Sat, Nov 21, 2009
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: On point. Women as a whole are far too quick to judge what is right or wrong in someone else's relationship and slow to correct what is wrong in our own. Men cheat, women cheat. It's grimy no matter who's doing it, whether having "reasons" or "excuses".
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Darryl, this was a good article, but imo had a lot of holes. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say you speak of this issue first-hand cuz in each article I've read from you on this or a related subject, you use very harsh language towards women, like in this artilce, "stupid." But moving on. On some points I agree with you: 1) married women choosing to stay in their marriages with cheating men is nobody else's dang business, lol and 2) women cheating is just as wrong as men cheating. On those points, you're right. Now for the holes: 1) You are being disingenuous to try to paint the breadth of women and men cheating the same, it is not the same. I think women have much more self-control than do men, and if gathering stats on this were possible (it's not cuz people wouldn't tell the truth), I think the facts would bear out that more men cheat than women...and not always because their partner is deficient in some way or is not "meeting their needs" or whatever else b.s. Sometimes, men's biological inclination to "spread seed" takes over their intellectual restraint. Moving on. 2) You say you're a journalist and thus "research before speaking about an issue," but did you research Dr. Laura? Beyond the fact that she's a fauxconservative tool, she also has some baggage that likely point to why she's defending cheating men. From wikipedia: "While working at USC, she met Dr. Lewis G. Bishop, who was married with dependent children. According to divorce filings, Schlessinger and Bishop began an affair. Bishop left his wife after more than 20 years of marriage, and moved in with Schlessinger. They lived together as an unmarried couple, and Schlessinger tried to get pregnant after reversing an earlier tubal ligation and suffering an ectopic pregnancy. They married in early 1985, eight years after beginning their relationship, and Bishop became Schlessinger's business manager." So um, citing Dr. Laura as a credible source on this is problematic, to say the least. lol Nice try though Darryl.
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Name:
DarrylJames
Comment: Actually, TGen, you prove my point with your loopy dissent. Instead of presenting a real basis, you just got personal, which is not a position, it just sounds like I made you angry. Where did you get that this was personal for me? Did I cite a personal situation? You’re making an assumption because I used the word “stupid.” What about when I call men “stupid” or “ignorant?” What about when I call Jesse Jackson or Cosby “bitches?” And who gives a flying F about Dr. Laura’s personal business? She’s still a professionally trained psychologist!
Stop trying to make this a men vs. women thing, because it’s not. Many American women behave exactly the way I stated and you prove it with this post. You somehow figure that you have a right to comment on my personal business (which you are not privy to, you only assume) and Dr. Laura’s (which you should be careful when citing Wikipedia—it’s NOT always reliable, since it’s mostly based on anyone who posts to it), but even with your personal swipes, you still didn’t prove your point, if you actually have one.
DARRYL is disingenuous? You really sound goofy, now. How in twelve hells do you make such a sweeping analysis of men and women and why they cheat? You state that it’s impossible to gather stats and then go on to state that the “facts” bear out your position. WTF? That’s duplicitous and just makes no damned sense!! Stop it because you are making me laugh and I almost spilled my tea!
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: What about men that are unable to receive the love and kindness that a woman that “understands” can give? I recall dating men that broke up with me because they didn’t understand why I was so trusting and understanding to our relationship. One man told me he wasn’t ready to marry, because he wanted to still mess around and he couldn’t mess around on me so he broke up with me. It’s a two way road giving and receiving. You can rationalize and reason with your mate, but if he or she deems themselves unworthy of love; there’s nothing anyone can do except let them go, so they can become whole. There’s nothing more tiresome than trying to validate an individual that can’t even look in the mirror to see what you see.
