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Name: huey
Comment: well i wished mo would have asked him to explain why tavis in his own words on his pbs show tuesday night "gave mccain the benefit of the doubt" when he referred to senator obama as "that one", the same way he said he "gave the benifit of the doubt" to ross perot when he said "you people". considering the viseral manner in which mccain and pailin have run their campaign why does he feel mccain deserves the benefit of ANY ones doubt and that mccain didnt have the worst of intentions by referring to the senator as "that one". give me a break tavis. u are sounding really full of sh88 these days.
Name: MOTHERSHIP
Comment: Huey, gotta agree with ya on that, playa.
Name: goodnplenty1957
Comment: hmmmm, lets see, (playa hata), you dogged out Obama, yet didnt dog out Hillary (uncle tom, house knee-grow, or___________fill in the blank!)..and you wont say who you supported? STEVIE WONDER could have seen who you were rooting for! after Obama gets elected, i am sure you will be saying, yes even though i got on him, i was rooting for him....BULL.SHEET.
Name: HersheysKiss
Comment: OKayyyyyyyy...we're STILL reporting on this?
Name: msstarr82
Comment: tavis you are still the man!!! you are more than capable of standing up for yourself and what you believe in and you make me proud just as obama does. there is nothing more sincere than an AFRICAN american who will fight for the greater good of all Black people to be who and what they are as individuals, no matter what some say to the contrary. it is inconceivable that all Black people should always agree about everything. and it's totally ignorant to insist that they should!!
Name: HarrisThomas
Comment: yeah, Hershey, as though it matters . . . . . bro-man stayed with Joyner to maximize publicity and outreach for Covenant with Black America and its followup book: surely a man who tells us how to fix ourselves can trust us with knowing who he plans to vote for, doncha know
Name: HarrisThomas
Comment: on the other hand, T-man can tell us who he voted for on Nov 5, after we know the results of the election
Name: HersheysKiss
Comment: HT...you betcha..yer darn right!
Name: TGen
Comment: Tavis was very Bill Clinton-esque in answering the questions in this interview. His avoiding the directness of the questions speaks volumes, lol. A blind man could see there's still animosity there, I'm not sure where it's directed, his audience or BO, but it's definitely there. This was an okay article except for the last paragraph when the writer felt it necessary to inject his opinion. Personally, I take umbrage with this: "Tavis continues to remain at the forefront in the struggle for equality for Black Americans." I think Tavis' standing has been severely compromised due to his antics over the past year or so. Sorry I no longer consider him at the "forefront" of anything. A smart, talented, successful guy he is, but he does not wield the social power he once had, sorry, he just doesn't.
Name: Taurusingr
Comment: Somebody get "this one" some peppermint! Yall knoooooow this housenygga has "bad breathe"!, with all that YT as-s he's been kissin! Yo homey...ain't nobody tryin to hear yo backpedlin as-s now! Oh!, now that Obie's bout to get in there, yo as-s feels the need to "explain yo self" Fukk outta here wit that "take me back, I'z negra bullshyt"! Stay yo tommin as-s over thurr on "massa's porch", & continue to mo massa's lawn, shine his shoes, or whateva the fukk massa needs done! Although, with this "change" a comin?...yo as-s might just be outta gig, cause we know DAMN WELL MASSA IS ABOUT TO BE! What you need to is, check yo "seniority" on the housenygga totempole! One!
Name: Taurusingr
Comment: P.S...And BTW, the "record's BEEN clear, & straighter than the 1st "hard-on"!...You's a housenyggas fo real!! Holla!
Name: MOTHERSHIP
Comment: TGen, Tavis acts as if he's jealous or somethin' of the Senator. Maybe he mad because Obama stole his thunda. But he definitely been on some %*$! here lately. I concur with ya post. What it do, Taurus?!
Name: cookyd
Comment: Tavis would be a very good politican.Talking around subjects and not directly answering questions.
Name: HarrisThomas
Comment: I don't think that TS is jealous of Barack Obama . . . . . . Tavey positioned himself as spokesperson for black America with Covenant and Black State of the Union . . . . . . by his reckoning, we are supposed to take the him seriously or suffer consequences that he will predict after the consequences have been suffered . . . . . he did not reckon that we have passed out of the phase of needing one or two someones to speak for all of us . . . . . his mis-step has caused him to be lumped into the lower-your-eyes-when-they-walk-by category that includes Rev. Jackson and Rev. Sharpton and that's the source of his unhappiness with Barack Obama and with us
Name: xavixavi
Comment: I think you all have it wrong. Most of us gave B.O. a pass on anything difficult b/c he is black. Tavis was just trying to say that we need to ask all the questions. If those questions aren't asked, we can end up with an elected official who trys to hard to please YT while forgetting he is black and that we as black folk had a LOT to do with getting them elected! If you live in a large city, you can name at least ONE public official that fits that bill. And Yes, I give methusulah(sp) the benefit of the doubt too. I ain't voting for him, but I do realize that when you make too much of what can possibly be a slip of the tongue, you play into YT's hand. Make this about race, and Obama loses. Make this about who is the better, smarter candidate and he wins! It's a GAME, and playing it correctly means you don't jump at every bad move of your opponent!
Name: Quanli
Comment: The same questions he asks of Barack Obama he would not dare ask John McCain and that is a fact. Therefore, he point is mute.
Name: TGen
Comment: Xavixavi, I think you have it wrong. I don't recall any Black person giving BO a "pass" on anything, most evaluated him with the same yardstick they evaluated others running, something Tavis did not do. He raised the standards for BO to the point that in his eyes if he wasn't hollering "Black folks this, Black folks that" all the time that he somehow wasn't supporting Blacks' interests, instead of conceding that a lot of the issues BO touted ie war and economy absolutely were in Blacks' interests. Beyond that, Tavis spoke with BO more than once and had ample time to hear his positions on the issues. When BO passed on Tavis' STBU, though, it seems those other interviews counted for nothing. At that point, it seemed to have become about Tavis' ego not this altruistic love he supposedly had for his community. His ego got in the way, plain and simple. Does not make him a "bad" person per se, just makes him less relevant in this historic time. Tavis is too small-minded for this gigantic moment. It's a shame too cuz he could have/ would have added a lot to the movement, were he able to contain some of that pride. Oh well...
