Sun, Nov 22, 2009
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Name:
ChocolateBrownGa1
Comment: Video of her trip is posted on google and youtube. No sniper fire or running to vehicles.
ttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=251259651438903 9030
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Name:
TRTR
Comment: The Clintons -- liars to the end. They -- and that definitely includes Bill -- will do anything to get back in the White House with all the power, privilege, perks, and special treatment at their fingertips. Chelsea is down with it too. No more Bushes and Clintons, please.
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Name:
Taurusingr
Comment: Let's just hope THIS gets the same DAMN press as the Wright story!! But I don't anticipate THAT!!! It's just ANOTHER LIE HRC is caught in!!! I hope SOMEBODY on "O"'s behalf starts making the statements (aggressive TRUTH) about HRC that "O" CAN'T make!!! They would just hold HIM guilty of TELLING THE TRUTH like they did Wright!! And by the way... It needs to be somebody...WHITE! The ONLY people YT will listen to!!
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Name:
fanteeking
Comment: Tauris--No, they're gonna sweep this lie under the rug with all those other lies and not recognize how lumpy the rug is getting. HRC is like Don Quijote and Bill is like Sancho Panza riding their trusty steeds (One's name is Rocin & I ferget the other) Iwuz a Spanish major. on the plains and hallucinating and seeing windmills. HRC ought be ashamed of herself telling those bald faced lies. She'd do anything short of laying down with a snake. (Hsssttt! Sounds of horny snakes slithering toward her.
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Name:
Selah
Comment: Her four word response, "Sinbad is a comedian" My four word response: "You are a Liar"
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Name:
Tiedie
Comment: CBS is reporting it: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080325/ts_nm/usa_politics _clinton_video_dc
Of course now her people are claiming the gunfire was on the surrounding hillside. This heifer will stop at nothing to make herself look good! Bill should go sit his azz down somewhere because when he could have been chasing Bin Laden he was too busy chasing Monica around a desk with a cigar. The only sniper fire Hillary witness was Bill firing on Monica's blue dress.
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Name:
goodnplenty1957
Comment: i saw the clip..the C-17 parked, the ramp opened, they CASUALLY walked out. NO FLACK JACKETS, no brisk walks. i was a flight crewmember in the air force (me and sinbad were in the same squadron, same crew position), and flown into many of areas of hostilities, (Somalia, Saudia, UAE, even in Boznia). to get off the plane, if it was that bad of a situation, would have meant flying in there at night with no lights. EVER NOTICE WHEN THESE OTHER POLITICIANS FLY IN, ITS ALWAYS IN THE DAYTIME (Kodak moment for them). HRC is trippin and sensationalizing (as usual). So Hillary, at 3am, when that phone rings, who has more experience, you or O'bam..oops i meant McCAIN? ..guess you didnt expect that one will come back to haunt you! win the battle but lose the war,,at the same time feed the competition fodder to use at a later date? THE SAD PART...America is going, "See this is why a black or female has never been taken serious for the presidency. Both of them fighting each other (and they in the same party). So how do they expect them to run a country of different parties?
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Now she's saying she mispoke! Why is it white folks will tell a lie or sling a racial insult in a new york minute and then turn around and try to clean it up. Billary was hoping Sheryl Crow and Sinbad either didn't remember or were so busy now they wouldn't acknowledge her lie. I'd also like to know why is it when she's dragging Obama's laundry through the dirt it's okay but when she's called on her shat all of a sudden, it's inconquential. GHank if you come to the board brother, you must explain this to me.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: FanteeKing you have to first have shame before you can be ashamed. Billary has progressively shown her supporters and detractors what she is capable of and willing to do and in that her camp helped to make a mountain out of Rev. Wright she should have known she would have to come correct or be quiet. She should have just kept her mouth shut - that was way too much willingness to tell a straight up lie.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: I hope everyone saw yesterday how HRC tried to hem and haw her way out of Lies about her trip to Bosnia.... I haven't forgooten how in 2002, HRC repeated everything that George Bush said about invading Iraq. That is when I started to realize that HRC was not wise or on the side of the People.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: I posted before I read the Board's comments and the Truth is now before us. Yes GHank, CaliGirl, and others...explain this away....
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: I can hear it now. HRC will now say that Sheryl Crow is just a "Singer". In other words, pay no attention to my Lies...Just vote for me and I will set you free (Lyrics stolen from The Temptations "Ball Od Confusion").
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Name:
iowagee
Comment: Come'on now! If it really went down like Hillary said, wouldn't have Sinbad added that to his comedy routine. Talking about his big butt tryin' to dodge bullets? That would have been automatic. You know what it smells like.....
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: Ball Of Confusion...
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Name:
ChocolateBrownGal
Comment: Whenever hear HRC babbling...i can only think of one song...B. Joel's Honesty...."Honesty...is such a lonely word, everyone is so untrue; Honesty, is hardly ever heard and mostly what I need from you."
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: Apparently, habitual lying is a Clinton family trait.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: 'Nas...Ghank won't be able to explain it because he doesn't think it's a big deal...and he feels it's only an attempt to discredit his choice candidate. Again, it's not her fault for blatantly lying about something so important to her candidacy, it's the media's and clinton opponents fault.
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Name:
golfebj
Comment: Hahahahaha!
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: LMAO! I know Musb I would just like him to try as I am trying to understand why a strapping well liked black man is even supporting Billary.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Soulmusic if we think about it there is a lot of music from the 70s that literally applies to this campaign - the musicians of my era knew what would happen if we concentrated too hard on achieving the amerikkkan dream!
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Name:
GHank
Comment: "Welcome to the Obama Phi Obama Fraterity Inc. ROLL CALL: Greetings... Big Brother Sooooulmusic101 of Obama Phi Obama Inc. OBAMITES>>>>Greetings...Big brother Muuuuuusbedherbs ALL MIGHTY" of Obama Phi Obama Inc." OBAMITES>>>>>Greetings..Big Brother MccccNaaaaasty of Obama Phi Obama Inc(Ha-ha) You guys won't quit!!!!! If you only knew what you guys sound like> OK....I am conceding. (waving the white flag) I really don't want to fight with you guys anymore. Just do me a favor, quit all the name calling.. it really isn't getting anyone anywhere.
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Name:
Jacque
Comment: One viewer's response taken from the Cafferty Files (CNN), when Jack Cafferty posed this question: Why would Hillary Clinton not tell the truth about her trip to Bosnia in March of 1996? - - -
She was just using a common resume-building technique, citing experience if you are in the general vicinity of a job requirement. She also ignored the number one resume fudging rule: don't lie if there are witnesses! --- Bob, Richmond, Virginia
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Name:
dcdouglass01
Comment: "Sinbad is a comedian." What a snide remark, and yet another insight into who this privileged, flawed woman is. Also on the trip were reporters. And cameras. Cameras that showed you, not running to cars while under sniper fire, but cooing a little girl. The lesson in all this for you, Hillary, is before telling tall tales to demonstrate how brave you want us to believe you are, check the tape. Or better yet, just tell the truth. But that may be difficult at this point because your desire to be president is so great, it's left you delusional and willing to do anything to get there.
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Name:
Exmun
Comment: Her 'story' doesn't even make sense even if there was no Sinbad or video footage to disprove the statement. Is she SERIOUSLY saying that the President would send his WIFE and his then-TEENAGE DAUGHTER directly in the line of fire for a diplomatic mission? That story was unbelievable even without the footage to back it up... though proof that Hill is a liar doesn't hurt.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: GHank you have become a joke...you get upset when HRC is called on it and you won't address the issue. I thought that you were above name-calling??? You now sound like your Idol, Bill Clinton...lol
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Name:
Exmun
Comment: GHank.... McNasty is a woman. Just an FYI.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: McNasty and others...if you get a chance go to pbs.org and check out Bill Moyers take on the flick "Body Of War".