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Name:
Kofi
Comment: TGEN you did prove Darryl's point. You state that more men than women cheat. How would you know this? TGEN you have been reading DJ long enough to know that if you got personal he was going to hit back. (what any normal person would do) Hetro men enganed in outside relationships would tend to cheat with women. I have seen surveys on infidelity and they indicate that men and women cheat in roughly the same numbers. I think it is less socially acceptable for women to have multiple partners than for men. If a man mentions he has multiple partners outside his primary relationship, he may be highly regarded by his peers. Conversely, a woman engaged in similar behaviors is more likely to be viewed as a ho. That still doesn't stop women.
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: Tgen ~ I disagree that women have more self-control.. a lot of women subconsciously push men to cheat, with their nagging and contentious behavior. I’ve seen first hand women that are on a war path and it’s not a pretty site! I told a friend I understand now why some men leave or date non-black women because they desire peace, respect and understanding. A lot of my sister’s talk their way out of a lot of things thinking their nickel & dime slick but shorting themselves a dollar. I am around very sharp, street savvy, pretty & well-educated women that own their own homes and business but are NOT married and are unable to keep a relationship. I love them but great sex, cooking is not only what sustains a relationship and nick-picking will destroy it! On another note Wikipedia is soooo unreliable don’t trust a tenth of what it being reported.
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Name:
DarrylJames
Comment: Sexee, the only way to answer your question is the same way I answer any question about why men behave badly—the same reason why women behave badly. In the case of the man you were talking about, he sounds damaged internally and there is nothing a woman can do good or bad—he needs therapy. I’ve dated women like that—very pretty, but unable to hear it, because of internal damage that gives way to self-deprecation. They need a LOT of validation to fill that bottomless hole in their self-esteem, which many tend to seek in multiple relationships with men, instead of therapy.
Kofi—on point fa’ sho! When women cheat, they tend to be more covert about it, because of the social stigma, but that doesn’t mean they don’t do it.
Sexee, your second post is also science! That’s why I write about women who claim that they can’t find a man on their level, or that men are afraid of commitment—sometimes, they can’t get or keep a man because of they way they treat them. However, I can’t roll with you on the interracial dating piece for two reasons: 1) 95% of all married Black men are married to Black women. 2) Non-Black women can be nagging and contentious as well. That’s not just Black women. Escape is not to be found in other races, but in whole, healthy people. But your point is not missed—women who think they are perfect girlfriends and wives need to check out how they treat the men they claim to love.
AND, I’m glad I’m not the only one who realizes that going to Wikipedia is not "research." It’s clicking on a BS website and then claiming to have done research. That’s sad and funny at the same time, but sooooooo American!
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Wow Darryl, I take it back. This women cheating thing is not personal for you, disrespecting people with incendiary language is just your forte, huh? lol Frankly, I did prove my point. My POINT was that your post had holes, which I enumerated for you. And Dr. Laura's background IS relevant because you validate your article based on what she said as if her schooling makes her some kind of expert on this very subjective and opionated subject. If this were a trial, she would be dismissed as a potential juror because her background permeates with bias. She is essentially the mistress defending other mistresses and the triflin men they cheat with. But somehow you don't see that. Somehow I'm "silly" or "loopy" for pointion out this. Beyond the article though, I think you should be more grateful and graceful, to have someone read--really read--and comment on your articles. Obviously, I find something appealing about your writing to return to your articles each week. And if you've noticed, I always start out my posts with positive reinforcement towards you. Too bad I can't say the same about you. You are graceless, a very unfortunate trait, and one that if this is a personal topic for you, I can clearly understand why your girl(s) were inclined to cheat, if you speak to them in the manner you responded to me. But I digress...
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: Darryl ~ when you look under the hood as oppose to the façade you see that most men/women are running on hot air as oppose to gas (rhetoric and cliché’s has gotten them thru relationships). They have all the ANSWERS and don’t know any of the questions. My ex that wasn’t ready to marry me, wasn’t sure that I wanted him because I didn’t put on contrived acts of kindness(that so many men/women do). He knew all my actions were real and authentic no manipulation behind it. I wanted him to do well whether he was with me or another woman. He wasn’t ready and I established a communicating relationship with us so that he could tell me so. I never liked playing games especially with someone I’m loving….