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: TGEN..glad u noticed..I did too...very "depends on what the definition of is..is'sh." Xavi..i don't doubt that asking the questions was Tavis' initial intent. The problem is that he seemed to focus on the exact same thing he had a problem w/other blacks doing...because he's black. He was not equal in his criticism and because of that, he was looked at from the other side of the street. So IMO, it's one thing to say that we shouldn't accept Obama "just because" he's black. Then it's another to hold him (because he's black) to a standard different than what he's proposing for the others. That was and continues to be my problem. RE: benefit of the doubt, had McCain not decided to go nuclear calling Obama a terroist sympathizer/anti-american, then I would've been more willing to give him that doubt. However, I have never heard him nor any other politician use "that one" when referring to a colleague or any other opponent. I wonder if a man had said that to Palin or Clinton, would people have given him the benefit like they have continued to do for McCain. I'm glad the Obama camp is jumping on this one since they haven't b4 now. BTW, Michelle was AWESOME last night.
Name: BigRuss
Comment: Hey Tavis keep up your good work.
Name: HarrisThomas
Comment: trust me, xavixavi, BHO is not getting a pass among black folks . . . . . as a matter of fact, BHO is on notice: those of us inclined to vote for him won't mind taking him to task as is needed in the same manner (impotently) as we have with Clinton and dubya
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: And Tavis interviewed Obama on his OWN show and hosted the debate at Morgan..the one Mccain didn't attend. So it's not like he hasn't had the change to question Obama on a national stage. He has.
Name: TMan
Comment: Tavis, You do You! Do Your Thing!
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: Tavis played himself, plain and simple. As others said, he let his ego get in the way. As for him not stating who he'd vote for, well I have to liken it to Queen Latifah not giving her private life. I respect Latifah for not putting her business out in the street but I believe she won't because she doesn't want to be labeled only as a lesbian (that I believe her to be, by the way). I can't fault her for that. I think the same is true for Smiley. I'd bet a mortgage payment that he's not an Obama supporter and that would be a smack in the face of blacks he represents and that would damage his career even further. That's my belief. I don't believe he would vote for McCain, but who knows. He gave him a pass on his "that one" thing. Even if it wasn't racist, it WAS disrespectful. He gets no pass. Even whites on the news channels give him no pass. Even the ones who don't think it racist found it highly disrespectful and offensive. I have never really liked Smiley but I REALLY started to despise him over him gunning for Obama as he has. I don't really trust any of these "race men" anymore. As someone said, Sharpton, Jackson, and now Smiley are just jokes. It's a wrap, gentlemen. I like and respect people like Cornell West, not these knuckleheads.
Name: huey
Comment: queeniebunz ---, i concur...as u said, "race men". i took a lot of flack months ago in eur when i referred to the lot of these men as what i called them "culture pimps". my term, didnt read it anywhere. i just observe and see some of these folks as culture pimps. not all of them. just some of them make a liven off of the backs of black folks misfortunes.
Name: professo285
Comment: Tavis is a big cry babby and his credibility is washed away just as Jessie Jackson's and Al Sharptons. His decision to leave the Tom Joyner show was a bad one. I would have stayed there at least until after the election was over to continue holding Obama accountable leav to the issues that are significant to blacks.
Name: fanteeking
Comment: Tavis could be the iconic picture for my expression, "a Has Been Once WUZ". At one time, he commanded the center stage in African-American media politics. He was our brilliant and shinning star....but along came BO and eclipsed hiz azz. Smiley slipped and dropped his pigfoot and now he's regarded as a pouting, cry baby (like an earlier poster said) in Africa-America. Some folks may be still spell-bound by his erudite elocution and witty remarks, but all I see is a pseudo-intellectual Unka Tom who is selling tickets for the TITANIC.
Name: rho_dog2
Comment: In the spirit of full disclosure I have never been a Tavis fan, and for the record I have attended two events hosted by him, one in which he was a solo speaker and his pass the mic tour, do my feeling are not just antidotal. However his behavior with regards to BO is what many have already said, jealously. Tavis had convinced him self that he was the door by which America access Black America. For some 5 – 6 years he used Black folk as a attach dogs for what ever issue he decided needed to be brought to light (and in fairness to him, were indeed great causes). What he forgot is that attack dogs do at time attach the handles if they get to comfortable. Like many of you I think he would be received different had he simply said I am a support of Hillary and then made his statements. But to pretend to be neutral and then be so unashamed anti Obama was insulting. His ego finally caught with him and became his undoing. As some one else has same it has now tarnish his position in History.
Name: ss69054
Comment: What has Tavis done so significantly for Blacks???? Okayyyy, he wrote a best-sellers book and had a show.....sooooo,I am still trying to understand how is he a key-player??? He does nothing but run his mouth about problems and no real solutions...no better than Jesse. I think BO stoles some of his primetime and now the Negro is heated!!!
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >huey - Wow! We agree on something! LOL...I actually got that term "race men" from something I read awhile back. I can't remember if it was an autobiography or a novel but the character/person was female and she described her daddy as a "race man", meaning someone who fought for the civil rights of black people, obviously. I think the term is appropriate here. But, Tavis, Al, and Jesse are more like race pimps, if you ask me. They are publicity whores. It's not about race for them. It's about seeing their names in papers and seeing their pictures on TV and nothing about race issues. It's a shame because they are articulate men with charisma but they "used their powers for evil and not good"...It's a shame. But it's like what Al Pacino said at the end of "The Devil's Advocate" - "Vanity, it gets them every time." That is so appropriate here because all of these men fell to the sin of vanity (among others). Such is life
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: Queenie..I hear you but I will disagree that Sharpton and Jackson are jokes but not Cornell. He was the one who questioned Obama's blackness AND his speech at the democratic convention in saying that he didn't talk about MLK enough. They all have their issues/dissenting opinions...cornell included
Name: TGen
Comment: Rho_dog2, good post, but I have to say I don't think Tavis would have been looked upon more favorably had he come out in support of Hillary Clinton, lol, not at all! I don't think he needed to say who he supported at all, that wasn't the issue. The issue was the constant criticism and silly digs at Obama, which seemed to come out of thin air. The issue was the unfair treatment he gave BO in comparison to others. For Tavis, it seemed personal, more about his role (or lack thereof) in the whole "movement," not about his looking out for Black folks. And a lot of people peeped his game, and he can't come to grips with that. I think that's the issue. SS69054, Tavis has been a positive representation for Blacks and he has established some programs in the way of helping Black youth, etc. so I'll give him that. But I'll also concede your [implicit] point that most of what he's done has padded his pockets also, lol.