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Name:
GHank
Comment: soulmusic101>>>I'm sorry if you are so serious. I was only trying to inject some humor. I'm not name calling. I really don't get upset when people talk about Hillary...just trying to point out that she has as many votes as Barak has. I even went as far to say that Obama should focus on McCain and let Hillary trip over her own feet. My candidate was John Edwards but he's been long gone. I really don't have a beef with you, McNasty or Mus.
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Name:
SouthernYankee
Comment: I hope someone brings up all her obvious lies during the next debate with Obama. So she can lie and stumble in front of a live audience. Maybe then people will realize, we dodn't need her in the white house.
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Name:
GHank
Comment: Exmun>>>>Yes, I know McNasty is a woman.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: GHank...Hey "Brother" address the issue of HRC and Bosnia. Show the Board your mighty wisdom...we are waiting. Yesterday you were so passioniate about HRC and now you have nothing too say? Vote for who you want, just don't get upset when I call your Idol HRC to the carpet.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: LMAO @ Ghank...No sir, you do realize how you sound? On both today AND y'day I ONLY pointed out that Hillary lied about her experience in Bosnia. That's not being a fanatic (as you like to call it). It's pointing out a lie..that's all..nothing else. Yet, instead of dealing w/the lie..you choose to turn the table and make it about Obama and his supporters. This isnt about anything other than her lies...that's all...nothing else. It's a fact that she lied. Sorry if pointing that out offends your sensibilities. BTW, if you can find a post of mine where I made up stuff about Hillary..just to make it up..then I'd like to read it. Having "just as many" votes won't get you the nomination in any election...presidential or otherwise.
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: This is an INDIRECT attack against Obama. Create division/diversion in the Democratic party and the campaign will be OURS.. Two words Hills,, FALL BACK! Get out of the race.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: Can't keep running away...you have been exposed...lol
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Name:
Sexee
Comment: Republicans are enjoying the insurrections that HILLS & Bills are creating.. Two freaking losers!
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Name:
Kofi
Comment: I watched Larry King last night and they had Ari Flischer (a former Bush Spokesperson) A Clinton startegist, A Republican strategist and one Obama supporter all discussing Obama'a campaign. The brotha held his own but was outnumbered 3to 1. Larry King is usually a softball show in favor of the politician they are discussing. If Larry King is this biased, the coverage of Obama during the general election will be much worse. The media lies will be much bolder and blatant.
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Name:
naturalsista
Comment: i posted last night that anderson cooper did a breaking news that hillary lied (she claims misspoke) about landing under sniper fire. yesterday we, obama supporters, were called fanatics, delusional, etc. and that we were attempting to discredit hillary. well it seems she is doing a pretty good job of discrediting herself.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: Here is a theory that is floating around. HRC can't win so why not praise McCain and slander Obama. McCain gets 4 years and HRC can try again in 2012.
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Name:
GHank
Comment: What's there to address? She was caught! OK...What do you want me to do? You guys like to beat a dead horse. (LOL!)I already stated that if Obama wins the nomination, I will vote for him.
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: Maybe its me, but I think that if I were to land in an area where there was sniper fire and I had to literally run for cover, it would be a pretty memorable experience. So I guess my question in all of this is, how could she have mispoken as she claims? Did perhaps she get this trip mixed up with some other trip in which she had this aleged experience? Too many to recall exactly when and where? It just seems to me that I would remember exatly where such an abnormal event occurred. Oh I get it. Its just me.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: Now we are making progress...GHank...now tell us why we should support HRC and not point out her Lies...
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Name:
GHank
Comment: Like someone stated yesterday, this is obviously a pro Obama board, so there's nothing I can say that won't be any use to the discussion. I am passionate over the Democratic party. I liked all 3 candidates...especially Edwards. HRC ain't going anywhere, so what's the use.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: GHank FYI...I am not a Democrat and will not vote for HRC if she gets the nomination...One day you will wake up to The Clintons.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: GHank...Don't lie there and roll over, speak your mind.
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Name:
GHank
Comment: soulmusic101>>>>> Again, my only point was to stick to the issues. To focus on something about who said what against a comedian is really pointless. All this excess passion about HRC is just crazy to me.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: LOL...stick to the issues??? Read your own posts GHank. All you do is cry when somebody says anything bad about HRC. Now you are fronting like you are nonchalant about HRC...Wow!
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Name:
naturalsista
Comment: ditto soulmusic101. i am not a demo either and i will not vote for hillary. do any of you remember the song "the snake" by al wilson. that's gonna be hillary, after she bites those who vote for her she's gonna cackle you knew i was snake when you took (voted) me in.
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Name:
GHank
Comment: soulmusic101>>> I have talked to Hillary a couple of times. Personally, I have no problem with her. I think this board has a problem with any person who happens to like HRC. Obama and HRC have the same views when it comes to healthcare, when it comes to the economy, when it comes to ending the war in Iraq and sending the troops home. So other than a few small issues which I cam live with, either one is alright with me.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: naturalsista...lol...I agree 100%. Is this the same Al Wilson that did "Show And Tell"....
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Name:
naturalsista
Comment: yes it is!
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Name:
indipindintthnkr
Comment: If she can embelish her resume to pad her foreign experience, what else would she lie about to get the Democratic nod? Are those tax returns released yet? Just wondering....
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: GHank...than support HRC, that is your right. Others see and read things that are very suspect about The Clintons and we refuse too be fooled. Not impressed that you spoke with her BTW...lol
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Name:
TGen
Comment: TRTR, to your point, Chris Matthews the other day brought up an interesting question: Would the Clintons prefer Obama or McCain in the White House? Then he laid out the scenario, Clinton trashes BO to the point she gets the nomination or Clinon trashes BO AND praises McCain to the point that BO loses in the general and she has another swipe at the nom come 2012. When it was laid out in those terms, it became apparent to me (even moreso than before)that the Clintons couldn't give a damn about their "party," this is personal, this is about power. There is no way Bill and Hill want this outside "NEGRO" to come and take the their "royal" crown, lol. This explains Billy's cheapshot swipe the other day with the "two [White] candidates love this country if they were running, we wouldn't have all this other [race] stuff." Wow...
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: GHank...If Obama wasn't running, would I vote for HRC...NO...lol
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: GHank care to comment on TGen's above post?
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Name:
indipindintthnkr
Comment: Cont. what this does is question HRC credibility, and trustworthyness. Can she be trusted to keep her word to those workers in Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and Pennsylvannia who've lost jobs and are looking at HRC as the person to save them? Footnote: Ohio leads in the most people collecting foodstamps. One in every 10 people receives them. That number tells me that it ain't just black folks getting them.
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Name:
GHank
Comment: Soulmusic101>>>>Again for the last time, I just point out that HRC gets roasted for things that are minimal. I've never roasted anything that Obama has said. Even on the Jeremiah Wright stuff, you have never seen me post about any of that. I only made the remark of how that got treated with kid gloves and the Feraro comment got hammered. But again, if it felt like i was being sooooo passionate about HRC, it was only trying convince that both supporters needed each other.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Ghank..I don't think there is anything else to discuss on the fact that she lied. Of course, those inclined are going to weigh in on what the lies mean for her as a potential president..those not inclined...will not. This board is known for talking a subject down to the ground...including the F4A. That's why everyone keep coming back. Considering that this is the most important election in our lifetime...people ARE going to comment and not always in a good way. That's life. IMO I believe that the passion against Hillary is so crazy 2 u because of who it's coming from (Democrats..some of whom were for the Clintons at some point) and not Republicans where it's expected. By the same, Clinton supporters are no different and polls suggest more of her supporters would not support Obama than the reverse. You just happen to be on a pro-obama board. If you are pro-choice...go to a anti-abortion board and see the venom/discussion there. If you are a liberal..watch Fox and see how distorted/hateful the coverage is there. This isn't a Obama fanatics problem. It's an american people problem. Hope that puts it into perspective for u.
