up for some really ig'nant stuff is just infuriating. People can call someone like Tiki a sellout if you want to but I'd rather have him represent all of us than a Vick any day of the week and twice on Sunday!
|
|
Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: >IJA - you lost me w/that one. I was gonna marry Magic Johnson, do you hear me? But to again quote the Jerry McGuire movie, "he lost me w/HIV"...ya hear me - lost me!...foreva...I don't care if he does take $20,000 worth of drugs a year and has some magical African remedy, Magic still has HIV and ain't 'nuff money in the world would make me sleep w/him...Go'on get your herpes, girl. You can visit him in jail now. He'll be happy to see you for sure. That's how Mike Tyson met his ex...go for yours (gagging...)
|
|
Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: >Boot - You've got skillz, man! CTFU!!!
|
|
Name:
DOne
Comment: What's interesting is that people are comparing dog fights to hunting, but I think the better comparison are some human shorts like Cage fights, put two men and a cage and let them beat the hell of one another. Some could even say boxing. Some people simply have the desire to see two animals tear each other apart, whether it be human or beast.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I'm sorry, but the comparisons to hunting are laughable.
The law was and is clear PRIOR to Mike Vick's involvement, so to debate the merits of dogfighting in relation to hunting or people's caring about animals moreso than Black folks is silly.
The law is the law...regardless of whether you respect it or like it. You do not have the option to only observe that which you agree with or respect.
There are plenty laws that we all disagree with, in fact every sit-in was illegal...but every sit in was done understanding that they would be put in jail.
The law is the law. Ignorance of the law or lack of respect for it only ensures you will be in jail.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: "Dogfighting is no big deal" is the utmost ignorant response.
Yeah, I think prostitution is "no big deal either." But you know what...if I get caught paying for sex, I'm going to jail, irrespective of my "views."
When Black folks get the picture that the law, be it carrying concealed weapons (which many people have no problem with) or smoking marijuana (which many people have no problem with) must be respected...you won't have this problem.
Alcohol used to be illegal, now it's legal. Change the law then. But until the law is changed, you're wasting your breath.
It's a felony, federal offense in this case. Next...
|
|
Name:
ImJustAsking
Comment: DOne< I still wouldn't compare dog fighting to human fighting although I see where you are going with that. But I boxed for two years and no one starved me for days before a fight to get me ready, nor did they tether me to a pole near my opponent so I could get more agitated. It was of my own free will which is the thing that bothers me about dog fighting. These guys try to say it's the dog's instinct...well if it's the animal's instinct, then why can't you feed it, love it, pet it, and still have it be a killer dog. Unless a dog is abused or terribly inbred they are not walking into a fight ready to get down. I have a german shepherd, when he sees a pitbull he's ready to play, not fight. I do think there is a lot of truth to what Deion Saunders said in that Vick identified with the dogs. Dogfighting is all about ego. And those who can't fight make others do it. If these were real men, they would sacrifice themselves in fights and not the dogs. *hugs dog*
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: The very fact that so many people want to compare this hunting only illustrates the fact that so many of us simply are ignorant of the law.
Hunting is not allowed across the board, regardless of time, animal or season. Dog racing, horse racing etc. are also regulated accordingly.
We can debate what is more or less evil in regards to the treatment of animals, but the laws are clear.
And if you have to paint a house black and hold your dogfighting matches at night and hold clandestine betting...you're not acting in ignorance of the law, you're acting in willful defiance.
|
|
Name:
DOne
Comment: I agree, IJA, I was thinking in terms of what motivates people to want to watch it, not so much from a participation point of view. Cage Matches are illegal in many states; I think the same people who would want to watch two men beat each other to the point of death; some have died, are the some type of people who would enjoy a dog fight, but you are right, at least the people have a choice
|
|
Name:
Renegade
Comment: Oh well, hunting was not the only thing that was mentioned, but it is common for people to pick and choose one aspect of anothers argument when they try to back up their arguments. Clarence Thomas comes to mind. Hmmm???
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Renegade I would just say in closing that because you or I may find a specific law unpalatable has no bearing on the present issues in terms of breaking it.
