Sat, Nov 21, 2009
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Name:
TRTR
Comment: This is really sad whether he died from natural causes or something else. This is also another reason why many of us have to think twice about bringing the state into custody issues. Unfortunately, too often they want to see Black men behind bars. What can anyone do for their kids behind bars -- and then with a prison record. We really have to get our stuff together as Black folks. Men must take care of their children, but women must also choose their partners more carefully. Sometimes if a child's parent (mother or father) is spending quality time with their kids, that should and sometimes must be the main factor -- and not money. Being stuck in jail whether it's for a day, a few weeks or more than a year usually creates more problems than not. And then if the parent dies in there, that's guilt and regret for a lifetime -- and then what happens to the kids.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: I hear you TRTR but laws were created because man keeps crossing the line. Man started out with ONE law...don't eat THAT fruit...then we got TEN and the rest is history and laws keeps piling up. What the law can never do is legislate what is in someone's heart and unfortunately the government has become surrogate fathers for way too many. While it may be inconceiveable to consider how his child support bill got that high, it really isn't. Evidently Sean had no real income because child support payments come before anything owed to the IRS. The IRS didn't jail him...child support did. Bottom line, two parents lost their son and three children lost their father. It is very easy to NOT get pregnant if you don't want to. If a man (or woman) isn't showing responsibility -- NOT potential -- but responsibility before making a baby, trust me it will not change after the child get's here. May God have mercy on Sean and the mother of his children's soul.
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Name:
Kulchaman
Comment: i totally agree, now that he's gone the bill will still go unpaid because the state was involved with family issues & i do not know what type of compromise he worked to support the kids or work towards the balance if he was in poor health. The child support need to be reconstructed anyways, I know their are some fathers that have responsibilities some honor it & some just don't care if kids are uncared for & its not easy on those single moms....my love goes out to the Levert family, very sad to hear this especially after Gerald passed so sudden in Nov. 2006
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Name:
blaquebaby
Comment: May God keep the Levert family give them peace and understanding!
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Good posts, good points! I too think if a man is active in a child's life but doesn't have the money for monthly support - let that child have a relationship with their father and give him a schedule to babysit while you go to school (see, no time in there to be rollin' around makin' more!) and I also agree that it's time for black folks to handle our own family business and keep the system out of it. That is the same system that is standing behind those that have targets on a black man's back and since they get more than $3,000 per month per prisoner and a huge tax break AND state funds (whether the man is from that state or not) there is more incentive to take his life for some coins than to leave him free so he has more options/possibilities! This story is sad on too many levels - the first being that I believe it was preventable. The second is the fact that black men will not go to the doctor. I'm telling you there is no worse degradation than a woman goes through and we see the doctor at least every six months. Between that damn mammogram machine and them funky as.s stirrups - Black men go to the doctor - it's about health, knowledge and longevity and it's bigger than just you. Go for the ones you would leave behind because you think you feel fine.
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: I can't imagine the pain of losing two children suddenly in less than two years. My condolences to the Levert family.
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: I'm sadden by this death for a lot of reasons, but I don't want to add to anyone's pain at a time like this. Its important for us to remember that our behavior does not just effect us individually, but those around us as well.
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Name:
BlkATLTop
Comment: If you are a single parent, how could you NOT bring the state into this when you're owed over $85,000 and there are 3 children with financial needs? It's $85,000, not $850.00 I can't even imagine trying to pay that off. Spending quality time with the kids is a good thing, but at the end of the day there are other needs that have to be met.
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: --->BlkATLTop most people feel that it's the woman's fault anyway for being a single mother so they figure she could handle the monetary needs part and the man could just come see his kids and not pay a dime.....that is the excepted mentality.....i know time is important and i wish they could find another alternative instead of putting the man in jail but kids need money to take care of them as well.
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Name:
RSmi
Comment: @TRTR
WELL SAID.
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Name:
6footah
Comment: I feel that jail is and should be a last resort for situations like this. I would agree with you TRTR (and supporters), but they aren't throwing people in jail for almost two years over a couple of missed payments. This sounds like some delinquent-ness (yes, I made it up). We do need to rally behind our black men, but that rally needs to include accountability. Most single mothers are being accountable for their choice of pre-marital sex...
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: That's straight bullshat and it's too bad YOU think that way. There is no real point to putting a man in jail in lieu of any dollar amount of support. As a female when you reproduce outside marriage or a committed relationship you run the risk of supporting the kid alone which is why it is imperative for any woman to be careful and understand just what Teigh said in her post - you know he's irresponsible or whatever and you get pregnant anyway. Sure it takes more than one income and oh hell yes a man should be financially responsible for any child he fathers but I live in the real world where black men lose jobs quicker than a black woman and in none of these posts did it say it was alright across the board for him to only come play with the kid. You people take things too far and too wrong and I'd like to believe it is a lack of reading comprehension but some of it is bitter single mother syndrome and that's too bad too!
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Name:
Southernbelle
Comment: May God Bless and keep his family. RIP brother Sean. Now you and Gerald can make beautiful music in the afterlife.
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Name:
Jacque
Comment: Sean Levert was restrained at the jail before his death.
Posted by Donna J. Miller March 31, 2008 16:52PM.
UPDATED:
Sean Levert had been acting strangely at the Cuyahoga County Jail before he died, Warden Kevin McDonough said in a news release.
Levert was at the jail for five days, living among the "general population" there.
He then displayed "bizarre behavior" and was put in an observation cell Sunday night. He began shouting and pounding on the cell door, so guards put him in a restraint chair, "without resistance and for his own protection," McDonough said.
Levert's wrists were strapped to the chair and his feet were shackled to the floor. About 20 minutes later, he appeared "distressed" and was taken to the hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
The Sheriff's Office and County Coroner are investigating.
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Name:
dcdouglass01
Comment: Agree with several comments that Sean Levert being in jail wasn't going to make that $85,000 appear. And generally speaking, with jail time on one's record, trying to make money becomes even more difficult. So jail, IMO, is a very silly and counterproductive approach to trying to get child support payments paid. Garnish him out the ying yang, but jail does nothing towards getting back child support paid. And suppose he had served the 22 months. Would he have still owed the money?
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Name:
flytetime
Comment: I'm a single mom but I'm single because my marriage, which produced our kids, didn't work. My ex-husband is not as diligent as he should be with child support but he does help in other ways so sometimes I cut him a little slack because he has helped with babysitting when I've had to work or go out of town on business or fixed things for me. When we separated he asked me not to go through the court system with child support. I accepted his word but I can't say that I haven't regretted not going through the courts. As someone said, kids have financial needs and no amount of "quality time" will pay for shoes, clothes and food.
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Name:
MsBenny
Comment: Every single post makes sense. Women should be more careful in chosing who we lay down with to make a baby with and it's true, if the man is behind bars how is the back child support going to get paid? All I can really say is I really feel sympathy (not empathy) but sympathy for the parents of Gerald and Sean Levert. May they rest in peace.