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Name:
GHank
Comment: MUS & Soulmusic101 and any other Obama supporter>>>>Let me ask you this, Do you see any faults with Obama? If so, what are they? Just curious.....
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Name:
GHank
Comment: soulmusic101>>>>About TGen's post...That's just an opinion that Chris Matthews gave. Anyone can slant something to fit their view.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: GHank, you weren't addressing me, but I just read one of your posts and I MUST have clarification! Did you HONESTLY say the Jeremiah Wright thing was "kid gloves?" An aside, I heard the rest of the sermon the other day, and I was sooo disappointed in myself for having fell for the okey-doke, for having judged this man on 30 seconds of selective tape that has become the cornerstone of FauxNews and a lot of other msm outlets. I'm trying to figure out how you call that modern-day LYNCHING of that pastor "kid gloves." Or did I misread? Just want some clarification. Gracias!
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Name:
katgrrrl
Comment: What's all the fuss about? HRC's a politician, is she not? Snakes, slither and hiss, dogs bark, and polititians lie. What!? By saying "Sinbad is a comedian," is she tryna dismiss him and anything he has to say as a joke? Well, I ain't no better cos I'm doin' the same to her. She's a polician (read: liar). Some get caught and try to harrumph harrumph their way out of it and others are just better liars and/or do a better job of keepin' their skeletons in the closet.
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Name:
ChocolateBrownGal
Comment: GHANK....I think what people are needing to read from you is something other than your repetitive remarks about this being a site for OBAMA supporters and HRC haters and that you will vote 4 BO if HRC does not win (as if that will appease BO supporters and lessen the attacks against your being called to task)...you say the same thing but never discuss what about her makes her a better candidate for our country. For example, if you were to write.."blue collar worker, I relate to her b/c of her humble beginnings, her father was much me and my father and I like her apple pie appearance." We could say 'ok'... Unfortunately BCW's forget that HRC was a strong supporter of NAFTA, altho she seems to have selective memory when in comes to that topic. Or you could say the example of my moms was worked diligently while raising us....thus women relate to her as a working mother & she has appeared to have shattered the glass ceiling that has hindered women for decades." We'd say 'ok...however...HRC is only following in the footsteps of a Mosely Braun, Shirley Chisolm, Barbara jordan and Patricia Harris. Always soaring on the backs of Blacks...so what say you GHANK....speak on it my brother? If I've provided your argument...then i've been satisfied and thank you.
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Name:
GHank
Comment: TGen>>>>Here's the clarification. I thought that what they did Obama was not right. My only thing in comparison to HRC with the Ferraro flap was that Obama can't control what Rev. Wright says as much as HRC can't control what Ferraro says. But people on this board reacted with such vigor against Hillary when Ferraro said her comment. But being that most people on this board are pro-Obama, you would expect that. That's where my "kid gloves" remark was based. Not the general public, but this board.
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: TGEN...I saw Chris Matthews as well. And I was taken aback that Hilary basically endorsed McCain. But she says she's commited to the party. She's commited to her goal of being the first woman president. Nothing more.
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: It will come as a surprise to many people that there are rules in politics. Most of those rules are unwritten and are based on common understandings, acceptable practices, and the best interest of the political party a candidate seeks to lead. One of those rules is this: Do not provide ammunition to the opposition party that can be used to destroy your party’s nominee. This is a hyper-truth where the presidential contest is concerned.
By saying that only she and John McCain are qualified to lead the country, particularly in times of crisis, Hillary Clinton has broken that rule, severely damaged the Democratic candidate who may well be the party’s nominee, and, perhaps most ominously, revealed the unlimited lengths to which she will go to achieve power. She has essentially said that the Democratic party deserves to lose unless it nominates her….
If Mrs. Clinton loses the nomination, her failure will be traced to the date she voted to empower George W. Bush to invade Iraq. That is not the kind of judgment, or wisdom, required by the leader answering the phone in the night. For her now to claim that Senator Obama is not qualified to answer the crisis phone is the height of irony if not chutzpah, and calls into question whether her primary loyalty is to the Democratic party and the nation or to her own ambition.
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Name:
soulmusic101
Comment: So what if peep's like Obama, go to a pro-Clinton Board and be happy..lol
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: Hillary wants to be the first woman president! Nothing more.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: GHank, I say this as someone attempting to be fair and impartial. I think the Ferraro thing was much more egregious (sp?) than the Wright thing. People keep [mistakenly] calling what Wright said "racist." It was NOT. Racism entails believing one race is superior to another. Now it can be argued that some of Wright's rants were "anti-American" (though I prefere anti-American POLICY), but not "racist." Ferraro's comments on the other hand were absolutely, unequivocally racist. She singled out BO to say that this Black man is only where he is because he's Black, his other credentials are thus inferior to anyone else's. That's what she said. No comparison in my view with what Wright said (which if you listen to his sermon, he preached about injustices done to many minorities, not just Blacks, but I digress). Anyway, thanks for the clarification, makes more sense now, lol
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: I've tried to really be as fair minded as I can about Hilary and Obama. Never has there been a race like this before. But, the more I hear Hilary, the more I see how divisive she seems. Recall that she answered the 3:00 a.m. phone call, and said invade a country that most Americans disagree with. But she thinks perhaps we need to re-visit that decision. Are there 'do-overs' in politics?
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: FRIENDS OF THE CLINTONS: 1. James McDougal – Clinton’s convicted Whitewater partner dies of an apparent heart attack while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.
2. Mary Mahoney – A former White House intern was murdered July, 1997, at a Starbucks Coffee shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House. 3. Vince Foster – Former White House counselor and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose Law Firm, died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide. 4. Ron Brown – Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman, reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death, Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the air traffic controller committed suicide. 5. C. Victor Raiser II – Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization, died in a private plane crash in July, 1992. 6. Paul Tulley – Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September, 1992. Described by Clinton as a “dear friend and trusted advisor.” 7. Ed Willey – Clinton fund raiser, found dead November, 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events. 8. Jerry Parks – Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock, gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house. 9. James Bunch – Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas. 10. James Wilson – Was found dead in May, 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: 11. Kathy Ferguson – Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May, 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
12. Bill Shelton – Arkansas State Trooper and fiancé of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancé, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancé.
13. Gandy Baugh – Attorney for Clinton’s friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
14. Florence Martin – Accountant & Subcontractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mean airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.
15. Suzanne Coleman – Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas’ Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
16. Paula Grober – Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death, December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
17. Danny Castolaro – Investigative Reporter, Investigating Mean Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently in the middle of his investigation.
18. Paul Wilcher – Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1890 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington, DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno weeks before his death.
19. Jon Parnell Walker – Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.
20. Barbara Wise – Commerce Department staffer, worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death, unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce. 21. Charles Meissner – Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: 22. Dr. Stanley Heard – Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton’s advisory council, personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother. 23. Barry Seal – Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident. 24. Johnny Lawhorn, Jr. – Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole. 25. Stanley Huggins- Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
26. Hershell Friday – Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.
27. Kevin Ives & Don Henry – Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas Airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, “due to falling asleep on railroad tracks.” Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.
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Name:
Southernbelle
Comment: Okay so she could remember that Sinbad is a comedian (who I doubt that she listens to) but she couldn't remember if someone was shooting at her head. If you say so Billary.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: 1) He takes too long to make a point 2)Incessantly speaks in parables 3)Political novice 4)Lacking knowledge of foreign affairs 5)Too much of a dreamer...there are more but those instantly comes to mind. IMO there is a difference 'tween Wright/Ferraro as it relates to how both candidates handled the comments AND what the comments actually were.