And this wasn't an accidental event, as this has gone on for almost years, across various states and hundreds of dogs. The scope of the breaking of the law is massive. That can't be disregarded.
It's not an "isolated" incident.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I meant "almost SIX years"
|
|
Name:
PHScott
Comment: Mo made the point, then made it again, and again, and again. There is no excuse to support Michael Vick in his actions, which is exactly what I did when I thought there was NO FRIGGIN' WAY he would be involved in the day-to-day operation of a criminal enterprise. I still had my doubts until all three co-defendants flipped on him. If Vick thought he was innocent of the charges, there is NO WAY he'd take a plea deal. Of course, there is a glimmer of hope that the criminals he's entangled with are lying to save their own a$$es, but that too is doubtful. My answer to all of this is just look at Rae Carruth. Millions of dollars and a career in professional sports does not make you immune to stupidity. The only redeeming factor for Michael Vick is that the NFL has a precedent: Alex Karras and Paul Hornung were suspended for a year for gambling (on NFL games, no less). This gives Vick a glimmer of hope for a return to pro football after he has served his sentence (which, BTW, will NOT be "3-5").
|
|
Name:
Renegade
Comment: Morris the thing is I do not disagree with you that he broke the law. The point that i was making was that this whole magnitde of the crime thing is wayyyy overblown.
|
|
Name:
Renegade
Comment: magnitude
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: For me I can separate the "magnitude" of the media versus the actual magnitude of the case itself.
I don't think Mike is being punished any moreso (in a court sense) because of the media spectacle surrounding it.
Yes, the media impact is felt in his endorsements and public perception, but such is always the case when you are such a lofty figure in entertainment. Celebrity cuts both ways...
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I mean, is Lindsay Lohan's DUI more "newsworthy" than John Jones'?
Probably not, but such is the culture in which we live.
I mean BET's Lil Kim: Countdown to Lockdown was its highest rated show of all time. This is a recurring theme in terms of celebrity implosions.
|
|
Name:
Renegade
Comment: I agree. You are making my point for me.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: No, I agree that the media is warped in its sense of news...but I wasn't sure if you were trying to make the point that the media helped "convict" Vick...
Did I misunderstand you?
|
|
Name:
Renegade
Comment: Yes! Exactly
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I believe with zero media coverage, Michael Vick goes down...too much evidence against him. The media and its scrutiny arguably had nothing to do with people like Purnell Peace, Quanis Phillips making plea bargains...and those plea bargains and evidence overall made Vick cave, not the press.
All roads still lead to his pleading guilty because the Feds are moving forward irrespective of the negative press against Vick. They had him either way.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Lastly I would say...if the man is guilty and by virtue of his plea and the evidence against him that's a fair statement to make...
If the man is guilty, (and he is) all this is moot. He is guilty, and "the press" is not a court of law..."innocence until proven guilty" is a court procedure, not a media guide to reporting.
|
|
Name:
Renegade
Comment: I will not deny any of that. Just was stating that the media will over blow a story and ignore others that are equally or more important. Jena 6, Kid and Pop killed on the 710 freeway, Newark kids etc.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: A better argument you could make is that the media has "tainted" any potential jury pool if it ever went to trial. THAT is a reasonable argument to make.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Agreed. I'm waiting to see how Jena 6 turns out or further evolves and then I'm jumping on that and will tie it back to David Banner/Al Sharpton/Michael Vick in a discussion on real racism and who is bringing us down in the process.
Thank you for your contributions Renegade...enjoyed it.
|
|
Name:
Renegade
Comment: No Problem. Just discussion. From one African American Man to another.