Name: Cappaucino
Comment: I no longer like this self important over cast negro. He tried to flex his opinionated muscle and got reigned on! It turns my stomach how some blks will try to keep another down. This guy thought when he dissed OB the rest of blk america would to. They told his sorry a@# to step. This dummy wants to ruin progress for a billion people who have struggled and endured and finally see some light at the end of the tunnel for one person (himself). Screw that buster and I no longer support him, maybe in a few years if he gets his head right.......
Name: Renetta
Comment: Tavis said ‘the public deserves from me fair and balanced…but you WEREN’T you NEVER took hillary or bill clinton to task for the list of things they did but you dinged Barack on everything. That’s not balanced. He never had one negative thing to say about hillary – hell Chris Mathews or Keith Oberman both white men were more BALANCED then you. You don’t know the meaning of the word. Your hate showed brother – it showed. I am so completely disappointed in you. You and the rest of the black sell-outs (yes I believe all of you were paid your 40 pieces of silver by the clintons) I was your biggest fan – wrote BET when they canned you. Bought BOTH of your books and stood in line for an hour to get one autographed. Never again. You can’t unring a bell – it’s done. I am so through with you.
Name: professo285
Comment: It all goes back to Tavis's State of the Black Union conference that Obama was invited to but could not attend. Tavis got upset about it and since then has shown his ignorance. As I stated here several months ago, if Obama had attended this conference, Tavis would be all over the man right about now. He would be his biggest spokesperson. Keep in mind though black folk, if for some reason Obama should loose this thing, Mr. Smiley, the cry baby has a reason to wave the bottle and say, "I told you so."
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >musb - I didn't know about that. I'd be interested to see an article or whatever that illustrates your point. That is not to say I am doubting you. I'd just be interested in reading up on it since I didn't know that.
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >professo285 - that's why this is so disappointing. He made it about him. We have history here. I dare say that this is the most historical election to date, above all others and this fool has made it all about him. Obama is the right choice - for all people - even whites in the heartland of Indiana think so but he can't see past his own agenda to help another black man succeed. To me, it's the crabs in a barrel thing. Obama is the real deal here. He doesn't in any way deny his blackness. He presents himself as a classy, educated, accomplished black man with a beautiful family and a goal for this country and that includes black people. I just can't grasp why Smiley and other doubters are so critical. Maybe it's the Scorpio in me. When I have your back, I have it all the way and that's how I feel about Obama. I have his back so I'll defend him, yet I will express if I think he didn't perform to his best ability as I did yesterday about his debate performance. This makes me really hate Smiley. It really does. I can't stand to see his face or hear his voice. Blech.
Name: huey
Comment: in terms of passes being given, i must say, i would certainly give one to sharpton based on these 4 people alone...his follow through was awsome. sean bell, the jena 6, don imus and finally Gernarlow Wilson...great work al, great work, u and baiseden really stepped up to the plate.
Name: HarrisThomas
Comment: rho_dog2, your works speak to the heart of what we have seen from TS: to pretend to be neutral and then be so unashamed anti Obama was insulting
Name: mamacita22
Comment: What-eva Tav. Keep it moving. I BEEN thru wit'cha. You are just background noise. You are as irrelevant at the old dude at the club...as irrelevant as Jesse Jackson, Julian Bond and any other haters. Say it with me, Tav...Ob-so-lete.
Name: HarrisThomas
Comment: hey, huey, co-sign you on your Rev. Sharpton comments that he has stepped up in some critically important instances . . . . . he makes himself irrelevant when he attempts to function in a self-selected manner as our spokesperson . . . . . I wonder whether Rev. Sharpton has come to understand that we really do appreciate it when his efforts bring attention to specific instances needing real justice but that we don't necessarily need him in a generic capacity as our spokesman
Name: ss69054
Comment: Queeniebunz> I am with you 100%!!! I am a Scorpio as well!!
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: Queenie..I'll try to find them for you. I remember Okelly writing about soem of it after he didn't attend MLK's b-day celebration in Memphis.
Name: rho_dog2
Comment: TGEN, so that it is not implicit, let me be clear; I have always thought he was self promotion. Look at the stage of all of his events, his name is larger than the titles of the event. Concerning his books, typically they are compilations of other people's writing (other than to one on his life). I do agree the true issue was how fair he was. professo285 – The big deal he made about the conference was another example of him being self serving. For example if it was so important to have everyone at the conference, why not have the debates and conference at the same time. If the date and location for the debates were set then move your conference. No body got two chances at these people, but for some reason he thought he was important enough that all the candidates were to arrange their calendars around him twice
Name: huey
Comment: huey's sidebar:, im surprised eur has not run this article so leave it to huey, i luvs me some beautiful donna, gorgous woman with a beatuful mind, but i digress: October 7, 2008 Donna Brazile Has Her Eye on the Future Wow. Donna Brazile, the Democratic pundit, Al Gore campaign manager, and former Clinton staffer, spoke out forcefully against those who would seek to divide the American people in their quest to win an election. I’m gonna say it and get it off my chest, because for the next 30 days, I’m gonna be the best Catholic woman ever….As a child who grew up in the segregated Deep South, we’ve come so far in this country….But I remember when I used to get on the bus: my mother would tell me, “Donna, when you get on the bus, you and your brothers go all the way to the back, and don’t look at anybody.” We have changed. This is a more tolerant, open, progressive society. And yet, we’re having this conversation because [Obama] is biracial. He spent nine months in the womb of a white woman. He was raised…by his white grandparents…He got out of school and went to Harvard, and all of a sudden he’s “uppity” and there’s something wrong with him? What is wrong with us?…You can vote against him, but don’t ever put me in the back of the bus. I’m not going to the back of the bus! I’m not going to be afraid! My black skin does not make me inferior! And may I add: being a female does not make me dumb! …Don’t let people trick you, and distract you and divide you…Don’t let no one take us back! Because many of us are not going back—we’re going forward! And come with us! Donna, baby, I am with you. Not going backward, no matter what, no way, no how.