I don’t agree with black men dating non-black women, but I do understand why some desire/ wanting peace in their life (after spending time with some nagging/contentious women). I firmly believe it’s not what you do, but how you do it! You can attract more honey with bees.
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Name:
DarrylJames
Comment: Real talk, Sexee. We see that with TGen—all hot air, claiming to have the answers, but not even knowing the questions. I’m just happy that you didn’t allow his internal damage to damage you. And as for peace, you’re right, I have women that I stopped seeing after one date, because of their nagging, but they still wanted to keep dating, claiming they could make me happy because they were "sweet" and "smart." Who wants to deal with p iss and vinegar all the time?
Speaking of vinegar, TGen, I just put your silly azz on IGNORE status, because all you are doing is ramrodding the same tired BS and it still makes no sense. If you can’t hear it from me, read Kofi and Sexee’s posts. You are transparent. You can put perfume on a pig, but its still a stanky barnyard animal. You are conflicted and silly. How dare you get personal with me and then recoil at me getting personal with you? Stay out of the toilet if you don’t like the smell of crap.
Dr. Laura’s background may be relevant in a court of law, but she is NOT on trial and frankly, you never presented her background, just some BS you got from Wikipedia. You quote a source commonly known to be unreliable, yet you want to impugn a Board certified psychologist. You have no point, you’re just goofy!
But what you keep proving is that anytime a man comments on relationships, some women will tear him to pieces for saying anything that seems to be negative about women—even if it is true. If I wrote about how men are dogs, you’d be cheering me. I already know you don’t really have a problem with Darryl James, you’re just using me to vent since you won’t get therapy. This is obviously a sore area for you, but since I am human, I won’t serve as your whipping boy. Focus on the issue and not Darryl James and we can keep it cool forever.
You may think I am graceless, but I was being cool with you at first. Now, I’ll be honest: you are also graceless and ignorant. As I said, this is obviously personal for you, because you keep trying to make it personal for me and for Dr. Laura, when you don’t know either of us. Its called PROJECTION. You don’t know me, idiot—my "girls" never cheated on me, but it’s obvious that your "girls" have always cheated on you. LOL!!
Grateful for you reading and commenting? HA! I don’t give two shyts if you read and/or comment on my articles here or in any other paper or website that carries it—one monkey don’t stop no show!
And, once again, you proved the article correct. You want to attack me, but then claim to be innocent. Even as you claim to retract, you toss more BS at me. Stop making this personal! I’m not your ex-boyfriend, I’m a stranger on the internet!
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Name:
TGen
Comment: DarrylJames, how you compare my first post to your abusive language is beyond me. And you keep saying wikipedia is unreliable--but don't give any OPPOSING INFO, lol. So what the hell is your beef? Any writer worth his/her salt is grateful to have READERS, that's how it works Darryl. I can't even go through all the names you called me, "pig, idiot, etc," but all reflect less on me and my "tame" posts and more on you. Like I said, you are graceless. I cannot teach you class, that's something your momma or dad should have done. This reminds me of your "Men shouldn't pay on the first date" post a while back. You took that one to the extreme too, when anyone gave any semblance of dissent. Your temper is seething through your post, you're coming off like a psycho. Finally, I don't know you, never claimed to, have no desire to, I just guessed that this must have been a personal issue for you, else your language wouldn't have been as harsh as it was for this, what amounts to a minor subject...but the more you speak (write) on this, the more I know I was right. But that's cool, your perogative, your column. Oh yeah, I just thought about something, you probably won't read this since I'm now on "IGNORE," huh? Kofi or Sexee, relay what I said to your boy. Gracias!
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Name:
tinkius
Comment: Right on Mr. James! This was a great article, one of the best I've read.
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Name:
MzTee
Comment: Excellent article! Keep it up DJ...your last few articles have been on point.