|
|
Name:
iamda1
Comment: MoKelley you are missing the point people are trying to make. Did Vick break the law, YES. Nobody is disputing that. Did he know he was breaking the law, YES. Nobody is disputing that. What people are upset about is that the punishment, coverage and attacks on his career, finances and endorsements are going overboard for killing some damn dogs. Scooter Libby can get a pardon but Mumia can't? Enron CEO steals 20+ years of peoples hard work and savings and gets 18months. IF I rob you at an ATM for 1 weeks pay, I get 3-5. Nobody is disputing that he broke the law OR that the laws are in place. What people are upset about is the disparity at which the punishments for crimes are levied against "us" as opposed to others. It is common fact that more blacks get the death penalty... and that chance only increases if your victim is white. Should I go to jail if I murder someone, YES. Should I get more time just because my victim is white? I'M NOT SAYING VICK IS BEING CHARGED BECAUSE HE'S BLACK!!! I'm saying that his skin color, celebrity status and media attention will have an unfair impact on his sentence and would have had one on his trial. The fact that you and people like you want to pretend that the law is just and fair is mind-boggling. Laws don't change instantly and you know that. With every law that has changed there was a society breaking that law in large groups BEFORE it changed. Some got arrested, some didn't. Some got a lot of time, some didn't. And there were people just like you looking at Dr. King like a fool for willingly going to jail. Willingly being beaten and hosed. I'M NOT COMPARING VICK TO MLK!!!! I'm illustrating how a change to the laws starts with people not understanding the validity or purpose of a law... and breaking it. Rosa Parks "breaking" the law led to a change. Had they kept lobbying, petitioning and voting it would have taken much longer. Some laws need high profile cases to spotlight the logic and sense of them. This is one of those cases. Hopefully the dog-fighting laws will become more lenient... but I doubt it. Those who control the laws, makes the laws and h and down punishments like letting their dogs like them in the mouth and sleep in their bed. so of course vick is a monster for what he could do to Lassie.
|
|
Name:
TheBrownOne
Comment: Well spoken iamda1, and MOKELLY, I too agree that you were right about his guilt. Having only read some of your articles over the past couple months, I would have to say that you have a SPECIAL GIFT for this sort of stuff. A gift for determining Black Celebrity Men's guilt clairvoyantly before even the judge without any real facts, Publicly Lynching them for their transgressions, calling them dumb, stupid, or ghetto and writing long boring redundant articles relishing and gloating in their demise and proclaiming Victory for ominously predicting another DUMB GHETTO Ni$$A Down. Eddie Murphy, Wesley Snipes, Vick, Isiah Washington etc. As a matter of fact, I don't recall many things you've ever said positive about Black Men in any article. I think you should try it out (positive black men from Mo's point of view). You seem to write fiction articles pretty well. Is there anything personal you want to share with your readers cause when it comes to your longggggggg article with each topic paragraph being Vick is guilty and then pre arguing the counter points, you were indeed right. Your HATE is your Gift (I think). So you are da Man. Or are you?
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Hate? Not at all. But I will say this. Nobody is in denial about the inequity of the justice system. But what I can't stand is after you do something as STUPID as finance an interstate dog ring is the discussion moving towards racism.
Nobody should deny the existence of racism in the justice system, but when you do something this STUPID to allow racism even a voice in your future is not worthy of sympathy.
WE all know that Scooter Libby and folks (since you mentioned him) get breaks that we don't. That's not news. So discretion demands that you don't blow your 130 million dollar contract dogfighting.
That's not "hate." That's stupidity.
Stupid is as stupid does. And evidently you DON'T read my articles too closely because I didn't dump on Isaiah Washington. That article was clearly "Learn from this and let it go."
And yes, Eddie Murphy, Wesley Snipes et al are acting like fools. Indefensible behavior.
As for "positive" pieces, you've already acknowledged you haven't read me for long, so you just admitted error in that %*$essment. The news presents itself, I comment accordingly.
And if my stuff is "long," "boring" and "dumb" your continuing to read and your comments today mean what?
Thank you for your continued readership.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: As for the King comparison...
You're right, that's ridiculous. I clearly stated in a previous comment that sit-ins (i.e. civil rights movement) and other actions were done in full knowledge of the consequences of breaking the law.
BUT, never did civil rights CIRCUMVENT the law. If you and all 8 of your friends want to change the dogfighting laws...wonderful, take it up with your legislator. But the point here is that is a DIFFERENT discussion than with Michael Vick. Michael Vick is NOT a conscientious objector. He is a criminal, big difference.
The civil rights civil disobedience came as the LAST resort to help change the law, not as a means to have friends over, watch dogs kill each other and make money.
It's a ridiculous comparison any day of the week.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Nobody said the law was "fair"...I said that it is irrevelant in the discussion of Michael Vick.