Name: Stephanie
Comment: WHATEVER! **YAWN** Who would ever admit they're a hater???
Name: huey
Comment: Stephanie --does part time hata count? cause if it does im that....
Name: Stephanie
Comment: OMG...Last night I had this weird %*$ dream. I dreamed last night that during the debate, John McCain just went completely off and was saying no ni@@er needs to be president and if I'm elected, I'm sending all your black azzes back to the plantation. Then BO says, you white bas@tard wtf are you calling a nugga? It was crazy, then John McCain realized what he had done and had to be escorted off the stage...
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: http://thoughtmerchant.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/my-tho ughts-on-barack-obama-ask-cornel-west/--------NEwsweek article after the SOTBU: http://www.newsweek.com/id/33156/page/1---Criticism of Obama's convention speech: http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/200808/200 80828_drsjuliannemalvea.html
Name: Stephanie
Comment: TGen, so true...so true...
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: -Herbs...I'm here, just lurking. What piece were you referring to specifically that I wrote? I'll pull it up if need be.
Name: Stephanie
Comment: The real sad part is most of those in elected offices that are like us and the self appointed stars of the civil rights movement refuse to embrace the change that is about to come. I think the real reason is because those elected officials like us and the self appointed stars of the civil rights movement are ignorant and have so many hidden agendas. Whereas BO is educated and has sincerity for all Americans. How can you not support truth in the form of your own???
Name: ss69054
Comment: I think that because BO's background is much different from a typical black those same folk tried to discredit him because he wasnt really a part of the civil rights movement and social justices and it makes them kinda bitter in their eyes to see the phenomenal that was birth during his campaignn...and the gears shifted in BO's favor... so now that he whooped Billary in the races here they all come jumping on his bandwagon...talk about two-face!!!
Name: Quanli
Comment: Stephanie, I think you alluded to the real problem: too many are comfortable lining their own pockets and protecting their position. Change equals uncertainty.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: huey Comment: well i wished mo would have asked him to explain why tavis in his own words on his pbs show tuesday night "gave mccain the benefit of the doubt" when he referred to senator obama as "that one", the same way he said he "gave the benifit of the doubt" to ross perot when he said "you people". considering the viseral manner in which mccain and pailin have run their campaign why does he feel mccain deserves the benefit of ANY ones doubt and that mccain didnt have the worst of intentions by referring to the senator as "that one". give me a break tavis. u are sounding really full of sh88 these days. _____________ Huey, the my interview with Tavis took place before the debate. Unable to do so for the interview. In discussions I had with him yesterday (paraphrasing), Tavis is comfortable enough in how well he knows McCain personally to believe that the remark wasn't racially motivated...in the same way Perot's remark wasn't racially motivated. The remark by McCain though arrogant and arguably ignorant...was not in his (Tavis') estimation necessarily racially motivated (again paraphrasing Tavis). All racism may be based in ignorance but not all ignorance may be based in racism. That's what he meant by giving someone the benefit of the doubt. I hope that answers your question...
Name: huey
Comment: MorrisOKelly ---i never said it was a racist remark, i said based upon the manner in which mccain has run his campain, how could his "that one" comment have been anything less than a put down of my candidate, and that his intentions were certainly suspect at best. i mean come on here, clearly we are coming off of some of the most derogotory rethoric in mccains campaign, how can this snide putdown have been anything else but a putdown. based on that alone it would stand to reason that tavis should NOT have given him a pass. to the contrary he should have asked him to explain himself and asked him to apologize if he offended someone, since tavis "is comfortable enough in how well he knows him". was he just as comfortable with ross perot?
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Huey, I think you need to read between the lines here. Remember in my interview, Tavis explains the nature of his "role" on public television and public radio. It is not to editorialize or to offer any personal analysis. That is left to the guests. Somebody posted the Malveaux and Cornel West response to Obama's nomination acceptance speech. Perfect example. The guests provide their own commentary. Tavis is to moderate the discussion. It's not for Tavis to "get in anybody's behind" on his TV show or radio show from a personal opinion standpoint. He can offer it up for discussion and guests can weigh in.
Name: huey
Comment: MorrisOKelly ---oh but quite to the contrary my friend. i have followed tavis's career since its inception and i must say. i have read all of tavis' books and have been to several of the black power rangers seminars.he is not the same brother that i first came to know and luv. something shifted when barack came on the scene. although he may not explicitly editorilize as u say, he will certainly direct the topics toward and end conclusion. and in the case that u mention, i watched that show and he was certainly the field general. we both know he cornel and malvaux have a close relationship, i saw the interview and watched him lead both to the end that they all agreed upon in my opinion. here is an excerpt. hate to eat up too much electronic paper but here goes:
Name: huey
Comment: Dr. Julianne Malveaux: Good to be here, Tavis. Dr. Cornel West: It's a blessing. Tavis: Doc, let me start with you. Two docs - Dr. Malveaux, let me start with you. So much hype; so much build-up on this clearly historic night, historic moment. Did he deliver? Malveaux: Not at all. My heart's broken, actually. I hoped to hear more about Dr. King. As we've talked about before we came on, I hoped to hear more about the poverty numbers, about the third anniversary of Katrina, but also hoped to have this brother hit one out of the park. We have been treated this week to phenomenal speeches. Hillary Clinton was incandescent. I think she did everything she was supposed to do. Bill Clinton, we all went into Bill's speech, President Clinton's speech with apprehension, knowing of all the rumors of tension, and yet he did exactly what he had to do. He said have you ever heard about inexperience, he's too young? That was me. He made the connect that everybody wanted him to make. And so you know the tableaux being set up, and it's almost as if this great master rhetoritician who had us spellbound in 2004 stumbled. But beyond stumbling, that he could not mention the name of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., that Dr. King was reduced to some preacher from Georgia, is just a disappointment. Tavis: Dr. West, did he try too hard? West: Well, I think part of the problem is is that it's hard to ignore history in memory, and when you do, you're not empowered as you should. Because we do want to acknowledge the degree to which this is a historic moment, unprecedented - Black man, nominated to be presidential candidate of the Democratic Party. We salute Brother Barack, we salute the Democratic Party, all of those who've struggled. Myself, I spent a whole lot of time trying to make sure the brother gained the nomination, and I will continue to fight to gain the election. But at the same time, it's clear that when you run from history, you run from memory, it's hard to be empowered to change history to create a better future and to build on memory so that this becomes a great memory itself in the future. Tavis: Unpack what you mean by that for a moment. You say run from history, run from memory. You mean what? West: Well, I mean no mention of Martin, no mention of the Black freedom movement. It made Sister Hillary to talk about Harriet Tubman. Malveaux: Come on. West: Feeling it, you see? But it's not just mention of Martin, but it's a mention of all of those who struggled so much and sacrificed so much, understanding the weight of the legacy of White supremacy in America, and seeing this Black man, now a nominee of the Democratic Party? That's a beautiful thing.