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Name:
Teigh
Comment: Even if he were restrained, and based on what was posted it was minimal ..it should not have taken him to be jailed to deal with the reality of what he created although the reality of being jailed is what more than likely caused the panic. Again, the court is a system of last resorts and unfortunately used more times than not as retailiation. I'm not a parent so I can't speak to being one, but I am an aunt and a godparent and I put out just as much energy, time and finances into shaping those little lives... but one thing I never forgot is what my grandfather told me. He said men ain't no good but women ain't no good either. Children need both parents so don't have any children until you can do that with a man who is gonna be there. So there is no disrepancy as "Queen" McNasty referenced I am a woman and I feel like this: If you have one child out of wedlock (or even married)and it don't work out ok mistakes happen. But when you start getting to two & three and different daddies...sorry I don't have too much sympathy for yah. Far too many of us are having children without any regard or concern about how they will be cared for until after they get here. Garnish a check....please Sean ain't have no job because if he did his bill would not have been that high. Child support payments come before taxes. I'm sure this woman had nothing to do with getting Sean Levert arrested...once the system is involved you can't say never mind but I seriously said a prayer for her yesterday because I can't imagine that this was the outcome she expected. It's just sad all around. And I have mad respect for Eddie Levert and I don;t feel or think it was or is his problem but to say I didn;t know? $85G is arrears and bru ai'nt got no job... come on people!
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Name:
DOne
Comment: I have yet to read anything about the specific circumstances in which he owed the money, just that he was behind. You can just take the amount and make a judgement, you have to know the details. In some states, its takes a while to get a court ordered decrease so if someone's income signicantly drops by the time he or she is able to get an adjustment, they are already behind on payments and sometimes they never catch up. Hell, it some states, a woman can wait years to even tell a man that the child is his and then turn around and depend back child support going back to day 1. ...Flytetime, we're kinda in the some boat, just reversed. I have the kids and my ex and I don't have a formal agreement, but she does help out a lot. In fact she buys most of the kids clothing, which is a relief for me because frankly I really have no desire to take two girls shopping. the time she spends with them, especially when "woman" issues comes up is invaluable. As expenses come up we discuss them. Another problem i have is that in some states they want to take into account the total household income of the father, so if he remarries they want to count his wife's income, but they don't do the same for the custodial parent if she remarries. Last, I also think more fathers should sue for custody. My father had one outside child when he married my mom. When my sister's mother fell on hard times, my father basically said I can't support both households so she needs to come live with me. That's how my older sister came to live with us.
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Name:
rayne
Comment: Unfortunately this did not turn out the way anyone planned; however, I believed that some form of community service would have helped instead of sending him to jail. Maybe someone can advocate in trying to change the way sentencings are handed down regarding child support.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: McNasty - Babysit?! How do you babysit your own child? LOL My sister almost cussed her ex-husband out one time we she told him she wanted to plan a weekend spa trip with the girls and he said he didn't know if he'd be able to "babysit" the kids that weekend. She said "I wasn't asking you to babysit fool. These are your kids. I'm telling you to take care of them like I do for once." It was too funny.
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: -->mcnasty i don't know if you are directing your post at me or not but if you READ what i wrote i said that they should find another solution than putting the man in jail.....and you proved my point in saying that the woman needs to be careful but apparently the man doesn't because if he knows he doesn't want to pay child support then he needs to be careful not to make any kids as well.....the thing is that most women accept the fact that they are single mothers and handle their business so now it's time for some of these men to do the same thing so they won't end up in jail....and i'm a married woman so i'm not a bitter single mother.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: Angel-my sentiments exactly! There are several issues here that are being lumped together. We as the general public do not know the details, some things sound strange and people have been known to die in restraints, so that is something that should definitely be investigated. Health plays a factor as well, when you are on drugs, taking drugs at random times, have high blood pressure, these are all separate issues as well. But owing child support-back child support has nothing to do with this man's death. Men and women have to take responsibility for their own actions when it comes to having children. This is an entirely separate subject and really is borderline disrespectful to discuss on the cusp of this man's death. I will say this to some of the previous posts, penalties including jail/prison, exist for a reason and the system is definitely faulty but that does NOT excuse a MAN or woman from taking care of their kids. Time don't feed a child. "Baby-sitting" don't clothe a child. Any parent that knows they have a situation with the ex-lover/spouse, needs to show due diligence in handling the matter right away. Stay active with the court process, find advocates and communicate with the court when the finances change. But STOP IT and enough with making excuses for black men who need to handle their own shyt.
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Name:
temo67
Comment: Let's continue to keep the family in prayer.child support,jail time,and whatever do not have anything to do with this issue.DEATH!!Anyone that have anything negative to sa about him or the family can go to HELL. God do not like ugly. I bet some of you all owe child support,mortgage,credit cards,old fines.Look at the man in the mirror.
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Name:
blackdragon
Comment: Rest in peace, Sean Levert.
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Name:
MER82
Comment: The following comments are not directed in any way shape or form to the Levert family, but to all those who commented thus far. That is why our community is so FUKKED up, always whining and crying but what the fukk are we doing? Take action, if you do everything in your power to make something right, then you know its out of your hands, but when you don't show up in court, don't obtain counsel, don't advocate, don't boycott, but KEEP SPENDING, KEEP having multiple kids with multiple baby mamas or daddys, keep losing jobs, then YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for whatever comes out of that. You already know the system is stacked AGAINST US so DO YOUR PART to keep that stack leaning in the opposite direction. STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR poor behavior especially on the part of black men.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: I disagree with some of you. Some are saying it doesn't help that he goes to jail cause he can't pay the child support. HELLO! He wasn't paying when he was out of JAIL!!! He knew he owe long before he was placed in jail. Infact they said it had been over a year. If you don't know, you should know that you can go to jail because you are the not supporting the child you created. These laws are to protect the children. By having a consequences for not doing for the child is to force you to keep working. I think some of you are trying justify something after the fact. So typical of black people... [at the funeral of a burgular who gets killed] "Tyrone was such a good man. He was loving, caring and responsible man." [But the fool was convicted of breaking into a home and got shot to death.] How is that a good person? Some people just can't face the truth.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Angel I call it babysitting cause if they bothered to get to know each other before they reproduced they might not have had any kids but there are so many cases where they were both satisfying a need, no relationship and since he is not paying and is of a similar mentality (sometimes) as the kids - yeah, babysitting.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Mas90 you can't get blood out of a turnip.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: The best alternative would have been to require him to report to jail every evening after looking for or working a real job during the day. Of course that doesn't help a job record which ultimately will spit up the fact that he does have a record. Bottom line, no point in making bad matters worse. Some states have work crews that go out every day from the jail house - why couldn't that be an alternative? It's not like Ohio and Cleveland specifically couldn't use the help!
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: --->mas90 i may be going crazy here but i actually agree with everything you posted...(and you know we never agree on anything)
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Name:
Winn30344
Comment: I can't imagine the pain the Levert family is feeling. My condolences to family and friends of Sean Levert. May God be with them in their grief!!
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: McNasty... you can't get blood out of your own veins. Dead weight!