The issue of Michael Vick is whether he's guilty...period. The issue of Michael Vick is whether racism played a role in determining his guilt...it did not.
We can go round and around about whether dogfighting "should" be a felony.
Well, take it up with your legislator. That doesn't have anything to do with Michael Vick. He wasn't working to change the law, he simply was egregiously defying it.
And if the law was so "unjust" why is it only an issue 'now."
Right...because nobody even cared or knew about the laws and that's Y'alls bad...not the law's bad.
The law's been around forever and we all knew it was illegal. You just want to get brand new when it sends a popular football player to jail.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: OH and lastly. It's funny one of you mentioned Wesley, Isaiah in connection to my writing on Vick.
ALL three were supposedly instances of "racism" and all three weren't.
So yeah, I'm gonna have the same opinion about all of them. That's the common thread.
Eddie Murphy, he's just a fool. But the rest of them, no...not racism.
Jena 6 - racism.
Genarlow Wilson - racism.
Michael Vick? GTFOH
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Oh, and where were you complaining about the "unfair" treatment of Martha Stewart?
She wasn't the only one insider trading. But that's what happens when you're a public figure, you can't do stupid ish.
My Lord, defending Michael Vick.
Where is your defense of Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips. All they did was "run" the business...where are your complaints in support of them?
Exactly.
|
|
Name:
DEEofVA
Comment: I only disagree with you on one point: it is tragic to be so stupid and reckless!
|
|
Name:
DEEofVA
Comment: "But I could not bring myself to stand up and defend him in this instance because as black people we need to save our defenses for people who look like they may be innocent."
And this is the most important point. It goes back to the column Mo' wrote about Al Sharpton's and Jesse Jackson's campaign against Don Imus...being right doesn't make you righteous. Black folks expend too much valuable time and energy defending the indefensible and on matters that have limited impact on the community as a whole, which only distracts attention, particularly media attention, from real evidence of social injustice like the Jena 6 and the nomination of Judge Leslie Southwick to the Federal Appeals Court. In this case, defending Michael Vick is neither right nor righteous.
|
|
Name:
TheBrownOne
Comment: Mo, I don't really see anyone in here defending Michael Vick.....i think more people feel bad that he made such bad decisions.......and I wanted the Falcons to have a good year....OH, and you did call Isiah dumb....and correction, I didn't say your article was dumb, just redundant.....there's a difference...your counterpoints when people challenge you never really make good sense to me....you just keep saying the same thing over and over without really acknowledging the point of the comment nor speaking to them.......Iamda1 sad in big words that he's not comparing him to King and that racism had nothing to do with his charge and you probably missed those big words in BOLD print and got a lil over emotional about being right......and righteous.........at ease soldier......your standing up for your race right? Don't want any of these "STUPID" ghetto black men bringing your race down right?
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Yes I know what I am the One said in BIG LETTERS...that's why I started my response with...
As for the King comparison...
You're right, that's ridiculous.
So CLEARLY I read what Iamda1 wrote.
Uh, it's not the STUPID actions of these Black men which are bringing us down...the actions are indicative of a MENTALITY which is bringing us down.
To actually think Michael Vick is even worthy of debate as to being treated "unfairly" is a joke.
If you came in and said, "You know what...Mo', you need to talk about the Jena 6" I'd hear you out.
But to lay the foundation of your complaint with the bricks of Michael Vick, Eddie Murphy and Wesley Snipes and ignore the fact that all of the aforementioned are not victims of racism and are not 1/10th of important in terms of needing our "support" instead of Genarlow Wilson or the Jena 6...is laughable.
Michael Vick should be #5,467 on the list of people you should be making an argument in support of on any level.
If you don't prefer my writing or subjects, then deal with that and that alone...but using Michael Vick as a jumping off point as to "what's wrong" with my writing or that I'm somehow suffering from self-hatred is way off base.
If Michael Vick, Eddie Murphy, Wesley Snipes and Isaiah Washington are the "best" argument you can make for that...then yes, you really don't read me on any regular basis.