Name: huey
Comment: Tavis: But Dr. Malveaux - West: It needs to be at least acknowledged. Malveaux: But he couldn't use the terms White supremacy. West: No, he don't have to do - I can use that. He doesn't need to use that. Malveaux: No, but he - West: But he should be able to acknowledge and affirm all of the sacrifice that has gone in for him to be where he is. Malveaux: What I'm saying is while he didn't have to use the terms White supremacy, he could have said Fannie Lou Hamer. He could have said Fanny - you can invoke, you can throw a card on the table. Tavis, one of the things that he did do - let's look at what he did do. He did lay out his policy agenda. West: Right. Malveaux: He did make it clear what he was about. He did talk about what he was going to do, and so we'll give him credit for that. I think he also was very noble in what he said he would not do with McCain, in terms of talking about not going around with politics of personal destruction, he would not make patriotism a partisan issue. I think those were very important lines to have. But we have memorable lines that came out of Michelle's speech, that came out of Hillary Clinton's speech, they came out - what do we have from that? Not a whole lot; and it's almost as if what Reverend Jackson has said, as if there's a baton that had been passed from Dr. King, Reverend Jackson, to Barack Obama. I think Reverend Jackson has been very gracious in talking about the passing of the baton. But I think the brother dropped the historical baton, if he carried the policy (unintelligible). Tavis: If he had done what Drs. Malveaux and West suggest that he should have done, might he have been accused of being too Black? I can hear some Black folk watching right now, say, "But Dr. Malveaux, Dr. West, you don't get it. He can't be the Black president. We know what this day is all about, but he can't put that out there like that on this night."
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: Okelly I think you wrote an article or some'n about Taqvis responding to the criticism he's gotten about his Obama remarks. Or hell, I could've made it up..lol I'm all for Tavis feeling as if because he has a personal connection w/McCain that he isn't inclined to believe his statement was racist. I wonder how he felt about McCain's decision to not participate in his presidential forum..what was his motivation there. IMO tavis seems to think that his public commentary shouldn't be met w/opposition since he's providing intellectual discourse about issues all blacks should be concerned about. McCain may very well, like the Clintons, be race-baiters and not necessarily racists. Many blacks who knew Clinton felt that his wasn't being racist. But, when Clyburn tells you to clamp down and u don't..then you are subject to the forces of nature. Same w/Tavis, people were telling him how his commentary came across..and he persisted. *shrugging* Hell, people had no problem believing the worst about Obama and his bitter comments or Michelle's "for the first time" and they continue it to this day when neither of those statement compare to a direct attack like McCain/Palin have done.
Name: huey
Comment: so in conclusion mo'kelly, without the benifit of seeing this interview live, one can certainly watch as the field general lead the players right to the end zone for a touch down on how my candidate failed to mention dr. king. as if in order to be acceptable with the black diaspora the candidate must pump his black power fist in the air and yell all power to the people. that my friend is not neccessary. i luv dr. king as much as anyone, but i dont feel it neccessary for people to scream his all time just to be considered "viable" or to not be considered "selling out". as a matter of fact, during that same speech my candidate did in fact mention dr. king. he just didnt do it by name.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: I agree Huey, he does at times let his "self" slip through on occasion. But it's clear that people "want" Tavis (either) to be an advocate for Obama, and he's never advocated for anyone. Or they think he should have nothing critical to say about or even critique Obama in this process (connected to the distinct possibility of him winning). There's a double-standard at play here. Conceivably, Colin Powell (or Condi Rice) could've been in this same position (Condi in a VP capacity) and it's unlikely that Black people would have been as gung ho about blinding supporting either. I doubt people would have been "critical" of those who might have been "critical" or critiqued Powell or Rice on the merits of how their political platforms affect African-Americans. In fact, Black people likely would've countered their candidacies STRICTLY on the merits of their policies being NOT in line with 'us.' That type of discussion shouldn't halt merely because Obama is a Democrat. This really doesn't have anything to do with Tavis, this is me speaking. We as Black folks have yet to learn how to disagree philosophically in the political space. I personally don't agree with many of Barack's stances, policies and proposed programs. I'm going to vote for him as he's clearly the better choice than McCain. But you'll NEVER hear me say some bullshyt about getting out of the way because Obama is our best chance at a Black president or that he shouldn't be accountable to Black people in the same way he's accountable to unions, Latinos, gay people et al. He's not running for the presidency of La Raza, SEIU or any other "organization/voting block" but he's still being held accountable to get their votes. The same should be true with us. It's ok to disagree philosophically on issues and be willing to vote for someone. It's time to mature politically people.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: And in the way I may not agree with everything Barack has to say and his policies, I'm still comfortable with supporting him. The same should be true in the analysis of Tavis. We should be able to philosophically disagree with him and support him at the same time. To allege someone is a hater, jealous, etc. only displays political immaturity. The issues are far more complex than just voting for the Black man we like. Barack becoming president in and of itself doesn't improve the lot of the whole of African-Americans unless his policies are consistent with the issues which most affect us.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Name: musbdherbs Comment: Okelly I think you wrote an article or some'n about Taqvis responding to the criticism he's gotten about his Obama remarks. Or hell, I could've made it up..lol I'm all for Tavis feeling as if because he has a personal connection w/McCain that he isn't inclined to believe his statement was racist. I wonder how he felt about McCain's decision to not participate in his presidential forum..what was his motivation there. _________________ I know for a fact that he was %*$!ed and personally disappointed at/with McCain. He thought that McCain of those who didn't show up would've have shown up. For the record, McCain did come on Tavis' public radio show in the weeks after SOBU, and has not been on Tavis' TV show since 2005. Barack has been on both Tavis' TV and radio shows since he's announced his candidacy. So it would be factually inaccurate that he "favors" McCain if that is what you or others might be thinking.