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Name:
SilentJay
Comment: How do you misremember someone SHOOTING at you? That's all I got to say.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: co-sign all of Penelope's posts . . . . . GHank and other clinton supporters, as a life-long independent who does not like politicians, I decided on O-BA-MA!! last August for only one reason: he wants transparent government [the clintons will not release all earmarks, will not release past 8 years of tax returns so that we can understand how they loaned 5 million dollars to themselves to campaign, will not list donors/donated amounts to clinton library and the clinton foundation] . . . . . I worry that the clintons have been fighting Rove-style for their "inevitable" nomination and keep spinning the race card on how they are more electable than O-BA-MA!! . . . . . Carvelle did something beyond the nasty pale: he made a fierce personal attack on a fellow Dem on behalf of the clintons [yes, O-BA-MA!! supporters responded in kind which increases bitterness on both sides] and he said that he does not care whether he and the attackee remain friends [this is not a good thing] - on behalf of your fellow supporters, tell us something that O-BA-MA!! supporters can understand about the clinton tactics noted here, how the clintons could possibly heal the party if they are the candidate and whether the clintons will campaign for Dems or Repubs in the general election if they are not the candidate in face of the fact that they continuously endorse Hillary and McClain
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: There is something not right with Mrs. Clinton. I will not vote for her. I won't vote for McCain either. So, I guess that makes me one of those disenfranchised folks. If I turn up dead after posting that list, then y'all let somebody know that I printed the death list. OK?
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Name:
Southernbelle
Comment: Okay, I gonna help GHank out. What had happended was, a car back fired and it alarmed Billary and she ran for cover. It was an honest misunderstanding. Ya see Sinbad lives in LA so he knows the difference between gunfire and a car back firing. As a result, he didn't run off but Billary she was totally caught off gaurd by the experience. Now here we are many years later with two different sides of the story.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: CHICAGO, March 5 — The Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., senior pastor of the popular Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and spiritual mentor to Senator Barack Obama, thought he knew what he would be doing on Feb. 10, the day of Senator Obama’s presidential announcement.
After all, back in January, Mr. Obama had asked Mr. Wright if he would begin the event by delivering a public invocation.
But Mr. Wright said Mr. Obama called him the night before the Feb. 10 announcement and rescinded the invitation to give the invocation.
“Fifteen minutes before Shabbos I get a call from Barack,” Mr. Wright said in an interview on Monday, recalling that he was at an interfaith conference at the time. “One of his members had talked him into uninviting me,” Mr. Wright said, referring to Mr. Obama’s campaign advisers.
Some black leaders are questioning Mr. Obama’s decision to distance his campaign from Mr. Wright because of the campaign’s apparent fear of criticism over Mr. Wright’s teachings, which some say are overly Afrocentric to the point of excluding whites.
Bill Burton, a spokesman for the Obama campaign, said the campaign disinvited Mr. Wright because it did not want the church to face negative attention. Mr. Wright did however, attend the announcement and prayed with Mr. Obama beforehand.
“Senator Obama is proud of his pastor and his church, but because of the type of attention it was receiving on blogs and conservative talk shows, he decided to avoid having statements and beliefs being used out of context and forcing the entire church to defend itself,” Mr. Burton said.
Instead, Mr. Obama asked Mr. Wright’s successor as pastor at Trinity, the Rev. Otis Moss III, to speak. Mr. Moss declined.
In recent weeks, word of Mr. Obama’s treatment of Mr. Wright has reached black leaders like the Rev. Al Sharpton and given them pause.
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Name:
indipindintthnkr
Comment: This just proves she's ready to lie on day one... I read somewhere that her memoirs also state that she had to escape in the middle of the night from a hotel on the South side of Chicago while getting busy with hubby because Jeremiah Wright was admonishing all 'Typical White Women' to the gates of hell.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: I have not discussed this with Senator Obama in detail, but I can see why callers of mine and other clergymen would be concerned, because the issue is standing by your own pastor,” Mr. Sharpton said.
Mr. Wright’s church, the 8,000-member Trinity United Church of Christ, is considered mainstream — Oprah Winfrey has attended services, and many members are prominent black professionals. But the church is also more Afrocentric and politically active than standard black congregations.
Mr. Wright helped organize the 1995 Million Man March on Washington and along with other United Church of Christ ministers was one of the first black religious leaders to protest apartheid and welcome gay and lesbian worshippers.
Since Mr. Obama made his presidential ambitions clear, conservatives have drawn attention to his close relationship to Mr. Wright and to the church’s emphasis on black empowerment. Tucker Carlson of MSNBC called the precepts “racially exclusive” and “wrong.” Last week, on the Fox News program “Hannity & Colmes,” Erik Rush, a conservative columnist, called the church “quite cultish, quite separatist.”
In Monday’s interview, Mr. Wright expressed disappointment but no surprise that Mr. Obama might try to play down their connection.
“When his enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli” to visit Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, Mr. Wright recalled, “with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.” Mr. Wright added that his trip implied no endorsement of either Louis Farrakhan’s views or Qaddafi’s.
Mr. Wright said that in the phone conversation in which Mr. Obama disinvited him from a role in the announcement, Mr. Obama cited an article in Rolling Stone, “The Radical Roots of Barack Obama.”
According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”
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Name:
Southernbelle
Comment: @ Penelope, damn after reading that list I'm voting Billary. It appears that people end up dead opposing them. Ya'll hear that Clinton spies my vote's for Billary LOL.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: GHank your first post is very creative but if you know I'm a woman why would you . . . nevermind - it ain't that deep. I don't have beef with you either and I also know you can no more explain why billary than my favorite fabulous body can. Curtis Jackson is also under the impression that amerikkka isn't ready for a black man to be president. Go figure!
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Penelope in your first post you asked if billary was trippin' when she told that bald faced lie - look at her real good, I say yes she's trippin' off the potential aroma of power. She's drunk with it!
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: SouthernBelle...LOL! You are wronnnng. But I guess I can see your point. I'm sure other candidates may have similar um 'friends' but its kind of beyond coincidence that all of these people died in an let's say unusual manner. I didn't post the names of the dead Secret Service people. But you can do a google search on "Dead Friends of Clinton"...
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: All in all, I am really put out with her endorsement of McCain. I can't believe she sold out the Democratic party like that. The quote I posted earlier (before the deathlist) is from Gary Hart re Clinton's endorsement of McCain.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: . . . those are too many unexplained deaths.
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Name:
ChocolateBrownGal
Comment: M C Nasty...you sooooo stoopid! *never mind* cryin!
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Name:
kwrob
Comment: So Hillary says "Sinbad is a comedian" like he can't possibly have a serious thought about this issue and politics in general. She's basically insinuating that you can't take his words seriously because he tells jokes for a living. But her comment also contradicts her %*$essment of the trip. If there was any chance of some sniper fire going on while they were landing, people like Sinbad wouldn't even be allowed to be on that kind of trip because of the danger. She herself probably wouldn't have been allowed to go, since she wasn't a politician back then. No president would sen their First Lady on a trip that danegerous, let alone some comedian.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: we frequently hear about faith-based initiatives and I guess that the only faith-based initiatives worthy of recognition are those espoused by right-wing evangelicals . . . . . the Nation of Islam [NOI]has a long-term history and commitment to providing spiritual aid to the incarcerated and offer up positive options to those who have been released from incarceration . . . . . the NOI provides top-notch education and other community services, so, it was appropriately fitting that the Trinity UCC recognize Min. Farrakhan and the NOI with an award of recognition of community services . . . . . . many AAs know that Min. Farrakhan provides more than hate-speech, that he provides inspiration and encouragement for living in a hostile environment . . . . . since coming up close and personal with his own mortality, Min. Farrakhan has actually moderated his hate-speech, but, alas all the media wants to write about him is his hate-speech . . . . . America is so conflicted about itself that its YT lower middle and working classes think that only YT people, in a YT people's vaccum, make the necessary positive changes needed for quality of life issues as AAs clutch at the corners of YT change . . . . . . if the media wanted to, it could be a prime agent of healing by showing how much we are all alike, that we have commonality . . . . . in the meantime, there are folks who thrive on our division [the clintons]
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Name:
B00TANEB00TUS
Comment: Fear in the air, terrorist everywhere.