That's a "you" problem, not me.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Here's someone who says it FAR better than I did...I highly encourage you to read it.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/0 70821
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And no...I refuse to concede that there's any "double standard" here or that Vick is being treated "unfairly."
Absolutely not.
When you KNOWINGLY commit felonies, you relinquish the right to cry "foul" after the fact.
And DO note, Vick has neither contended that the evidence against him was fabricated or he was wrongly persecuted.
He's ONLY said "I'm guilty"
Thank you and good night.
|
|
Name:
whynotme
Comment: --->morris will you let it rest now, you are going on and on saying the same thing by yourself now so please let it go nobody's debating with you anymore....GEEEESSSHH!
|
|
Name:
iamda1
Comment: Once again okelly is missing the point. The point is that Vick will get a harsher sentence because he is a black, non-conforming, wealthy individual that "they" can not control. I live in downtown Newport News and am one of the few young black males that owns my home out there. This is considered the worst part of town and EVERY year since I've lived here (2002) Vick has personally come into the neighborhoods and donated food, toys, gifts and given his time to the community. Not Missy, Timbaland, Pharrell, Iverson, Teddy Riley or any of them... just Vick. Him and his associates. I AM NOT SAYING THIS JUSTIFIES HIS ACTIONS OR IS WHY HE SHOULD GET SYMPATHY. What I'm saying is that his whole character is being summed up by this. I find it extremely odd that this much media attention wasn't given to fact he knowingly gave women an incurable STD, or trying to smuggle drugs on a plane post 9-11. No, he may lose everything because of dog-fighting. I don't know where you are from... but when you grow up in the inner city you don't view dogs the way others do. Especially not pit-bulls. They were drug dealers dogs and would fight in people's back yards just for bragging rights. If you grow up doing or seeing this, your views on it are tainted. The ONLY point in defense of Vick that anyone is arguing is that he will get a tougher sentence then ANY OTHER person convicted of dog fighting. How is that not worth defending? The Jena 6, Genarlow Wilson, Mumia Jamal, Rodney King etc... are all possible because of the continued racism in our justice system. If we commit the same crime... we deserve the same time. But this is not how it works. And this is now how its going to work in Vicks case. And if you think its fair, name ONE other dog fighting ring bust that commanded this many state and federal resources. My last point would be a known fact about hood life. Vick gave his friends money like most rich people do. He knew they were going to do something illegal with it, but didn't care. There is NO WAY with training camp, games, endorsements, travel, interviews etc... that Vick could have run this. There is a reason he will plead guilty... but there is also a reason the FEDS are willing to accept him only offering a plea to the trafficking of the dogs. Not the financing, killing, training, breeding, torturing or running the business. But that he drove across state lines to buy dogs that would have likely been used in a dog fighting operation. That is what he is pleading guilty for. Now find ANY other case in US history and see if Vick's punishment isn't more severe. THAT, okelly is the point I am stating.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I'm not allowed to respond...whynotme said let it go and nobody's debating me.
GEEEEEEESHSHHHH!
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: But I will say the ONLY reason that this bust required federal resources was because it was a FEDERAL DRUG RAID. The feds WERE ALREADY investigating his DRUG CONVICTED HOMIES.
How laughable you want to talk about the unfairness of a judicial system in terms of a guy who was funding an illegal enterprise with two convicted drug felons.
That's ridiculous.
Jemele Hill was absolutely right.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: You can't argue the unfairness of the judicial system through the felonies of Michael Vick and his drug dealing homies.
You gotta pick a better martyr than that.
The guy is guilty because of his choices. Since we agree that the judicial system is "unfair" at best...it probably means you shouldn't help fund his boys' drug enterprise
(which hasn't been talked about much yet)
And you shouldn't finance an illegal dog ring...since we agree that the legal system is tilted in his disadvantage.
Common sense ain't all that common it seems.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: By your argument...all the rappers who get cited for guns and weed in their car should claim racial profiling because we "know" about the history of cops and Black folks.
It's an EXACT comparison. The history of cops and judicial malfeasance should if anything implore you not to commit felonies, not claim racism after you get caught.
Like momma said...keep your nose clean (and go spend your 130 million)
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Iamda1
You're arguing a point that nobody is debating. We're in agreement that Black folks get harsher sentences than white counterparts.