Name: huey
Comment: MorrisOKelly --nor will u hear me say that i am voting for the senator because he is our best hope at getting a black potus in office. i work for the candidate because of his principles. but back to tavis. i wrote a letter to tavis, never heard back but i wrote. i wont speak for everyone else but i will speak for myself. i purchased and read both convenant books. not written for the laymen in my opinion but "i digress". the problem i have with tavis is that in the covenant, he and his cast of merrymen and merrywomen lay the ground work accountability. and one of the many princilples in the covenant was to hold your elected officials accountable and to get out and vote. well black people did this. they found a candidate that they liked and they voted. in droves. and what does tavis do. he basically slams their candidate because the senator didnt show up to the black power ranger meeting. as if in order to remain on the right side of black folk he HAD to show up, keep in mind the candidate was one of the first to sign up for his debate at, as i recall morgan state university for the democratic debate. it seemed as tavis wanted the senator to keep jumping through tavis' hoops but at the same time not making hillary jump through these same hoops. the senator came on tavis' pbs show. he showed tavis much love. as i recall he was even on tavis' radio show. the senator has been more than extending of himself to tavis but that still wasnt enough for tavis. he began to become increasinly over critical of my candidate and it has continued and thats were tavis began to loose credibility with me. a former big tavis enthusiest.
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >Musb - Wow. Just wow. I am floored. I read the transcript of the Tavis show with West and Malveaux and I have to say that I want to pimp slap that woman righ about now. I also read the Newsweek article you gave me and I also want to slap West around a little bit. The problem I have with black leaders is that they attack each other publicly without having a private conversation to feel each other out first. Look at what Obama did - he heard what West said and he called him and schooled him on what he was all about. Why didn't West call him before running off at the mouth? Why did he give fuel to the fire about black people tearing each other down? That's the problem I have. There is no unity. Okay, Smiley, West, Malveaux. We get it. You don't agree with the way Obama is doing things. But my thing is this - if you have the clout to call up Obama and find out what he's really all about, why don't you do that before publicly criticizing him? It makes them look bad and as a people it makes us look very divided. I am not surprised but I am disappointed. Any surprise I would've had ended when I heard Jesse call Obama a n*gga...*crossing West and Malveaux off list of people I admire*
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Queenie...the West/Malveaux commentary was literally 2 minutes after the end of the Obama speech that night. Calling someone was not an option/possibility. In terms of Dr. West, they have had many of those "conversations" before. So again, it would be inaccurate to say that West does not call Obama and discuss such things. He has long been a surrogate for Obama.
Name: huey
Comment: MorrisOKelly ---i have become increasily disallusioned with dr. west. one of my hero's. i have read both "democracy matters" and "race matters" i am lost upon the fact the he felt it neccessary for the candidate to invoke dr.king by name in his acceptance speech. i would have thought with all of his intellect that he would realize that to constantly wear our blackness on our shoulder is neccessary. it would seem being the forward thinker that he is that this can oftentimes turn of a certain demograpic of the power base. sometime less is more. so im struggling with dr. west right now.
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >MoKelly - with all due respect, you are kind of biased about all of this. I understand why and all but I think your defense of Smiley is kind of irrelevant because of your bias. I believe as others seem to that Smiley IS a "hater". I believe he IS jealous that Obama stole his thunder and is mad that Obama didn't do what Smiley thought a black candidate should do. I will also address the issue of Powell and Rice. Just like black people in Maryland wrote off that knucklehead Steele, black folk really don't consider Powell or Rice to have anything to do with progressing the black community. Someone may refute that but, hey, that's my take on it. As such, we are not going to hold them accountable to the black community because neither of them stand up FOR the black community. I would personally be SURPRISED to hear either of them speak out on black issues. I think Powell would be less of a surprise but I daresay to most, they are both in the dictionary under Uncle Tom/Auntie Tomasina right next to the not so honorable Judge Clarence "I don't like my own people" Thomas. But hey, that's my take on all of it.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: I'm going to close with this... Would everyone be jumping up and down for people to "call Clarence Thomas" or "Call Condi Rice" or "call Colin Powell" FIRST if they were on the verge of ascending to the highest office in the free world and we disagreed with them philosophically (as many of us do?) No, we probably wouldn't. So political platforms matter. And if it's not about "just having a Black president" (as evidenced by our distaste for many Black Republicans) then it's about the issues. And if it's about the issues, we can't and shouldn't get out collective a$$es on our shoulders if we are united in blindly supporting a candidate. We've argued for years we're not a monolithic community. So then when this truth bears itself out...don't get brand new on each other. Again, it's ok to philosophically disagree. Nobody here has mentioned one specific platform...they've only mentioned how they didn't like how Tavis "criticized" Obama. No analysis of the issues raised like campaign finance reform, death penalty etc...just didn't like him "criticizing" Obama. That's not politically astute commentary. I specifically don't care for Obama's lack of attention to crime and education issues; which are always connected to the economy. Domestic policy is always more than just the economy. But folks here are most concerned with who supports who and why they should get out of the way. Not ONE issue discussed. And that's my point.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Queenie...I have no problem with you accusing me of being biased...as long as you don't have any problem with me accusing you of being factually inaccurate about these issues. You "believing" Tavis is jealous and a hater is not a compelling political argument. You disagreeing with those who don't blindly support Obama is not a compelling political argument. You've got to offer more than your gut feeling in terms of how Black people should support Obama or other Black candidates. I've made the comparison as to how and why we don't support Black Republicans...because of the issues they represent. But in these discussions of supporting Obama...no issues are discussed. That's just a statement of fact, irrespective of my connection to Tavis.