Unemployment rising fast, I can't afford any gas.
Our kids can't read, they need an education.
And the band played on!
Elected officials whoring (ho-ing),Bush not knowing, delegates switching, Hillary b1tching
Health care in demand, immigration out of hand, suicide, too many bills,
everybody's taking pills. People all over the world are shouting, 'End the war.'
And the band played on...
[Instrumental]
Hey Rak Bama, can ya help us end this drama?.
Sayin'... ball of confusion.
That's what the world is today, hey, hey.
Let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya.
Sayin'... ball of confusion.
That's what the world is today, hey, hey.
Let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya.
Sayin'... ball of confusion.
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: This just confirms that God has a hand in this. She straight out lied...and to make it even worse, she knew she was lying and why???? Anybody getting shot at would remember that shiat like it was yesterday especially if your child is with you...so my take is, if she lied about this, what else will she or has she lied about...no need to worry people...Obama will be our next president. It seems like everytime HRC tries to discredit Obama, it comes back at her 10 fold. What's pizzing me off is, the media is sweeping this shyt under the rug like its no big deal...I just want to hear the beotch explain this lie...so therefore the people in PA and OH, now you see, she is clearly blowing smoke up your azzes and nothing is going to change if you nominate her...OMG...just standing there telling a bold face lie and laughing it off...
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: She didn't just lie I think...She was actually embellishing her resume. She said that if the job was too dangerous, then the first lady was the first choice. If that is the thinking of the Clinton administration at the time, then she really doesn't need to be elected. But let me think this through. Following that same agenda, if a place was to dangerous to have the president fly into, then She would send the "First Man" ... maybe she's on to something here! She get to get back at Bill for all of the stuff he's done in the past. I bet he goes to Darfur as soon as his wife is elected!
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: Gwo on Bootane!
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: Has anyone ever wondered if HRC would pick her husband as her running mate? Wouldn't that be a trip?
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Name:
VeeCee
Comment: Somebody please get BOOT a contract!! LOL; that is funny as hell.... Also, did anyone notice last week how the Clintons are now trying to downplay the situation when Rev. Jeremiah Wright "counseled" Bill during his Monica scandal???? Hypocrites!!!!
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Name:
VeeCee
Comment: And another thing - Hillbilly wouldn't have made that "Sinbad is a comedian" comment if it had been someone like Jay Leno or Jerry Seinfeld instead....bytch...
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Name:
Story2tell
Comment: Dang, that body count list is loooong. I followed your suggestion Penelope, and googled "dead friends of clinton"...one of the sites even suggests that JFK junior was going to possibly make a run for the senate seat HRC now holds, and hence the plane crash that killed him. Wow. I'm gettin' scurred to vote against HRC!! LOL
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Name:
javone77
Comment: Wait...did I miss something? Veecee, did you say that Jeremiah wright counseled Bill through the whole monica lewinsky drama?
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Name:
Kofi
Comment: Boot, You need your own blog. You could put a link to it in your post. You consistently bring humor and insights that really lighten things up. The regulars really appreciate you.
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: Yes, the right Reverend Wright counseled Mr. Clinton during Lewinsky-gate.
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: Story...what is a trip is that all of the circumstances are odd. Its weird. Like 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon. Scary. And to see how many Secret Service people died is a trip too! Them some scary folks. Obama better watch out now.
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Name:
Story2tell
Comment: It's just hard to believe that the media never focused on the Clinton connection to all these deaths.
People are free to support whomever they choose, but I really just cannot understand some folks blind support of HRC. I mean, it has to be BLIND support, because you gotta be blind not to see what she's really about. I don't know what she has to do...personally slap'em across the face and call them the N word? SHE DOES NOT GIVE A SH*T ABOUT YOU. I repeat SHE DOES NOT GIVE A SH*T ABOUT YOU.
And yes I know I just offended some folks but oh well. It is just baffling to me. Baffling.
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Name:
Taurusingr
Comment: I think someone within the Obama camp needs to PUT THE MEDIA on BLAST at their NEXT opportunity!! (debate,press com. WHATEVER!!) Just tell/show the public the other side of THEIR LIES!! Tell the public ( who don't have the sense to do this on their own) to YOUTUBE the WHOLE Wright sermon, Ask why the media DIDN'T find & WOULDN'T
PLAY IT!? NOR call HRC & her MERRYMEN on THEIR LIES & ask why ALL these people are LYING like this....b/c of THEIR OPPOSITION to CHANGE!!! Just put it ALL out their like a BABY could connect the dots!! Then maybe the NEXT time they do this...EVERYONE will KNOW WHY & NOT fall for IT!!
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Name:
javone77
Comment: G'Lawd have mercy. I have seen it all. She sho is keeping that ish quiet! lol It's gonna be 6 degrees of Rev. wright in a minute lol
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Name:
Taurusingr
Comment: See...At 1st I thought...How IDIOTIC to lie about something that could be so EASILY confirmed!!!...But then I realized, if you have ALL the ducks in YOUR row & most of the American people are so EASILY INFLUENCED & UN-OBJECTIVE aaaaaaaaannd RACIST...You can/WILL say ANYTHING YOU WANT & NOT be held RESPONSIBLE for it!!! (gas prices,IRAQ,WMD's, who's OBVIOUSLY a RACIST, Wright's sermon,HRC's CONTRADICTIONS, OBAMA'S COMPETENCE....WHATEVER!!! The REFEREES in this game HAVE TO BE EXPOSED for being the BIAS ENTITIES THEY ARE!!!
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Have any of you read the letter Rev. Wright wrote to the New York Times? or the article written by a white person in support of what the Rev. Wright preached?
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Name:
naturalsista
Comment: check out this link regarding rupert murdoch (foxnews owner) and hillary clinton. for me this explains this station's rabid attack against obama. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/may2006/murd-m10.sht ml
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Name:
naturalsista
Comment: mcnasty please post the links. thanks
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Name:
Jacque
Comment: Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, in a wide-ranging interview today with Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reporters and editors, said she would have left her church if her pastor made the sort of inflammatory remarks Sen. Barack Obama's former pastor made.
"He would not have been my pastor," Clinton said. "You don't choose your family, but you choose what church you want to attend."
Obama's lead in national polls has slipped since clips of the retired Rev. Jeremiah Wright began being played on national news programs. The uproar prompted Obama to give a wide-ranging speech on race in America a week ago. The Clinton campaign has refrained from getting involved in the controversy, but Clinton herself, responding to a question, denounced what she said was "hate speech."
"You know, I spoke out against Don Imus (who was fired from his radio and television shows after making racially insensitive remarks), saying that hate speech was unacceptable in any setting, and I believe that," Clinton said. "I just think you have to speak out against that. You certainly have to do that, if not explicitly, then implicitly by getting up and moving."
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Name:
Jacque
Comment: Clinton's 90-minute interview covered topics from pledged delegates to Iraq.
Among her statements this morning:
On saying last week that she landed under sniper fire during a trip to Bosnia in 1996, when she was first lady:
"I was sleep-deprived, and I misspoke."
• On superdelegates:
"The governor from Tennessee (Phil Bredesen) suggested that there be a convention of superdelegates, and I think that it is an intriguing idea. I have not considered it long enough to have an opinion on it.