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: Darryl ~ I am secure in who and what I am. So no one can damage my self image because I know I am the bomb. I only wish that people will slow down to listen. We live in a “microwave” society that is so in tuned and enlightened that they forget the basics and that’s treating people the way you want to be treated”. After all these years he and I still talk, he knew that his time has came and passed. Most think that after they sow their royal oates that it’s okay to back to the relationship that they froze (un un). My body is and always will be a temple not to be shared with everyone but to be treasured by only one.
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: Darryl ~ you also have to remember that some people don't feel close to an individual unless they break the ice by picking a fight/arguing.. Once they break that ice they feel intimate with the person.. You bust her cherry (sorry about the language), now you too can become more intimate in your postings.. Like relationships, most don't feel complete until they make their mate's cheat.. Weird but true.... Now ya'll kiss and make up.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: I agree that men and women cheat but I don't know who cheats the most and don't know reliable sources for the information . . . I want to know the basis of this azzertion: "My focus is to get more people to deal with the fact that not only do both sides cheat, but even when men cheat, they cheat with a woman." . . . we know that we live in the era of the down low brothers, so I'm not clear on how the azzertion can be proved or disproved
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Name:
DarrylJames
Comment: Thanks Tinkius, MzTee. Sexee, you hit it. That’s one of the points I was making in the article and on the message board—give only what you want to get back, but expect to get back what you have given. If people listened and really paid attention, hey would probably find more common ground and communication than dissention and divorce.
But, Sexee—you know you are a FOOL for your second comment!! So, you mean that TGen just wanted to feel close to me and she only got out of pocket so that I would "bust her cherry" in an argument? You are crazy. LOL! But if she becomes my new best friend, I guess I’ll have to label you a genius.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: LOL Sexee, that was funny. I must admit, I do loke to be a rabble rouser sometimes, but usually that endears the writers to me, most say they love how I engage their points of view. Rarely, am I greeted with the hostility that DarrlJames shows. It just kinda threw me off, that's all...but whatever, time to get off. Have a great day.
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Name:
DarrylJames
Comment: Actually, Harris, the %*$ertion is valid because the "down low" brother can not be proven to be prevalent. Homosexuals (men, women, Black, white, etc.) have always been undercover because of the social stigma. In fact, the whole down low hype makes no sense because homosexuals have more public tolerance than ever before, so if anything, there would be fewer undercover homosexuals. No one can prove beyond conjecture that Black men are participating in some secret homosexual behavior at any larger rate than previously, or any larger rate than anyone else. Therefore, as in standard philosophical arguments, the %*$ertion is valid, that as Kofi underscored: "Hetero men engaged in outside relationships would tend to cheat with women."
My point in making the %*$ertion is that no one can say that men cheat more than women and that the women they are cheating with are also cheaters.
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: You know I am right! You held back in the beginning Darryl, but the passion wouldn’t let you hold back any longer. Tgen, needed to feel close to you so she pushed the right buttons then finally you gave in, your energy flowed into her, in the form of insults, she thought (oh he really cares).... Passion brought into fruition …. I’m just saying……
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: DJ, you have tweaked your original azzertion "even when men cheat, they cheat with a woman" by saying "no one can say that men cheat more than women and that the women they are cheating with are also cheaters" and I agree with the tweaked statement . . . I disagree about "hype" on down low men who cheat with men because the only sketchy information that we have is that down low men exist and because they exist largely in secret, we won't know how extensive the situation is . . . not all gays are comfortable enough to come out of the closet [the higher comfort level for coming out of the closet is in select urban pockets]
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Name:
Fantastic49
Comment: Interesting article, Darryl and I appreciate the diminished name-calling :) I keep hearing about both men and women cheating b/c they don't feel they are getting what they need out of their relationships...what about the prospect of not cheating b/c of yourself? As a reformed cheater, I don't cheat any more, but it has nothing to do with a man I am in a relationship with...I don't cheat b/c cheating is no longer a part of my value system...the man is interchangeable, it has nothing to do with him. Why are we relying on another person to somehow know exactly what to do to keep us from cheating?