Name: huey
Comment: morris, i dont know who these people are u are referring to that are voting for barack because he is black. i thought u were speaking directly to the three people in the forum right now. and i have never heard that said from them in any context in this forum. im sure those types are out there but u wont find many in this eur forum.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Queenie: "black folk really don't consider Powell or Rice to have anything to do with progressing the black community. Someone may refute that but, hey, that's my take on it." ------------------ You just proved my point. So it matters where candidates stand on African-American issues. It matters what they plan to do about these issues. So in discussing Obama...keep the issues in the forefront of the discussion, not whether someone is a hater, jealous or other. Apply the same litmus test in terms of Obama. And don't get thin-skinned when other people (both Black and White) do too. That litmus test doesn't apply any less because you "like" Obama.
Name: huey
Comment: morris...and in closing, to your comment:"Again, it's ok to philosophically disagree. Nobody here has mentioned one specific platform...they've only mentioned how they didn't like how Tavis "criticized" Obama"---if u read my comments u will find that i in fact did mention specific platforms.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Huey... My commentary is directed at EUR in general and beyond. This has been a long-standing discussion in the blogosphere, not just the 3 people here and now.
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >MoKelly - I don't care when they gave their comments. They should've thought it through before spouting off at the mouth criticizing another black person. I read the transcript. I was like, this woman is actually upset that Obama didn't make people cry? She is critical because he didn't pull out his history book and name names of black leaders? And think on this - she mentioned that Hillary at least mentioned Harriet Tubman. Wouldn't it be accurate to assume that that was calculated to garner the black vote for the next election? This issue of him not being black enough because he didn't pull out his Black Power handbook and start naming names is ludicrous. So I stand by what I say. I have always been disappointed in my people and their penchant for not standing publicly in unity. This is a historical issue and not just a current one in 2008. Even Malcolm X in his autobiography lamented his decision to stand opposed to MLK. Even he saw the error of his ways. This has been ongoing throughout our history. Madame CJ Walker had to twist BT Washington's arm to acknowledge her and let her help the black community. Ida B Wells-Barnett had to fight to be heard. BTW and DuBois had an ongoing battle about who was right. Yet there was no real discussion. If these ego-maniacs had sat their happy azzes down and talked to come to some kind of collective agreement on how we as a race would progress, we'd be much further along than we are. This has always been a problem and the fact that it's still a problem in 2008 in our community is perplexing.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Yes, you did Huey...I stand corrected...you did mention a specific platform. And in truth, you've been less emotional about this than most. I find you to be the exception to the rule. I would never %*$ess someone's political argument and include words like hater, jealous and such. Either the critique has merit or it does not.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: MoKelly - I don't care when they gave their comments. They should've thought it through before spouting off at the mouth criticizing another black person. __________ You just played yourself. What does his COLOR have to do with this. Would you say the same before you just criticized Powell and Rice? Contradiction.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: The point is Queenie, you see their critique/criticism as "harmful" to Obama's campaign. Yet you conveniently omit the content of it in your analysis. You lead with your distaste for it, because it "impacts" his campaign. Again, we're not a monolithic people. I guess they should just step aside, because it's not "cool" to critique Obama.
Name: Calidee
Comment: Wow, I'm so disappointed by how harsh some of you are on Tavis. LOOK AT HIS TRACK RECORD. Doesn't that count for something? Tavis appeared to be harder on Barack than the other candidates because the majority of Black people are supporting Barack. He doesn't have to say a lot of negative things about Clinton or McCain because we are willing to talk about why Clinton and McCain aren't good candidates. But we are less willing to talk about Obama's short comings. We are giving Barack a pass when we are unwilling to respectfully disagree with people who criticize him. We are giving Barack a pass when we expect all Black people to support him. I think Tavis is trying to place himself in the middle. We need people in the middle. I applaud Tavis for not giving an endorsement. The moment you publicly endorse a candidate you can't place yourself in the middle.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: IN the final analysis Queenie, you would've not held them to the same standard if it had been Colin Powell accepting the Republican nomination. Critique then would've been acceptable, despite the fact that Powell is a PROUD Black man.
Name: huey
Comment: MorrisOKelly --no problem, i have been a follower or both smiley and west for years, but they lost me. hopefully one day they will get me back, but as it stands, i am putting all of my efforts in canvassing, manning phone banks and dispelling propaganda and inuendo for the candidate and next president of the united states of america, barack obama.
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: Morris..of course we want that. That's the same across ethnic/gender/political lines. We fit into all of those groups and so do our opinions. Some of us do believe that nething critical said about Obama is a sin. Some believe that all blacks should support Obama. Some believe that we shouldn't support him just because he's black. Some believe that he needs to speak to our issues more. The operative word here is "some." The difference I would say about the Condi/Colin analogies is that both of them are Repubs and most blacks wouldn't feel inclined to support that ticket anyway. So critiquing those two can be attributed to their policies as republicans..not necessarily their love for blacks. I have agreed that we should question Obama and his policies. But I am aware (as is tavis) that if you do so publicly (considering the historic nature) you risk a backlash. Kathleen Matthews is being villified by the right over her non-support/criticism of Palin. She understood the risk. There is a risk in defending hip-hop or sayig nig ger. More often than not, people are just not interested in an intellectually stimulating conversation about it. So yeah I agree that we have to be more mature..but that sword cuts both ways. Tavis can't implore us to ask the hard questions of Obama as we would any candidate...but then focus the criticism on the black candidate.