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: --->mcnasty why is it that when you're talking about the man you have all these excuses but when you talk about the woman she should known better and be more careful? what is this resentment you have against women? it doesn't surprise me because a lot of black women will talk about women but have more excuses than a n*gga going to jail for the men.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: Mcnasty... part-time jail... i don't think so. Makes no sense. Either you are in jail or not. Since you care for deadbeat dads so much then why don't yo fork up the money and pay off their bill then. Better yet tell all mothers to just suck it up and live off what you make alone and live the father alone.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: correction: live = leave the father alone.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: Whynotme.... yeah that is odd. Kind of scarey. :-)
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Name:
kreemykarmell
Comment: everyone one here is speculating. First, let me say that most child support payments that aren't paid don't affect single women who had children out of wedlock, as many of you implied. It's usually when people divorce and the ex husband doesn't want to pay. Now, in this case, he may not have been THAT delinquent. It sounds like he had the kids when LeVert was still makin money. Unless he got the support order modified after he stopped makin that much (i don't know if he was making anything lately) then he could rack up that amount pretty quickly. I agree that jail is not a viable option if a person is trying to make payments and for whatever reason can't keep up, but if it's blatant that they are just not paying, then they should go. Quality time is great and all, but what's a mother to do if she's not getting help to support the kids? She can't just say she's spending quality time with her kids, cause she usually ends up having to get another job to support them. Either way, there's no easy answer to this problem, because no one can foresee the future. My husband and I plan and hope to be able to provide for our child, but if something happens out of my control, what can i do?
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Name:
10piece
Comment: My 2 cents....I am happily divorced from my husband and we have 2 kids. My ex doesnt support me or the kids financially but has been so much a part of thier lives, it is invaluable. God has blessed me with the ability to take care of mine without relying on assistance from anyone. But the time thier dad spends with them and the involvement in thier lives I couldnt live without. I have many friends who are getting child support from thier sperm donors yet, the kids have NO relationship with the dads and I see them suffering. So those who think that time spent relates to money should see the look in a childs face when they see my kids with thier dad and the longing that goes with it
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: Who is the man in the photo at the top of BAW? That is not even Sean.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: The Levert's need to sue the hell out of Cuyahoga county. There is no way that Sean should have been locked up and tied down like that considering the condition that he was in. Can you imagine how terrifying that must have been? They knew he was overweight and had health issues as well as an addiction.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: Kremmy... STFU! You talking about us speculating... listen to yo azz "he MAY NOT have been THAT delinquent. It SOUNDS LIKE he had the kids when LeVert was still makin money. UNLESS he got the support order modified after he stopped makin that much (I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS MAKING ANYTHING LATELY)". Girl, go sit yo azz down somewhere.
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: -->gingerg i agree they should definitely look into suing because it appears the jail was very negligent.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: This is a prime example of why people need to diversify and plan to keep their money growing. I'm sure being a celebrity and living the high life can be a heady experience, but you need a back up plan. Take the talented Hill Harper for example. He's an actor, businessman, author, etc.
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: --->10piece it's good that you're able to care for your children alone but what about the women who have to get 2 jobs and are not as fortunate as you? they have to work several jobs to pay the bills and that is taking time away from their children and so as long as the man is coming to see them then that should be enough? i don't think so.....like someone said, it's not all the time that women are just having babies by men they don't know sometimes it's men they were married to for years and they would have never thought that he would become a deadbeat.
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Name:
mydchomegirl
Comment: >TRTR As a divorced mother, even if you're careful in selecting your mate you can't control a person's actions. I do agree with the fact that money should not be the sole factor in rearing one's child, however, if you're grown enough to lay - you're grown enough to pay! Here was a man that had the economic resources to rear his children but chose not too. I am so very sorry about his sudden demise but it doesn't excuse any man from taking care of his children. My ex-husband will say in a minute "how he marched with a million black men" but I wish he'd march to the child support office! Holler!
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: HOLLA! @ mydchomegirl.... great points and example especially the march his azz to child support office.
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Name:
BlkATLTop
Comment: Kremmy said :"He may not have been THAT delinquent" What in the hizelle do you call $85,000 in back payments? If that is not deliquent, what constitutes delinquency? Try telling your credit card company you're not delinquent after you've ratched up an 85,000 dollar bill, LOL.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: I could not rest if I didn't know that my child had food, shelter, clothing, etc. Yet, some couldn't care less.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Sorry 10piece. Unless your ex is disabled or takes care of the kids almost all day, everyday like a stay-at-home mom, he should be contributing financially. What kind of man sits around and lets a woman solely financially take care of his kids. Even if you make 10 times what he makes, a true man will still say "I'm going to cover x". What kind of example is he setting? Is he at least contributing to an account for the kids' education?
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Mas90 boy how old are you! If you have a point step up and make it but if you have to go through kindergarten to get there - don't bother. Talk about a nicca not making any sense read your stupid as.s posts. Whynotme as a woman I have seen both sides and I am not always doggin' females - there are times I get at the males. The fact is I believe that women give away any power they have by getting so desperate for some no good man she ends up in a dead end no win situation. I am hard on women, not harder because we are supposed to be more intelligent than men, because we and we alone can produce life and should be more respectful of the vessel that holds that life for nine months. I believe as I have said many times here that women have all the power in the relationship because NOTHING happens if she says no. I believe that if most women followed their head and ignored their crotch we would not have so many out of wedlock births or little girls reproducing. I see our responsibility as well as the mans but the option to say no I see over and above a lot of these situations.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: whynotme...its about choices. Anyone that have more kids than they can afford because thier spouse or significant other talks them into it should always consider if or when things go south, can she make it without that extra income? Hell I could probably have 10 kids if I wanted to but would I be able to care for them? Heck no. I knew I wouldnt be able to afford more than the 2 I have and some days it aint easy with them. When I left, I had my child support taking directly from my ex-husband check. Then handed it over to him to prove to him and myself that I dont need him or his money. With the divorce rate being what it is and the statistics of unwed mothers, you should be able to care for yours and if the dad decides to do the right thing, then that's extra
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: McNasty....LOL! you obviously have nothing to say cuase your weak azz reply worrying about what I said to Kremmy. Why don't you defend your stupid part-time jail housing program which I said was dumb? Don't worry about Kremmy. Take care of McNasty. Kremmy didn't make sense. Obviously you can comprehend English. Even BlkAtl caught that Kreemy doesn't have a clue of what she talking about. 85K is deliquent.
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Name:
dcdouglass01
Comment: So he went to jail. Serves him right, huh? Now throughout this exercise, how much money did the momma get? Somebody said he probably didn't have anything to garnish. So if he didn't have anything to garnish before he went to jail, he definitely ain't gonna have anything to garnish while behind bars. If nothing else, perhaps this incident will promote some discussion on how to improve the child-support system.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: Angel.. what I'm showing my kids are that there are choices in life. I work hard, have an education and support myself along with my kids. They realize what my choices in life have provided them and thats what I'm hoping they take from that. That to be able to take care of your self and your own. As I said, thier dad is very much a part of their everday life and the fact that he isnt giving me any money doesnt affect him loving his kids and being a responsible father. And yes he does buy them things all the time, I just dont set structure on him. Not my place to teach a adult how to be, but what I can do is set an example to my kids to have your own so you never have to depend on someone else
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: correction: Obviously you can't comprehend English.