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Name:
DrKnowItAll
Comment: I am a researcher myself and I believe there is no rhyme or reason to cheating. Cheating is done with more precision and stealth by females. Men cheat mostly because they desire a physical moment with another. I've cheated on girlfriends before with nothing but sexual conquest and momentary satisfaction on my mind. They had done nothing to lead me to another woman's loins..I WANTED TO and even to this day can't explain why I did it except momentary pleasure!!! You can poll 100 people and get 100 different answers on why people cheat when in most reality the answer is very simple. They cheated because they wanted to at that moment. If the cheating is more than a 1 time event then someone is looking for a reason to get out of a relationship. Nobody can cheat consistently and not have their mate notice. It's simply not possible for those of us who have a brain. Behaviors are too trained and mental awareness dulls over time. Cheating is all about self control and mental strength or lack thereof. Science will never prove or disprove anything otherwise.
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Name:
SanDiego
Comment: As long as American women continue to pretend that cheating is a “man thing,” there will be less understanding and possibly more cheating.
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Name:
dcdouglass01
Comment: Fortitude has gotten his marching orders from Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. and is parroting their "threw his grandmother under the bus" line. Good job, my ignorant soldier. But the line itself is weak and silly, and is already losing momentum on the very same conservative talk programs from where it first took flight.
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Name:
dcdouglass01
Comment: oops...wrong thread.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: Excellent article Darryl...and for the record I am a woman and I did not come across any holes. Women cheat just as much as men and from my exposure to it -- for different reasons. I have a woman friend who claims she married for security to a much older man, has cheated on him for most of the relationship, and years later is terribly tormented which led her to a litany of abuses. The older man is still with her, yet she is still cheating. In her mind it's all about her and what she wants (material things) -- she should be happy but she is not. From spending a day with her I felt sorry for her because I learned that karma indeed is alive and well and not always rearing in the ways we think it will….I have a male friend who cheats, he's married, found out after the marriage that the wife uses drugs (something he is vehemently against) the wife claims he does not satisfy her -- yet she has male children. So in this situation I guess he's a great role model, takes care of her & her boys but he does nothing for her sexually. Explain that one; honestly I don't think either one of them can because undoubtedly she cheats too. Money, property and a drastic lifestyle change (for her) are involved. I don’t judge but I do remind him that no decision is a decision. In the case of Gov. Patterson (NY's new Gov. post Spitzer scandal) it came out that the wife cheated first and he supposedly cheated out of anger. What's impressive about them is that as a black man & women they worked it out AND they came forward with way too much information but more importantly told it all themselves. Did it stop one woman from coming forward to say she was with him recently and he helped her get a government job -- no. Sorry ladies but sometimes we can be out own worst enemy and I can’t imagine what this “broad” (because that’s how she treated herself) wanted to accomplish. In my opinion she made herself look bad. I would think a part of cheating includes knowing when to fall back – guess not. As someone posted earlier, some cheat for the physical thrill (both men and women do that – only no one ever really talks about women cheating)…and some engage in extramarital relationships because they are not engaged at home but claim to want security (mostly women want the security and the good men get taken for a ride or the men are so busy providing and the women just come up with bigger lists and a non appreciative attitude). Emotional relationships (it’s much more than an affair) are much more damaging because they really aren’t rooted in sex no matter how you slice, dice and serve it up. You can get sex anywhere. A listening ear, compassion, and inspiration aren’t so easy to come by.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: Lastly look at the Kerry Washington character in the remake of “Chloe in the Afternoon” (I Think I Love My Wife) -- (she is typical of most of my 37+ female friends who realize they are getting older and can’t afford a decent place to live and the career is dwindling). She married the professional dude and acknowledged to Chris Rock she didn’t love the guy but might in 2 – 3 years. What’s up with that? Come on ladies we all know someone (a women) who did that. But what I find interesting about men is that usually they pick someone and get married. Hands down it’s usually a damsel in distress. I can take of myself but PLEASE don’t call me independent. I don’t know everything and I’m not a man nor I can create that intrinsic value that a man can. This is where most women get it twisted…On another note, what I admire about Darryl James that some women don’t is that he goes there and tackles the “elephant in the room” topics – topics women harp on but when men speak most times “we” don’t want to listen. If a man feels comfortable, feels loved and appreciated I find they are an open book…and actually when I think about it when a women feels that she responds the same way. It’s the “slickeration” that causes the confusion and both men and women are responsible for that!!