On the possibility of Gov. Ed Rendell becoming her running mate:
"It's premature to say that I would have Gov. Rendell, but I have a lot of regard for the governor."
• On Social Security:
"We need to have a bipartisan commission much like President Reagan and Tip O'Neill had in the '80s where they worked together, and we have lived off of those efforts. But we need to do something now. One of the caveats that I would have is that people that are presently on Social Security or about to go on Social Security not be affected."
• On so-called earmarks, which are congressional appropriations to specific institutions:
"I am proud of my earmarks," she said sarcastically. "Part of the reason that I won New York by 67 percent are my earmarks."
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Name:
Jacque
Comment: • On Pakistan:
"... I don't hold much hope for such negotiations between the Taliban and other militants. I don't know exactly what to expect from this new government. I have concerns about Musharraf's policies.
"I have urged President Bush to try to create common ground between Pakistan and Afghanistan."
• On Russia:
"We need to work with Russia as an ally. Russia is investing a lot of money into the Iran nuclear program. That is dangerous to them as well as us."
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Name:
DEEofVA
Comment: The %*$!( went there! Hillary Clinton during an interview with the Pittsburg Gazette criticized Senator Obama for remaining at Trinity. She condemned Wright and his "hate speech." For any negroes out there--I'm speaking to you Tavis Smiley--who have chosen to defend or ignore the deliberate attempts by the Clintons to marginalize Senator Obama as a black candidate and by extension the black community, is this enought for you to open your eyes to the reality that the Clintons don't give a %*$! about black folks, only what we can do for them?
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Name:
Taurusingr
Comment: Ok!...What about a name change!!???, Hillary shall now be called....SILLARY! I LIKE IT!! That shyt FITS like a STRAIGHTJACKET!!! LMAO!!!
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Name:
JFromMO
Comment: I read somewhere that that list was overexaggerated.
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Name:
ChocolateBrownGal
Comment: After alla that...I can't believe GHANK ran away like that SMH.....MUSB guess you were right! JFMO...i read the same thing.
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Name:
Tiedie
Comment: Did anyone see this latest bit on Yahoo regard family ties among the candidates?
Obama has a prolific presidential lineage that features Democrats and Republicans. His distant cousins include President George W. Bush and his father, George H.W. Bush, Gerald Ford, Lyndon Johnson, Harry S. Truman and James Madison. Other Obama cousins include Vice President Dick Cheney, British Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill and Civil War General Robert E. Lee.
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Name:
Tiedie
Comment: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080325/ap_on_el_pr/candid ates_genealogy
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Hillary is a piece of work. Now she's saying that pledged delegates aren't really "pledged" and they can vote for whomever they want like superdelegates.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: CNN Ticker- "Hillary Clinton has again raised the prospect that "pledged" delegates — those awarded based on election results — might still be considered up for grabs. "And also remember that pledged delegates in most states are not pledged,” she told the editorial board of the Philadelphia Daily News Monday. “You know there is no requirement that anybody vote for anybody. They're just like superdelegates." On March 5, Clinton adviser Harold Ickes brought up the fact that pledged delegates are not legally bound to vote for the candidate they're pledged to – an idea that drew sharp criticism from supporters of rival Barack Obama. The Clinton campaign said that they had not been planning to try to actively convince the Illinois senator's pledged delegates to switch sides, and would not do so in the future – but on a conference call with reporters Tuesday, Ickes defended Clinton’s Monday remarks and repeated his view that pledged delegates were free to switch their allegiance at any time. “I think what Mrs. Clinton was trying to make clear was that no delegate is required by party rules to vote for the candidate for which they're pledged,” said Ickes. “I mean obviously circumstances can change, and people's minds can change about the viability of a particular candidate and that's permitted now under our rules ever since the 1980 convention.” He added that although the rules permitted them to campaign pledged delegates to switch sides, they had not engaged in such an effort. Two weeks ago, Clinton herself told Newsweek that "There are elected delegates, caucus delegates and superdelegates, all for different reasons, and they're all equal in their ability to cast their vote for whomever they choose. Even elected and caucus delegates are not required to stay with whomever they are pledged to."
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Name:
VeeCee
Comment: To Taurus - I was calling her Hillbilly but Sillary sounds like a good fit for her (LMAO). (She's still a bytch, though...)
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: A white author's view of Rev. Wright's speech
March 18, 2008
Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama and the Unacceptability of Truth
Of National Lies and Racial America
By TIM WISE
For most white folks, indignation just doesn't wear well. Once
affected or conjured up, it reminds one of a pudgy man, wearing a
tie that may well have fit him when he was fifty pounds lighter, but
which now cuts off somewhere above his navel and makes him look like
an idiot.
Indignation doesn't work for most whites, because having remained
sanguine about, silent during, indeed often supportive of so much
injustice over the years in this country--the theft of native land
and genocide of indigenous persons, and the enslavement of Africans
being only two of the best examples--we are just a bit late to get
into the game of moral rectitude. And once we enter it, our efforts
at righteousness tend to fail the test of sincerity.
But here we are, in 2008, fuming at the words of Pastor Jeremiah
Wright, of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago--occasional ly
Barack Obama's pastor, and the man whom Obama credits with having
brought him to Christianity- -for merely reminding us of those evils
about which we have remained so quiet, so dismissive, so
unconcerned. It is not the crime that bothers us, but the
remembrance of it, the unwillingness to let it go--these last words
being the first ones uttered by most whites it seems whenever
anyone, least of all an "angry black man" like Jeremiah Wright,
foists upon us the bill of particulars for several centuries of
white supremacy.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: But our collective indignation, no matter how loudly we announce it,
cannot drown out the truth. And as much as white America may not be
able to hear it (and as much as politics may require Obama to
condemn it) let us be clear, Jeremiah Wright fundamentally told the
truth.
Oh I know that for some such a comment will seem shocking. After
all, didn't he say that America "got what it deserved" on 9/11? And
didn't he say that black people should be singing "God Damn America"
because of its treatment of the African American community
throughout the years?
Well actually, no he didn't.
Wright said not that the attacks of September 11th were justified,
but that they were, in effect, predictable. Deploying the imagery of
chickens coming home to roost is not to give thanks for the return
of the poultry or to endorse such feathered homecoming as a positive
good; rather, it is merely to note two things: first, that what goes
around, indeed, comes around--a notion with longstanding theological
grounding--and secondly, that the U.S. has indeed engaged in more
than enough violence against innocent p eople to make it just a tad
bit hypocritical for us to then evince shock and outrage about an
attack on ourselves, as if the latter were unprecedented.
He noted that we killed far more people, far more innocent civilians
in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than were killed on 9/11 and "never batted
an eye." That this statement is true is inarguable, at least amongst
sane people. He is correct on the math, he is correct on the
innocence of the dead (neither city was a military target), and he
is most definitely correct on the lack of remorse or even self-doubt
about the act: sixty-plus years later most Americans still believe
those attacks were justified, that they were needed to end the war
and "save American lives."
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: But not only does such a calculus suggest that American lives are
inherently worth more than the lives of Japanese civilians (or, one
supposes, Vietnamese, Iraqi or Afghan civilians too), but it also
ignores the long-declassified documents, and President Truman's own
war diaries, all of which indicate clearly that Japan had already
signaled its desire to end the war, and that we knew they were going
to surrender, even without the dropping of atomic weapons. The
conclusion to which these truths then attest is simple, both in its
basic veracity and it monstrousness: namely, that in those places we
committed premeditated and deliberate mass murder, with no
justification whatsoever; and yet for saying that I will receive
more hate mail, more hostility, more dismissive and contemptuous
responses than will those who suggest that no body count is too high
when we're the ones doing the killing. Jeremiah Wright becomes a
pariah, because, you see, we much prefer the logic of George Bush
the First, who once said that as President he would "never apologize
for the United States of America . I don't care what the facts are."