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Name:
TRTR
Comment: Quality time is crucial in parents building solid relationships with their children. To think money will ever make up for quality time is a huge mistake. Most people want the money for unnecessary material things (ipods, xboxes, $200 sneakers, DVDs, CDs, cable television, and a bunch of other things that are NOT NEEDED). Most people who claim to be "struggling" always seem to have a television (or two) and cable. Those are not necessary items. So, if that extra money is supposed to go toward those material things, trust me, QUALITY TIME supersedes all of that. Ask any kid, they'd rather their parent spend time helping them with homework, going to the park, attending a PTA meeting, taking them to daddy's day at school, etc. than their dad sending a child support check to mom. Of course, money is needed to take care of the basic necessities, but if that's not possible based on circumstances, quality time is acceptable -- and it should not be downgraded for the dead presidents!
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Name:
Angel
Comment: 10piece - That's great if you have girls, but studies show that kids emulate most the same sex parent. I just hope if you have a son, he doesn't think it's ok for someone else to do all of the heavy financial lifting for his children...that is the example I was referring to.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: DCD... your response makes no sense. Sean had the ability to get a job. Maybe it isn't what he wanted to do but it would be income. He could've went to a job hunter, McDonalds, Wal-mart, somewhere to have job income. WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING A DEADBEAT? He would not be in his situation if he was paying his child support. Infact, he shouldn't have had any kids if he too lazy to work period. I work but it's not what I want to do. I keep working until I have reached my goal. Some of you want to skip everything and just fight againist him being in jail. If you care so much then you pay the 85K back then!
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Dcdoug, I thought that was the point of the discussion...jailing men for not paying child support and the consequences thereof. 10piece, hats off for not putting him on child support AND still allowing him to be a part of the child's life. Some women are taught, "if he can't pay...he can't play." That's a dangerous cocktail.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: Angel, my son is 17. He is more like me than my other daughter who is more like her dad than I care to admit. My son is the polar opposite mom & dad personalty wise. I must admit we can get staight gansta if called upon yet, my son is a gentle soul. He is an honor school student (actually both of them are) and has a plan on what he wants to do with his life that neither one of his parents knew at his age. All I'm trying to do is show them options. I cant imagine complaining about a check that is late or not having the check this month or that month would provide any insight as to what life is about. If any of my kids decided to go down whichever path they choose, they will know that they were loved by both parents differently. But that they were loved. Not that the check didnt come this month so your daddy must not love you
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: 10piece..what I gathered from your initial post about your ex-husband is that you are thankful to not "need" the support of anyone else to care for your kids, the father isn't on child support, and that he's actively involved in their life. I didn't readily azzume that the "invaluable time" he spends w/the kids is on your dime nor that does absolutely nothing for them. That's a bit illogical IMO.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: musbe... LOL!!! Trust me, giving up that money was well worth it. He would have been the type to try to question me about every dollar spent, whether it was my money or his. It is so refreshing to not have to answer to someone about where his child support is going....insight is great!!!! He would still try to have some control over me and that was not about to happen
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Musb - Good point. A woman should never prevent a father from seeing his kids no matter what he's paying. I just don't understand the mentality of a man that is ok with not taking care of his kids or seeing his kids. I would think that would eat at your manhood....
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Name:
10piece
Comment: musbedherbs.....I dont understand your last post.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: 10piece - I commend the fact that you don't need or complain about your ex's lack of financial support. My criticism is solely about his mentality. But the fact that he is in their lives is great. I'm just saying that my father was the type that it would kill him to know that he wasn't financially handling his business when we were growing up, regardless of what my mother was capable of doing. That's just the example I had. I just don't get the "she can handle it, so I'll keep my change" mentality of a man, that's all...
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Name:
10piece
Comment: Angel, thats not what I'm saying. Their dad does thing for them that I wouldnt normally do. Like buys them $200 tennis shoes because he remember's how he grew up wanting to have the best. I let him spend what he wants on the kids. I dont make him give me money, he gives it to the kids
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Name:
TRTR
Comment: "Angel," don't be so judgmental. Just because that's what YOUR father decided to do doesn't mean everyone else's will. Besides, "10piece" said her ex-husband buys things for the kids on a regular. Let's not judge!
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: 10p..lol..my bad..I was explaining how I didn't interpret ur post as suggesting that your ex did 'nothing' for your kids..but that he just wasn't on child support. Angel..I agree and will go further to say that I don't understand the mentality of a parent who shirks their responsibilities
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Co-signing TRTR..Angel...yes you are being judgmental. *grimmacing* lol
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: McNasty, there's an excellent editorial in today's Cleveland Plain Dealer about the consequences of having children out of wedlock at an early age.
My neice has a friend who is 15 years old. She's due in June. My neice's little girlfriends are asking her if she is going to give her a baby shower.
My neice needs money from her parents to see a movie, but her slow mother is considering hosting a baby shower.
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Name:
GHank
Comment: According to Tom Joyner, he had a talk with Eddie Levert over the weekend, and he was going to use one of his royalty checks from Coors Beer to help Sean get caught up. So apparently, it was in the process of being worked out. But Tom did admit that Eddie was not happy about it at all. Now this is before Sean died.
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Name:
arkansasgirl
Comment: I just got into a heated discussion with someone about women/men having kids out of wedlock. This person put all the blame on the woman(we were discusing a woman who had a child by a man who told her he didn't want kids) like she should be careful who she decides to have a baby by, etc. You can't control a person's actions. And for the man who said he didn't want kids...he had two options 1. he didn't have to sleep with her and 2. he should have worn a condom. I'm tired of hearing people putting all the blame on the woman. That's why we have so many deadbeat black men b/c they are given a pass. F dat! Whenever you lay down with someone, there is a possibility of the egg and sperm meeting each other. Granted, women with multiply kids with multiply baby daddies are a totally different story. Whether or not you want a baby and the woman has your child, you need to man up and take care of your responsibilites and not just with money. And what really p^ssed me off was I was arguing with a fool that was with a man that has 2 kids he doesn't see or take care of. I will never understand a woman who is with a man that doesn't take care of his kids.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: Wow Gingererg... a 15 yr old? Is the baby's father in the picture?
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Name:
arkansasgirl
Comment: Gingerg, I don't believe in attending baby showers for teenagers.