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Name:
amethyst
Comment: Another good one, Darryl. I appreciate hearing a man's point of view, it helps me to consider things from a different perspective. I've always said "It takes two whole people to make one whole relationship." As you and Sexee have discussed, if you meet someone who has self-esteem issues Run, Forrest, Run. It is not my responsibility to help someone else deal with his/her esteem, trust or other issues. Get yourself together before you get emotionally involved with someone else. Also, karma does exist, and you will eventually get back what you put out. I've known men and women who have cheated, and the bottom line is no matter their reasons/excuses, they made a DECISION to be unfaithful, conniving and a liar. Someone mentioned being self-centered, I think this is also a part of the problem, along with a lack of self-control. Spitzer, Kwame, McGreevey, Jesse Jackson, Bill Clinton, Bill Campbell, Kobe Bryant, and others may have considered how their actions would impact their children, spouses, parents and others but still CHOSE to cheat. Sorry, I don't know of any prominent women whose cheating has been exposed; please feel free to throw their names in here.
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Name:
amethyst
Comment: Also, thanks for mentioning that usually men cheat with women, so those women are cheater co-conspirators. Kwame's mistress was also married, so she chose to cheat on her husband and as-sist Kwame with cheating on his wife. Monica Lewinsky, Kobe's and Jesse's women all knew these men are married. I have no sympathy for women who knowingly cheat with a married or committed man. My co-worker was involved with someone's husband for almost a year, and I gave her hell for it whenever she said something about it (never understood why she would say things knowing how I felt about it). The irony is that she was divorcing her husband for consistently cheating throughout their marriage of 10+ years. Huh? I asked her how could she bring pain to another woman when she knew firsthand how that felt. She couldn't answer. I believe she is so damaged and hurt that she is self-centered and didn't give a dang about anyone else. Again, karma comes around and she found out the trifling man was involved with a third woman, and had at least one fling with a fourth one. He is damaged goods for real. He desperately needs an appointment with a psychologist, and his mistresses need to sit in the waiting room.
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: Amethyst ~ Does karma comes back if ,1. A woman knows what she has (a cheating man) but he is not the kind of man that is normally attracted to her 2. She overlooks his discretions as long as he comes home to her. She may huff & puff about the women but she never kicks him out... In that event does karma come back? In a sense it’s getting what you pay for.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: Sexee...you are truly on point!
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Name:
MzTee
Comment: Sexee...I believe Karma comes back. It doesn't have to be in the same manner in which you projected it to the universe. I think any kind of intentional mistreatment of another living being comes back to bite you in that azz. It doesn't have to be a tit-for-tat type of thing. In those two examples you cited, what were those womens' relationships with others like prior to their marriages. Point being, they could have done all kinds of negative/bad things to ex-boyfriends or others (parents, children, friends, animals, etc.) that they are NOW reaping all of that negative karmetic energy in their marriages.
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: MzTee ~ I have no prior knowledge of her previous relationships. All I know is she loves his dirty draws. I must admit he is fine as heck! You would never put those two together. I do I know she is paying him, monetary, car and he doesn’t have to work. She is fully aware of his credentials (he’s very beguiling). Yet she expects him to be faithful. The only reason he is there because she puts up with his mess and another woman will not do the same. He leaves for months at a time and when another rwoman gets sick of him, he goes back to her (with open arms). My thought is this, how can Karma come back to you when you walk into foolishness with open arms? In a sense that is what you want.
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