And Wright didn't say blacks should be singing "God Damn America."
He was suggesting that blacks owe little moral allegiance to a
nation that has treated so many of them for so long as animals, as
persons undeserving of dignity and respect, and which even now locks
up hundreds of thousands of non-violent offenders (especially for
drug possession), even while whites who do the same crimes (and
according to the data, when it comes to drugs, more often in fact),
are walking around free. His reference to God in that sermon was
more about what God will do to such a nation, than it was about what
should or shouldn't happen. It was a comment derived from, and fully
in keeping with, the black prophetic tradition, and although one can
surely disagree with the theology (I do, actually, and don't believe
that any God either blesses or condemns nation states for their
actions), the statement itself was no call for blacks to turn on
America .. If anything, it was a demand that America earn the
respect of black people, something the evidence and history suggests
it has yet to do.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Finally, although one can certainly disagree with Wright about his
suggestion that the government created AIDS to get rid of black
folks--and I do, for instance--it is worth pointing out that Wright
isn't the only one who has said this. In fact, none other than Bill
Cosby (oh yes, that Bill Cosby, the one white folks love because of
his recent moral crusade against the black poor) proffered his
belief in the very same thing back in the early '90s in an interview
on CNN, when he said that AIDS may well have been created to get rid
of people whom the government deemed "undesirable" including gays
and racial minorities.
So that's the truth of the matter: Wright made one comment that is
highly arguable, but which has also been voiced by white America's
favorite black man, another that was horrib ly misinterpreted and
stripped of all context, and then another that was demonstrably
accurate. And for this, he is pilloried and made into a virtual
enemy of the state; for this, Barack Obama may lose the support of
just enough white folks to cost him the Democratic nomination,
and/or the Presidency; all of it, because Jeremiah Wright, unlike
most preachers opted for truth. If he had been one of
those "prosperity ministers" who says Jesus wants nothing so much as
for you to be rich, like Joel Osteen, that would have been fine. Had
he been a retread bigot like Falwell was, or Pat Robertson is, he
might have been criticized, but he would have remained in good
standing and surely not have damaged a Presidential candidate in
this way. But unlike Osteen, and Falwell, and Robertson, Jeremiah
Wright refused to feed his parishioners lies..
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: What Jeremiah Wright knows, and told his flock--though make no
mistake, they already kn ew it--is that 9/11 was neither the first,
nor worst act of terrorism on American soil. The history of this
nation for folks of color, was for generations, nothing less than an
intergenerational hate crime, one in which 9/11s were woven into the
fabric of everyday life: hundreds of thousands of the enslaved who
died from the conditions of their bondage; thousands more who were
lynched (as many as 10,000 in the first few years after the Civil
War, according to testimony in the Congressional Record at the
time); millions of indigenous persons wiped off the face of the
Earth. No, to some, the horror of 9/11 was not new. To some it was
not on that day that "everything changed." To some, everything
changed four hundred years ago, when that first ship landed at what
would become Jamestown . To some, everything changed when their
ancestors were forced into the hulls of slave ships at Goree Island
and brought to a strange land as chat tel. To some, everything
changed when they were run out of Northern Mexico, only to watch it
become the Southwest United States, thanks to a war of annihilation
initiated by the U.S. government. To some, being on the receiving
end of terrorism has been a way of life. Until recently it was
absolutely normal in fact.
But white folks have a hard time hearing these simple truths. We
find it almost impossible to listen to an alternative version of
reality. Indeed, what seems to bother white people more than
anything, whether in the recent episode, or at any other time, is
being confronted with the recognition that black people do not, by
and large, see the world like we do; that black people, by and
large, do not view America as white people view it. We are, in fact,
shocked that this should be so, having come to believe, apparently,
that the falsehoods to which we cling like a kidney patient clings
to a dialysis machine, a re equally shared by our darker-skinned
compatriots.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: This is what James Baldwin was talking about in his classic 1972
work, No Name in the Street, wherein he noted:
"White children, in the main, and whether they are rich or poor,
grow up with a grasp of reality so feeble that they can very
accurately be described as deluded--about themselves and the world
they live in. White people have managed to get through their entire
lifetimes in this euphoric state, but black people have not been so
lucky: a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for
example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving
maniac."
And so we were shocked in 1987, when Supreme Court Justice Thurgood
Marshall declined to celebrate the bicentennial of the Constitution,
because, as he noted, most of that history had been one of overt
racism and injustice, and to his way of thinking, the only history
worth celebrating had been that of the past three or four decades.
We were shocked to learn that black people actually believed that a
white cop who was a documented racist might frame a black man; and
we're shocked to learn that lots of black folks still perceive the
U.S. as a racist nation--we're literally stunned that people who say
they experience discrimination regularly (and who have the social
science research to back them up) actually think that those
experiences and that data might actually say something about the
nation in which they reside. Imagine.
Whites are easily shocked by what we see and hear from Pastor Wright
and Trinity Church , because what we see and hear so thoroughly
challenges our understanding of who we are as a nation.. But black
people have never, for the most part, believed in the imagery of
the "shining city on a hill," for they have never had the option of
looking at their nation and ignoring the mountain-siz ed warts still
dotting its face when it comes to race. Black people do not, in the
main, get misty eyed at the sight of the flag the way white people
do--and this is true even for millions of black veterans--for they
understand that the nation for whom that flag waves is still not
fully committed to their own equality. They have a harder time
singing those tunes that white people seem so eager to belt out,
like "God Bless America," for they know that whites sang those words
loudly and proudly even as they were enforcing Jim Crow segregation,
rioting against blacks who dared move into previously white
neighborhoods, throwing rocks at Dr. King and then cheering, as so
many did, when they heard the news that he had been %*$assinated.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Whites refuse to remember (or perhaps have never learned) that which
black folks cannot afford to forget. I've seen white people stunned
to the point of paralysis when they learn the truth about lynchings
in this country--when they discover that such events were not just a
couple of good old boys with a truck and a rope hauling some black
guy out to the tree, hanging him, and letting him swing there. They
were never told the truth: that lynchings were often community
events, advertised in papers as "Negro Barbecues," involving
hundreds or even thousands of whites, who would join in the fun, eat
chicken salad and drink sweet tea, all while the black victims of
their depravity were being hung, then shot, then burned, and then
having their body parts cut off, to be handed out to onlookers. They
are stunned to learn that postcards of the events were traded as
souvenirs, and that very few whites, including members of their own
families did or said anything to stop it.
Rather than knowing about and confronting the ugliness of our past,
whites take steps to excise the less flattering aspects of our
history so that we need not be bothered with them. So, in Tulsa,
Oklahoma, for example, site of an orgy of violence against the black
community in 1921, city officials literally went into the town
library and removed all reference to the mass killings in the
Greenwood district from the papers with a razor blade--an excising
of truth and an %*$ault on memory that would remain unchanged for
over seventy years.
Most white people desire, or perhaps even require the propagation of
lies when it comes to our history. Surely we prefer the lies to
anything resembling, even remotely, the truth. Our version of
history, of our national past, simply cannot allow for the intrusion
of fact into a worldview so thoroughly identified with fiction. But
that white version of America is not only extraordinarily
incomplete, in that it so favors the white experience to the
exclusion of others; it is more than that; it is actually a slap in
the face to people of color, a re-injury, a reminder that they are
essentially irrelevant, their concerns trivial, their lives unworthy
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: of being taken seriously. In that sense, and what few if any white
Americans appear capable of grasping at present, is that "Leave it
Beaver" and "Father Knows Best," portray an America so divorced from
the reality of the times in which they were produced, as to raise
serious questions about the sanity of those who found them so
moving, so accurate, so real. These iconographic representations of
life in the U.S. are worse than selective, worse than false, they
are %*$aults to the humanity and memory of black people, who were
being savagely oppressed even as June Cleaver did housework in heels
and laughed about the hilarious hijinks of Beaver and Larry Mondello.