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Name:
kreemykarmell
Comment: TO Mas90 - obviously, you can't read an entire post, I suggest you go back and read it. My point was you don't know how much that man was supposed to pay monthly. Hell yeah 85,000 is a lot but if his payments was 20 or 40,000 a month, that's a couple months, and hardly a reason to be sent to jail. Maybe it's just me, but I recall that when ppl have lots of money, their support payments are ridiculous, like strahan and 50. how much was 50's before he got it modified? $25,000 for one kid? either way, it's none of your business, did he owe YOU money? and now, nobody's gettin that money - damn idiots.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: For some folks, all they know about parenting is how to make babies. My sister-in-law is a prime example. Her 18-year-old son may or may not graduate from high school in June. She doesn't know how he's doing because she hasn't called the school, reviewed his grade reports or met with the teachers. Her youngest son is having difficulty reading, but she won't take him to the library. Instead, they spend 8 hours a day on the football field some weekends. And, she's considering hosting a baby shower for a 15-year-old. And yes, my brother (her husband) is not much better.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: If I was Eddie, Sean would have paid that money back if I had to take him out on the road with me as a lighting tech or something.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: Arkansasgirl, If a man was to tell me that he didnt want a baby then I would think that he was being honest and if the woman got pregnant, then I blame her. There are TOO many types of birth control to get pregnant by a man that admits to not wanting a child. Ultimately the woman makes the decision to carry the baby to term, so ultimately she needs to be able to take care of it. I'm not talking about youngs girls like the 15 year old ^^up there because she doesnt have a clue but real grown up people.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Ark..understanding your frustration, here's a different perspective as to why women are "always blamed." Unless a rape has occured, the decision to have a child is always left up to the woman. If she doesn't take her pills and "ends up" pregnant, she's still in control. If she doesn't want the unborn, she can abore. If she doesn't want the child after birthed, she can put up for adoption. If she doesn't want the child to see his father...she control's that. All that to say, the "whose more responsible" argument can go on for days. IMO women have much more control of issues relating to the child. There's a responsibility that should be attached to having that "power" fairly or not.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: 10piece - I stand corrected. My comments should not be about your ex-husband since he does support the kids. TRTR and Musb - Yes I'm being judgmental of any able bodied parent who doesn't take full responsibility for their offspring. Guilty as charged!!! LOL Kids are not mandatory. If you don't want to care for them, quit having them.
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Name:
Jacque
Comment: Sean Levert's family seeks independent investigation of his sudden death.
Posted by Donna J. Miller April 01, 2008 11:37AM.
The family of Sean Levert is asking the FBI in Cleveland to investigate the death of the 39-year-old R&B singer who died suddenly after spending a week at the Cuyahoga County Jail.
Close relatives are also wondering if Sean's "bizarre behavior" shortly before he died, as reported by the warden, could have been caused by withdrawal from an anxiety medication he had been taking, first cousin Michael Gibson said today.
A videotape exists that shows Levert sitting calmly in the restraint chair, Warden Kevin McDonough said. "Then he begins to have shallow breathing. Our medical people were called and got him to the hospital."
He died at Lutheran Hospital at 11:57 p.m. Sunday.
"He's never before had any kind of crazy outburst," Gibson said.
It may be six weeks before toxicology tests are completed for the Cuyahoga County Coroner's Office, where an autopsy was performed Monday. Sean's body remains there, while his wife if 13 years decides what public and private services the family wants to plan.
Sean Levert was jailed on March 24, when he was found guilty of owing two women and their three children nearly $90,000 in support. Levert also has two children with his wife.
"Sean paid child support, just not through the proper channels," Gibson said. "He'd give $5,000 or more at a time to their mothers. He took his children on tours with him. They spent the summers with him. He was a good father."
Gibson, of Richmond Heights, found Sean's older brother, Gerald Levert, dead in his bed in November, 2006. Gerald death was accidental. He had mixed over-the-counter and prescription medications during an illness.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: And TRTR - You're right. Not everyone has a father like mine, but every child deserves one.
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Name:
Southernbelle
Comment: I am enjoying this discussion but I had to interject. @ gingerg, your sister-in-law is a better woman than me b/c there ain't no way I'd host a baby shower for a 15 year old. That's why they end up pregnant they think that shyt's cute. The only thing her lil azz needs are some parenting classes and a truck load of birth control.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Mas90 you need to quit fool! Nothing I've said even remotely references KK's posts - she can handle hers like I can handle mine and for someone that spends their time diggin' around in other men's behinds you're on the wrong side of this argument. Jail is your heaven isn't it? Back up boy your posts are elementary and have become too stupid to acknowledge and without some dumbas.s donor, you will likely never reproduce.
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: -->10piece so if a man tells a woman he doesn't want any kids but fails to use birth control, please explain to me why he's not at fault too? the same way a woman can use birth control a man can too or he could just not have sex with the woman but of course a man is just being a man so he gets a pass....WHATEVER!...i'm glad some of you won't be teaching my 2 sons anything about personal responsibility.
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Name:
Grace12_34
Comment: It's always a terrible thing when ANYONE dies while in custody, but I co-sign with Mas90. The laws are there for the protection of THE CHILDREN. THEY have to be protected no matter who decided to sleep with whom or who is trifling and who isn't. The bottom line is pay the fvcking child support and stay out of the slammer!!!! It wouldn't surprise me if this was all a coincidence, that death was imminent and just happened to occur while he was incarcerated.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: Kremmy... Obviously, you didn't read what i wrote. I didn't bytch about how much he owed. I said you talked about everyone else speculating. BLKATL talked about you re: 85K. Get yo shyt right. So you need to re-read what you wrote and what I said. I jumped in yo azz about speculating not how much he had to pay monthly. DAMN! none of you women (mcNasty & Kremmy) can read today.
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Name:
GHank
Comment: As a man, I'm really starting to be thankful that I don't have child support issues. Since I don't have any children, I think I better adopt.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: Who is the man in the top hat on the BAW home page? It is not Sean.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: McNasty... when you having nothing to say you always attack my sexual orientation which proves you don't anything intellectual to say.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: Wait a minute, McNasty. "Digging around in other men's behinds" does not have anything to do with this. Mas is speaking from the perspective of someone who has had to deal with the consequences of a father not handling his responsibilities and it is about much more than money.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: McNasty... women get fycked in the %*$ too. it's not a gay thang.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: AZZ
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Name:
10piece
Comment: Again it's all bout choices. He can choose if he wants to go further with someone who wants kids and she also has the choice to not go any further with someone that doesnt want kids. However, I would be protcting myself not just from pregnancy but from std's and a lifetime of heartache
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Gingerg thats one of the mistakes that these 'mothers' make - scraping up money to give their underage daughter a baby shower - that is cosigning her oops and I ain't for that! It is also a good bet that this won't be her only child because her 'mother' is going to make it easy on her, she will never get it and she's gonna end up walking in the very shoes her mother did.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: Thx gingerg for the support. :-)
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Grace 12 - The fact that his family members didn't give him the money speaks volumes, too. If I knew my son/brother was doing everything possible to take care of his kids, but fell behind on his payments and faced jail time, I'd help him out. If he was trifling, he'd be sitting in jail.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: OMG! Damn 'Nas...even I had to choke on that one. Good Lawd! As a point of clarification, there is a program called 'work release" where an inmate leaves for work during the day but comes back to jail in the evenings. Maybe that is a better alternative than sending them to jail and not being able to work..which means NO bill get paid.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Gingerg you can stand behind Mas90 if you want but I didn't read him doing anything but attacking other posts with his uneducated self. Whenever he thinks he has a point to make no other post makes sense and he just goes on and on. His personal situation - I'm not privvy to that - I am privvy to what he says on this board!