That's clear.
But to say that Vick is somehow getting treated "unfairly" is simply ridiculous given his willful disobedience of the law.
You can finance a crack cocaine enterprise like Nino Brown and then argue how the sentences for cocaine are n't as stiff and benefit white people.
You can't willfully commit murder and then complain about how Black men are sentenced to death row more often than white men.
And you surely can't plead guilty to federal conspiracy charges and argue that "legal" hunting benefits white folks.
Michael Vick could have always chosen the legal options of hunting to satiate his thrill for the kill.
He instead chose the illegal one and now thrown himself on the mercy of a court that you and I both agree doesn't hold black men in high regard.
To do so (having nothing to do with the 130 million) is ignorant.
No sympathy here. He flaunted the law and dared it to touch him.
Well it's getting ready to put hands on him.
|
|
Name:
iamda1
Comment: Of course keeping one's "nose clean" is always advised... yet rarely followed. Its as if you're saying he broke the law so he should get whatever they give him regardless of whether it is fair or just. Vick is not thee martyr... just the latest. Or are you saying that injustice only matters to those who are innocent? And the reason more people should speak about the injustice happening with Vick is because it happens in the hood all the time. People are subjected to an unfair judicial system and locked up with no one speaking up for them. They don't have high priced lawyers, PR people and money to make jail at least comfortable. The same injustice, prejudice and racism that is going to affect Vick's punishment, is the same that affects every law breaker in our community. If they'll do it to a man of his status, fame and wealth... what will they do to the working class or poverty stricken. Jena 6, the young girl in Texas who shoved the teacher (her name escapes me at the moment) and others have had the luxury of being in the spotlight. How many cases like this do you think exist to the voiceless people. Like him or not, due to his money and endorsements and our capitalistic society, Vick is viewed with more prestige by society then the working class man. So imagine what they'll do to me. You keep bringing up his guilt as a basis for whatever happens and nobody is disputing he's guilty. Growing up how I did and seeing him from time to time in Newport News, I knew he was guilty when the charges came out. Only people outside of Newport News didn't already know. He was involved in dog fighting. He was charged with trafficking DOGS... not narcotics, weapons, etc... but dogs. Give him the same sentence the last dog trafficker received. You and I both know it's not going to happen. That is what I support Vick through. I don't pity or sympathize with him about being caught or the law being ignorant in my opinion. It is that if he were not a rich, black athlete he would be looking at a completely different trial and/or sentence.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I've always been of the opinion in an individual and a collective sense that if I/we take care of home or worry about ourselves first...the rest will take care of itself.
I understand that this capitalistic White dominated society (and life as a whole) is inherently unfair, racist, classist and elitist.
But that knowledge informs and influences my actions and behavior. It also protects me.
I understand that there are certain things that I as a Black man just can't do.
It's not fair that if I dress a certain way I'm perceived as a gangbanger, though I'm not. But I also know that bad clothing decisions put me in harm's way (police or otherwise) so I act accordingly.
I can't put myself in a criminal situation because I know I have too much at stake and will NOT get the benefit of the doubt from the system.
And you're assuming that Michael Vick ISN'T going to get the same sentence as the last dogfighting trafficker. I don't really know who was the last person to personally bankroll an operation of this magnitude black or white. So let's be honest in %*$essing Michael Vick's role versus the "average" dogfighter. Vick has sunk (and bet) arguably millions of dollars into this operation.
To use the drug analogy you mentioned. That's why possession is not the same as distribution in the eyes of the law and the amount of "product" also matters as well.
But since we agree that he is "guilty" and we agree that the system is "unfair" at best. We're really not disagreeing at all.
I just place more "responsibility" on Vick because like you and I already know. He shoulda known better. He HAS to know better and DO better given his status.
Not acting as such is a failure on his part, not the system which was already broken.
|
|
Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Despite what "others" may say, I appreciate the continued dialogue and truly I "listen" to everyone. If I didn't thee wouldn't be any point in engaging anyone in the comment section.
|
| Back to Top |
| Click here to post your comments. |
| Back to the Article » Click Here |
|---|
...