These portraits of America are certifiable evidence of how
disconnected white folks were--and to the extent we still love them
and view them as repre sentations of the "good old days" to which we
wish we could return, still are--from those men and women of color
with whom we have long shared a nation. Just two months
before "Leave it to Beaver" debuted, proposed civil rights
legislation was killed thanks to Strom Thurmond's 24-hour filibuster
speech on the floor of the U.S. Senate. One month prior, Arkansas
Governor Orville Faubus called out the National Guard to block black
students from entering Little Rock Central High; and nine days
before America was introduced to the Cleavers, and the comforting
image of national life they represented, those black students were
finally allowed to enter, amid the screams of enraged, unhinged,
viciously bigoted white people, who saw nothing wrong with calling
children niggers in front of cameras. That was America of the 1950s:
not the sanitized version into which so many escape thanks to the
miracle of syndication, which merely allows w hite people to relive a
lie, year after year after year.
No, it is not the pastor who distorts history; Nick at Nite and your
teenager's textbooks do that. It is not he who casts aspersions
upon "this great country" as Barack Obama put it in his public
denunciations of him; it is the historic leadership of the nation
that has cast aspersions upon it; it is they who have cheapened it,
who have made gaudy and vile the promise of American democracy by
defiling it with lies. They engage in a patriotism that is
pathological in its implications, that asks of those who adhere to
it not merely a love of country but the turning of one's nation into
an idol to be worshipped, it not literally, then at least in terms
of consequence.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: It is they--the flag-lapel-pin wearing leaders of this land--who
bring shame to the country with their nonsensical suggestions that
we are always noble in warfare, always well-intended, and althoug h
we occasionally make mistakes, we are never the ones to blame for
anything. Nothing that happens to us has anything to do with us at
all. It is always about them. They are evil, crazy, fanatical, hate
our freedoms, and are jealous of our prosperity. When individuals
prattle on in this manner we diagnose them as narcissistic, as
deluded. When nations do it--when our nation does--we celebrate it
as though it were the very model of rational and informed
citizenship.
So what can we say about a nation that values lies more than it
loves truth? A place where adherence to sincerely believed and
internalized fictions allows one to rise to the highest offices in
the land, and to earn the respect of millions, while a willingness
to challenge those fictions and offer a more accurate counter-
narrative earns one nothing but contempt, derision, indeed outright
hatred? What we can say is that such a place is signing its own
de ath warrant. What we can say is that such a place is missing the
only and last opportunity it may ever have to make things right, to
live up to its professed ideals. What we can say is that such a
place can never move forward, because we have yet to fully address
and come to terms with that which lay behind.
What can we say about a nation where white preachers can lie every
week from their pulpits without so much as having to worry that
their lies might be noticed by the shiny white faces in their pews,
while black preachers who tell one after another essential truth are
demonized, not only for the stridency of their tone--which needless
to say scares white folks, who have long preferred a style of praise
and worship resembling nothing so much as a coma--but for merely
calling bullshit on those whose lies are swallowed whole?
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: And oh yes, I said it: white preachers lie. In fact, they lie with a
skill, fluidity, and prec ision unparalleled in the history of either
preaching or lying, both of which histories stretch back a ways and
have often overlapped. They lie every Sunday, as they talk about a
Savior they have chosen to represent dishonestly as a white man, in
every picture to be found of him in their tabernacles, every
children's story book in their Sunday Schools, every Christmas card
they'll send to relatives and friends this December. But to lie
about Jesus, about the one they consider God--to bear false witness
as to who this man was and what he looked like--is no cause for
concern.
Nor is it a problem for these preachers to teach and preach that
those who don't believe as they believe are going to hell. Despite
the fact that such a belief casts aspersions upon God that are so
profound as to defy belief--after all, they imply that God is so
fundamentally evil that he would burn non-believers in a lake of
eternal fire--many of t he white folks who now condemn Jeremiah
Wright welcome that theology of hate. Indeed, back when President
Bush was the Governor of Texas, he endorsed this kind of thinking,
responding to a question about whether Jews were going to go to
hell, by saying that unless one accepted Jesus as one's personal
savior, the Bible made it pretty clear that indeed, hell was where
you'd be heading.
So you can curse God in this way--and to imply such hate on God's
part is surely to curse him--and in effect, curse those who aren't
Christians, and no one says anything. That isn't considered bigoted.
That isn't considered beyond the pale of polite society. One is not
disqualified from becoming President in the minds of millions
because they go to a church that says that %*$! every single week,
or because they believe it themselves. And millions do believe it,
and see nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: So white folks are mad at Jeremia h Wright because he challenges
their views about their country. Meanwhile, those same white folks,
and their ministers and priests, every week put forth a false image
of the God Jeremiah Wright serves, and yet it is whites who feel we
have the right to be offended.
Pardon me, but something is wrong here, and whatever it is, is not
to be found at Trinity United Church of Christ.
Tim Wise is the author of: White Like Me: Reflections on Race from a
Privileged Son (Soft Skull Press, 2005), and Affirmative Action:
Racial Preference in Black and White (Routledge: 2005). He can be
reached at: timjwise@msn. com
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Name:
Afordlove
Comment: Hillary and Bill has been lying about Blacks for a long time and to the Media as well Remember Ron Brown.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Sorry about the length of this article, Naturalsista I didn't have the link, just the article - I thought it was worth the read. The letter is not as long but I have taken more space than I intended to and if you want it my e-mail addy is debijames2003@yahoo.com. I'll be glad to send it - both are really good reads.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: >Tiedie, I'm not sure that his family line is necessarily a good thing. All it does is help confirm what many of us already know, political power is concentrated within a handful of family.
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Name:
naturalsista
Comment: thanks mcnasty. i have read tim wise before and i'm sure i can find it now that i know it his article. i want to ask the board was it just me or did anybody else really take a look at hillary's 3 a.m. call in the night ad? when i first saw it i took issue with it not because of what was said but what it implied. as the images are flashed of the mother looking in on the sleeping children i noticed all those in the ad did not look me or my children and to me that spoke volumes. i thought maybe i didn't see it correctly and viewed it again and again but came to the same conclusion. needless to say it didn't have quite the impact hillary and camp thought it would because i rank that ad up there with the willie horton ad which played to racial fears.
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Name:
SilentJay
Comment: No you're right naturalsista, the commerical implied that worst thing that could happen to white America is to have a black man as president and that something terrible would befall their children if Obamma was in charge.
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Name:
CalyQT
Comment: I noticed also that the children were of yt or mexican decent. She was sounding the alarm reaching out to the mexican's voting in TX.
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Name:
ladybyrd
Comment: I love when the little girl sleeping in the commercial, went on The Today Show and admitted that she is a Obama supporter and is currently working with his campaign. Someone should have checked this out.
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Name:
mamamay
Comment: Thanks for the info. I am an old lady but, I am glad Sinbad and sheryl crown were still around to refute this Hil's misspoke,(lie)re Bosnia. One would have thought Bil was up to no good with the Ins folks to send his only child and his wife into danger. Wow I knew this 60yr old wrinkling woman was up to no good long before Super Tuesday. Hil's new lie is that Given all that's been heard, if she were Obama she would have left Rev Wright's church. Well she's no Obama, and if Hil heard the full sermon, she would not want Obama to denounce his church home either. Well maybe she doesht have a church home to denounce, she certainly continued in the WH and NYH
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