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Can we please stop talking about people's azzez. LOL
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Musb read my earlier posts and then check Mas90s! You're saying the same things I've been saying and that damn fool cracked too stupid for words!
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Ginger...Mas' had a deadbeat dad? When was that made known to EUR?
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Mas90 I will apologize for going there but I will also point you back to all your posts and ask if you even know what intellectual is?!
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: McNasty: I attacked Kremmy talking about all of us speculating. You re-read. As far the work/live in jail program is fine if it's available to those people.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: Mcnasty... you can't talk about intellect when you are down and don't have anything to say you attack my sexual orientation. You can't admit it. Keep your tired azz apology cause you do it all of the time. Your comments mean that how you truly feel. You claim to like gays and shyt. Bytch you a lie. Now suck on that!
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: 10Piece big ups for not backing down! Some just can't see what you know to be true - for them it is all about the money. In an ideal situation men should support any and all kids they help to create but this is the real world and people aren't getting together because they are in a committed relationship they're just doin' it and getting upset because they are left holding the bag.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: "Gibson said. "He'd give $5,000 or more at a time to their mothers. He took his children on tours with him. They spent the summers with him. He was a good father." If this statement is true, then this might have been of case of greedy baby mamas unstead of a deadbeat dad, or he could have been a deadbeat, but my point all alone as been without details you just can't look at the amount and make a judgement one way or the other. Question for yall who are in the know. If a child stayed with the father for the summer months, would the father still be required to may child support for those three months?
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Mas90 it isn't too often any more that I even acknowledge your posts because you just post shat I don't even think you believe. Fine, I will keep my apology and believe and trust I mean everything I post and I meant to insult you and as you see, I know exactly how to do it. Like gays? I like people in general and a few happen to be gay. I don't have all this bullshat back and forth with them like I do with you - they are intelligent and there is nothing we can't discuss including their lifestyle. Bytch? Yeah bytch boy and don't you ever forget it!
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Name:
10piece
Comment: DOne, I think that the dad should keep that money. If it's going for child support, then thats where it should go. I might not be agreed with because there are some who's rent, car and other survival needs have been factored in the child support so they might not agree.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: Mas, you're welcome. McNasty, we talked about this issue briefly on Friday. I think I brought it up by speaking about my own situation with a father who did not pay his child support. Not helping with living, education, etc. expenses is only part of it. Do you have any idea what it does to a child (male or female, straight or gay) to know that their own father didn't care enough to ensure that they were taken care of?
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: DOne my nephew kept his daughter for the summer and still paid child support to her mother and after care expenses to the day care. When she went back to stay with her mother she took him to court to get an increase in the almost $2,000 per month he was already paying and buying all her clothes. I guess it might be different in other cases but when my nephew was hit with another notice to go to court - he sued for sole custody, she showed her as.s in court and now he has full custody but he refuses to use the child against her the way she did him.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: It doesn't matter how often you acknowledge my postings. it's what you say period. Now since you can't stand me it would make sense for you to even say anything to whatever i comment on. I can handle the beef with you 'cause i know eventually you going to attack my sexual orientation like a typical punk. You ain't first and u ain't the last. It's just proves there more than one bigot on the planet. Proves you threaten by something that doesn't involve you.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: correction: it would make sense for you NOT to even say anything to whatever i comment on.
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Name:
arkansasgirl
Comment: 10piece, if a man doesn't want a child, he still needs to strap up. He stills needs to protect himself. He might be fooling with a woman that doesn't care about him not wanting a child.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Gingerg I have seen the kids whose fathers didn't care. In fact coming up I watched the man my childhood friend knew as her dad walk by her to get to his buddies to tailgate. I grew up with enough of those kids to know it manifests itself in them in varying degrees of destructive behaviors. Only a few of them are successful in life. If Mas wants me to know something different about him he needs to come to the board with a different mentality instead of attacking everydamnthing I say because he doesn't agree ain't the way. I don't hold grudges but I don't forget either and being called 'fish' is still grating!
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Name:
10piece
Comment: McNasty, I tell all the men I know who pay child support to document everything. Pay in cashier's check, money orders, or personal checks for everything, clothes, extra's anything. That's what I dont care for with these women, actually having someone take care of the kids and yet the women get greedy. I applaud your nephew for not being petty with the mother. 2 wrongs dont make a right and he's proving to his daughter how to have class
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Name:
DOne
Comment: >10piece, I agree, but I think that's a flaw in the system. I've have heard of cases where the father was paying support but had the kids most of the time. In fact I know of one case where I was telling someone to sue for joint custody because kids was at his house half of the time so he should have either had joint custody or the amount should have been cut in half. On the other hand there are times when the system works well. Each case should be looked at individually.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Boy shut up you want to keep shat going and you're not worth that much. The fact that twice you have read something in my post that was never there precludes me from continuing. Like you? I don't even know you except for what you post here and if that's all you want for me to know I'm cool with it, just don't expect anything too much different than what you're giving!
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: McNasty...I don't want to know you! I haven't ever stated I wanted to KNOW you. girl you are so in denial. You can't take blame for nothing. Yeah I did use "fish" but I stopped that over 7 months ago. I've changed. Can you???
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: There are men who view the results of their encounters with certain women as less valuable. Yet, they will raise and children that they "want" with a different woman.
In my case, my father wanted the benefits of fatherhood (birthday presents, Christmas presents, even Father's Day present)as long as we mailed them to his uncle's house so we didn't have a fixed address on him. He also enjoyed bragging about how he made pretty babies.
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Name:
Train
Comment: I'am so sorry to hear about the passing of Sean Lavert. Did he leave a will? The probate hearing will be very interesting in the next few weeks.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: You can't say you've changed and we're still at square one. Let it go and keep it moving.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: McNasty... why don't we agree to stop commenting on each other post if we don't have anythhing nice to say? If we can't say anything without calling us names then we don't say nothing at all. Deal?
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Name:
10piece
Comment: Arkansasgirl, I agree totally with you. That is the oldest trick in the book. Getting pregnant to keep a man. I've seen it done a million times and it has never worked out. A man should strap up anyway, but I like my other friends also have condoms on us. Plus I have other forms of birth control. But if I were to get pregnant (hypothetically) I should factor in a few things. Do I want this baby for me? Am I able to afford this baby? Am I able to deal with the lifetime of answering my childs questions about their father and my role in why he's not in the picture. All within the time limit to get it resolved if thats my decision.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: yeah i can tell you've been keeping a track of everything i do on eurweb. Mas90 has become McNasty new job responsibilty.
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Name:
arkansasgirl
Comment: According to T.I.’s attorney’s, T.I. is not on house arrest for a year as was widely reported last week. “T.I. can go anywhere he wants,” said one of his attorneys. But the rapper needs court approval to attend certain industry events, and he has to adhere to a strict curfew.
Last night, T.I. stepped out on the town with his pregnant girlfriend Tiny. The happy couple attended an exhibit by T.I.’s personal photographer, Derek Blanks.
Despite his newfound freedom, T.I. is still required to wear an electronic monitoring device at all times. He can not leave Georgia without permission and he must complete 1000 hours of community service speaking to troubled youth about the dangers of drugs, guns and gangbanging.
The rapper has been the subject of harsh criticism since pleading guilty to federal weapons charges last week. Many believe he was handed a sweetheart deal by federal prosecutors because he snitched.
Those who accuse T.I. of snitching simply don’t know how the justice system works for affluent people. The key is to hire attorneys who have established good working relationships with the prosecutor and judges.
T.I.’s popularity would have made the case difficult to prosecute in Atlanta anyway. This case wasn’t so much about guns as it was about drugs.
In their zeal to find drugs, federal agents tore T.I.’s front door off it’s hinges, threw stun grenades in the face of his two year old and stomped his teenage nephew.
Instead of finding kilos of cocaine, agents found children’s toys, and a collection of guns - some over 15 years old - tucked away in a safe in the back of his bedroom closet. If the case had gone to trial, evidence would have shown that none of the guns had been recently fired.
Agents didn’t find so much as a burnt joint in the house. It was standard overkill. A case of overzealous federal agents acting on a tip from an informant who may not have been all that reliable.
T.I.’s plea deal benefits everyone including taxpayers who would have footed the bill to warehouse him in prison. By placing T.I. on probation, the state saves thousands in taxpayer dollars.
Sources say T.I. is working overtime in the studio every night to complete his album “Paper Trail”. He and Tiny are eagerly awaiting the birth of their son in May.
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Name:
arkansasgirl
Comment: My bad. Wrong board.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: So you want to deal and then come back and want to be my new job responsibility? Mas90 if we can't have an intelligent discussion, if we can't agree to disagree sometimes there is no real point. I can argue with the best of them but would rather not.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: Speaking of change, Mas straightened me out about something I said several months ago and I have been acting right ever since.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: Obviously, the child support system need to be made more equitable. However, since about 70% of black children are born out of wedlock? This is not divorce. The bigger issue is that there are many irresponsible black men and women who are hooking up and reproducing irresponsible children to repeat the cycle. Its an issue that few want to address due to fear of offending someone. However, the courts are not the solution because there are few, if any, examples of government success with fixing a problem within our community, usually the situation just gets worse. Whenever we look outside to solve our problem the response is usally "put them in jail" and although jail isn't always bad, its not the solution when we are not the ones who run the jails or control the courts.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: gingerg - My stepbrother's father moved and didn't even tell him where. He felt like an idiot knocking on the door only to have the new owner tell him his dad moved a few days earlier. He's never taken care of my stepbrother or his other kids, BUT has the nerve to brag about taking care of his current wife's 3 kids that aren't even his. *SMH*
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Gingerg - and that was?
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: if you go by some of the screwed up logic of some of you, if the man didn't want kids and the woman gets pregnant it's her responsibility; if he wanted kids but then decides he doesn't want to take care of the kids then it's the woman's responsibility; or if she used protection and it failed then it's still her responsibility.....it's no wonder men walk around screwing anything that moves because it's not his responsibility if a baby is born or he gets a STD....either way the woman should have known better....i'm glad we will have to answer to God in the end instead of some of you because you better believe God doesn't take the "she didn't use protecttion" excuse from any man.
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Name:
Southernbelle
Comment: @ McNasty, girl you know you ain't right LMAO!!!!!! I'm popping some popcorn on this here.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: DOne more than the child support system needs to be overhauled. Someone's point was that it was for the protection of the children but listening to the news of late we aren't doing that very well either. People who barely know each other, underage kids and those that don't want kids need to think or be put in a position to think about what the future is like with an actual education and goals. Attention needs to be refocused on sex education and offering it in schools since some parents are too embarras.sed to talk about it. The majority of what needs to be done is on a community and family level. We shouldn't be in court suing for anyone to take care of a child that they helped create but at some point someone just has to say no!
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Southernbelle you're late girl! It's dead and stinkin' - I pray!
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Men screw anything that moves because anything that moves is allowing it.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: whynotme, please enlighten us with how you see it
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: McNasty, I can't even remember exactly what I said, but it wasn't very nice. It wasn't an insult, though. Learned my lesson, vowed to do better.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: Why don't more people just take those damn shots since they obviously can't remember to take one little pill per day. And don't rely on condoms because some people don't know how to put them on, they slip and so forth.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: Angel, I guess the mentality of someone like that is "Someone will take care of them. Doesn't matter as long as it is not me." When my father became ill, he actually started talking about me moving back down south to take care of him. He was serious.
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Name:
Southernbelle
Comment: I may be late but that shyt still was funny. Both of ya'll, Mas and McNasty, made some valid points. I can see both sides. Personally, if the mom's okay with handeling it on her own and the kids don't suffer then cool. But, if the mom can't make it solo and dad is just dodging the bullet then somebody needs to pay and it damn sure ain't me. Parents should just make decisions that are better for the kids and not just themselves.
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Gingerg sad to say I actually remember that. The fact is I vow to do better each morning when I am having my private moment with my Lord and Maker and then someone like Mas comes along. Not to worry when he really grows up I will have already found something new to marvel at and he will still be fooling himself about how he has changed.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: whynot...your feelings are in this. I've read all the posts and none of them imply what you have just suggested. Read for context then interpret..not assume/interpret then read. lol
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: Southernbelle the shame of it is Mas only wanted it to be his side and people in this discussion have had a myriad of different experiences with the same situation. The fact is babies don't just pop up and it's way past time for us to be more responsibile in our lives because our kids are killing themselves with guns and diseases, they are growing up not knowing anything about the quality of life and its not a good situation all around.
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Name:
kreemykarmell
Comment: Mas - unless you were there and know all of the facts, your speculating... and since you can't even spell my name right, no, you can't read. Now, were you a fly on the wall in all of these people's lives? perhaps I should've used the word conjecturing? theorizing? guessing? Since your post was about my use of the word 'speculating'. Now unlike you, i have more important things to do.
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Name:
4462DG
Comment: If a man doesn't want children, he can also get a vasectomy, problem solved!!!! But not too many men want to go there, yet they always want to %*$!( "I don't want children" well do something about it.
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Name:
Southernbelle
Comment: @ McNasty what you just posted reminds me of three girls at my daughter high school. All three have kids by the star basketball player. I'm like WTF are they teaching these kids. I guess they're popping out babies hoping he goes pro. They'll get first dibs on his pay. It's Too bad that their little minds can't fathom the fact that he has an equal chance of hitting the lottery than going pro and these lil dumb azzes are going to be stuck raising these kids. Because he obviously don't care. If he did, it would have been one accident as oppose to three.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: whynotme, I don't think anyone is saying that men don't share responsibility, but that, women carry more of the responsibility. Its not fair, but then the world isn't. Although its an extreme case, the example I always give is this: what if two strangers met at a club late one night in any large city and decided to hook up for a one night stand. Both parties understood this was just sex and used a condom. However, despite this, the woman realized that she's pregnant a few weeks later. She doesn't even have the guy's number or last name and doubt that he used his real name because she didn't use hers. She never sees him again at the club and realizes that she she has no way of finding the guy.It would be nice if life was fair, however, while the man is somewhere bragging about his one nighter, the woman is left to make decisions: does she have the child or not; does she raise the child or not. How does she explain oneday that she doesn't know who the father is. ......Like I said, this is an extreme example, however, it points out that its just easier for a man to engage in an irresponsible act and walk away then a woman. Its not fair, but its life.
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: -->10piece i'm not trying nor do i want to enlighten anyone on my point of view but the way i see it is if two adults make a child and don't use any protection then it's both of their faults and not just one person.....even if the woman says she is using something and is trying to so-call trap the man it's still both of their faults, his for not protecting himself no matter what she says and hers for being a manipulative azzhole......and apparently the courts don't give a flying f*ck whether the man wanted the child or not because they sure make him pay child support either way.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: I have another question for the board. A woman becomes pregnant and decides not to have the child because she is neither finacially nor emotionally able to care for a child. The father finds out and wants her to keep the baby. Should he have the right to force her to carry the baby to term, sue for custody, and then force her to pay child support?
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: -->musbdherbs you have to be joking if you are trying to say that no one on this board put all the blame on the woman and you say that i need to read for context, maybe you need to reconsider that for yourself.
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: -->DOne she would just have to either take care of the baby by herself, get an abortion or put it up for adoption....simple, those are her only choices since she doesn't know the dude.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: DOone, hell no!
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Name:
DOne
Comment: >whynotme, but I think that the point some on the board was trying to make, that ultimately the women is the one who have to take the risks of carrying the child so therefore, she has to be more careful.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: DOne, may I suggest that people go back to rubbing and petty if they can't do any better?
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Name:
dcdouglass01
Comment: Point One on improving the system: "Sean paid child support, just not through the proper channels," Gibson said. "He'd give $5,000 or more at a time to their mothers..." And was it credited to what he owed? Because many state child support systems won't credit any support as being paid unless it comes from the father to them, then to the mother. Point One: Credit any verifiable support paid.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: >gingerg, I asked that question because there are those who would argue that you can't say men have equal responsibility, but not equal rights.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: DOone, I meant rubbing and petting.
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Name:
gingerg
Comment: He probably paid like that because he didn't want his business in the streets. Now look.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: >ginger, remember when Joycelyn Elders basically suggested that alone with mastubatiion back when she was Surgeon General and its cost her her job lol.
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Name:
whynotme
Comment: -->DOne being responsible as the primary caretaker of a child is totally different from being responsible for a child financially & everything else no matter the circumstances of how the child got here.
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Name:
dcdouglass01
Comment: 4462DG, on the vasectomy tip, been there, done that. I've already had one surprise, but there'll be no more for this brother. They're reversable (at a 90+% certainty), so I can go there if I want as well. But my lady is in nursing school right now, and a baby is the last thing that's on her mind.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: Good question DOne. I really dont know how I would handle the situation. Again its my CHOICE on whether I carry the baby. But If he was willing to support the baby and I wanted to keep it then I wouldnt see a problem. If I got pregnant and didnt want it, he'd never know about it
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Name:
DOne
Comment: >10piece, I asked that question because although I believe in a woman's right to choice, I also believe that men should have rights also. Part of the issue with many man, and I'm not talking about the real deadbeats here, is that they feel that they are viewed as nothing but a checkbook without any say on how the child is raised. This can cause resentment. Its no excuse to neglect the child, but it is what it is. I think that's why we are seeing more and more men suing either for full or joint custody. I've also know of cases where the man wanted the baby, but the mother wanted to either abort are give the baby up for adoption and I just couldn't understand why when the father is saying give me the child any woman would do that except spite
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Name:
Southernbelle
Comment: DOne>I wouldn't carry the baby but I would agree to have implanted into the man if he insists.
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Name:
DOne
Comment: >Southernbell LOL
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Name:
Angel
Comment: DOne - Prior to birth, the responsibilities aren't the same for men and women. No man has ever died or become injured giving birth, so the woman should control what happens inside her body....Now after the baby is born, I do believe the responsibilities should be equal. Unless both parties agree to give it up for adoption, it can't happen and both parties remain responsible for supporting the child. At the end of the day, folks need to be doing less screwing and more communicating.....
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Name:
10piece
Comment: DOne, good point. However,I've yet to meet a man that wanted a baby and the woman didnt. I think its very noble for that but honestly, would he know what he's getting into? Raising a baby if far different from raising a child and far different from raising a teenager. Just like these young kids having babies, men dont know how much hard work it is to give life and raise live thru different stages.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: 10piece - I've known men who wanted to have a baby when the mother didnt, BUT they were talking about raising the baby together. I think that tune would change for many if the woman said "I'll drop the baby off after birth and you can raise the baby by yourself".
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: Kremmy... I mispelled it on purpose. You still don't get it. You made just as many speculations as everyone else on here and all it takes one.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: McNasty... the responsiblity was referring to keeping attract of when and the last time I used "fish".
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Name:
DOne
Comment: >10piece, there are more than you realize. Even in divorce, even if the father is a better parent, unless the mother is absoluately unfit, its very diffifult for the man to get custody. Also, given the state of the black community, it could be argued that most black women don't even know what they're getting into with raising kids. Its hard work know matter who does it, however, if a man wants to, he can do just as good job as a woman. However, no matter how good a person is as a parent, if they think a child doesn't need the influence of both males and females parental figures they are kidding themselves.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: DOne, that is so true. I think of the choices I made in my life with not having a male figure and it was a long hard road. I see the effects of not having fathers in kids lifes. It does take male and female influences. I'm saying that everyone wants a "baby" but those babies grow up and it is not easy for anyone to do it alone.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: I think I'm missing something. Who is Kremmy?
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Name:
10piece
Comment: ooppps nevermind. I read all the way up there. LOL!!
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Name:
SewRite
Comment: McNasty>Concerning your comments about dads behind in child support being jailed, I can't give you a co-sign today. One of the purposes of jail is to send a strong, strong message that disregard of the law won't be tolerated. For some people this is the only way to reinforce this. The hope is that the individual will shape up and do right. You know, there are a lot of entertainers whose careers decline(the Jacksons and Sylvers come to mind) and they are too proud to look for and accept normal work. This is wrong, especially, when you have children to support. At the time of Edmund Sylvers death, I understand he was working at a plant in Virginia. He should have been. He has 10 or 11 kids!!! If you're not making money singing then sometimes you have to put that microphone down!!
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Name:
kreemykarmell
Comment: apparently you still don't get it - that was my point to begin with. No one should be speculating because we don't know what was going on in the lives of the people involved.
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