Name: HarrisThomas
Comment: everything has already changed because of what Obama has achieved thus far and he did it outside of the old guard civil rights parameters . . . . . . what I see happening is a battle royale started by old guard members of what DuBois called the Talented Tenth and those talented tenth folks are battling to beat down Obama so that most of them can remain in their comfort zones . . . . . win or lose this election, Obama's success is his ability to use the very rules in play without telling folks who make the rules that they have to cut him some slack on the rules: Obama didn't consult the rules makers or the civil rights old guard . . . . . many Obama supporters are charged to the point where they donated money to the man's campaign and they never thought that they would ever do that . . . . . Obama is demonstrating to us the truth of "Yes, We Can" . . . . . West, Smiley, Malveaux, etc. are taken by surprise at what we really can do and they have to either adjust their messages on the paths to black achievement going forward or beat down this stellar achievement as an aberation . . . . . . these people want to slay Obama, "the magic dragon" . . . . . . the future of black America is very much in play
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >MoKelly - so, what I'm really saying is this - the public criticism is what I don't like. Sure. Disagree. No problem. I don't trip off people not supporting Obama. I don't expect everyone to agree with all he does. I don't even do that - we got into is yesterday as to whether he specifically answered the questions and I said he didn't. What I do dislike intensely is that people feel the need to publicly criticize each other and not present a united front to the rest of the country and the rest of the world. THAT is the problem I have with all of this. What is more important? Smiley being able to say "I don't like the way he did ___" or the first black man in the history of this country becoming president. It's about priorities and the ability to do what needs doing for the greater good of our people. Smiley's criticism served no one but himself. His criticism is actually insulting to me because he assumes we won't hold Obama accountable. He assumes we will vote for him just because he's black. He assumes we can't think for ourselves and come to the conclusion that he needs to consider the needs of the black community. That's insulting that he thinks I have to be told those things. So yeah, I do think what Smiley is doing is self-serving. I do.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Tavis can't implore us to ask the hard questions of Obama as we would any candidate...but then focus the criticism on the black candidate. __________ You're right 'Herbs...but your above statement is simply not true. I think we're more agreement overall than not. But your above statement is just not true. I don't know if you listened to the interview or have heard his commentaries over the years but he has gotten in the A$$ of EVERY Democratic nominee/presidential candidate along the way. It may "seem" amplified because Black folks are paying attention to this race FAR more than with Clinton, Gore or Kerry...but it's in my estimation a myth that he's been "harder" on Obama than other candidates. I can PLAY for you all of his commentaries. It's just not true. Now I will say this...and I probably shouldn't put this in print. Tavis and I philosophically disagree all the time. But in supporting Tavis and Barack I apply the same principles. I believe both of their hearts are in the right place. In terms of how Tavis approached the "controversy"...I didn't agree with how he handled it. He made his commentaries, Black people pushed back...he made more commentaries, Black people pushed back more. The content hadn't changed, but the tone/intonation in terms of proving his point had changed. And I think that's where a lot of this "controversy" stems from. Tone.
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: MoKelly - so, what I'm really saying is this - the public criticism is what I don't like. Sure. Disagree. No problem. I don't trip off people not supporting Obama. I don't expect everyone to agree with all he does. I don't even do that - we got into is yesterday as to whether he specifically answered the questions and I said he didn't. What I do dislike intensely is that people feel the need to publicly criticize each other and not present a united front to the rest of the country and the rest of the world. _____ Queenie, you know I love you and this isn't personal to be sure. But the public critique (which is different from criticism) is unavoidable and a necessity in presidential politics. It's not going to change because Barack is in the race.
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >MoKelly - No, I wouldn't expect any of either of them. Just as I didn't expect anything of Michael Steele, former Lt Governor of MD and former candidate for the US Senate. Black people in droves voted for his opponent. Why? 1) Because as Musb said, he's Republican and Md is for the most part always going to go Democrat. and 2) Because all of a sudden, Steele remembered he was black when it was convenient and started to reach for the black vote here in Maryland. Black folk here were like "Whateva. Can't do nuthin fo ya, man" because until then, he forgot he was black. ---> Along those lines - do you expect anything of Clarence Thomas???
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: No, I don't expect anything of Clarence Thomas...but I wouldn't expect anything different in terms of how we come to that conclusion. We don't "expect" anything because we are aware of his platforms, his stance against affirmative action, etc. We don't "like" Thomas in direct connection to his policies. If he were running for president we would diss him on those merits alone. I just wish we'd do the same in %*$essing Barack. Just because he's affiliated with the Democratic party doesn't mean we should be any less diligent in this process.
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: Queenie..yeah so was I. I do understand where they are coming from and I think it represents a problem in our community. There are those (Jessie, Cornell, et. al) who believe that they and their histories are being marginalized by the Obama phenom. Cornell didn't become a surrogate for Obama until after his criticism of Obama not attending King's event in Memphis..and I'm still not sure what sort of surrogate he is although it has been reported that he is a political advisor. More importantly, I find Tavis's take odd that he continues to question Obama's love for the black community when he should be questioning the usual cast of characters that grace his stage every year. They are the ones whose efforts directly impact the black community. They..not Obama are our representatives from districts 'we' elect them too. I watched Tavis interview w/Obama on his show. I can't imagine what question not asked 'then' that needs to be answered now. I can't imagine Tavis or his guests' concerns about what Obama is doing after he sat there on stage at the black and brown forum in Morgan and the one at HU. Calidee..that sword cuts both ways as well. LOOK AT OBAMA'S TRACK record. There is a very small segment of this population who are willing to talk about their respective candidate's shortcomings. Blacks aren't excluded from that norm. If Tavis wanted to be perceived as "moderating" a discussion..he should've included the other candidates.
Name: huey
Comment: MorrisOKelly "I don't know if you listened to the interview or have heard his commentaries over the years but he has gotten in the A$$ of EVERY Democratic nominee/presidential candidate along the way."---and i too my friend have listened to nearly every BET tavis show, nearly every pbs radio show, nearly every pbs tv show and nearly ever npr radio show tavis has done and i see it through i different prism than u. tavis has been overly critical of the candidate. the candidate even offered for his wife michelle to come to the black power ranger forum when he said he couldnt make it. tavis rejected that offer when clearly michelle could have brought plenty to the table. plenty. and im sure the folks would have luved to have had her own the panel. but nope. the gatekeeper says no. no how does that appear to you. its was a zero sum game with tavis. and it was insulting to me the viewer. not just because i support the candidate.
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >MoKelly - I hear you but disagree with me if you like but I 100% believe that we should keep it to our community and do it privately. I just do. I believe in unity. Unity does not mean we can't and don't disagree. Unity means we present ourselves as a united front to the world. We are weak as a community historically because of all of this public criticism/critique (whatever you wish to call it) and that's the problem I see here. In the community of women's rights, there is the same divide. There are women who think we should all be lil ole housewives baking cookies and greeting our husbands' with a kiss and his slippers at the front door wearing lingerie. There are also women who think that's ridiculous and we should all be high-powered executives "have it all" and that housewife women are punks. The problem there is the same here. Women need to present a united front and agree to disagree and move forward from there but we don't.
Name: Taurusingr
Comment: Just putting al these housenyggas on blast up in hurr!, (& I said this on the other board) but...is it just me?, or do we hear more about the hip hop nation's contributions to Obama's movement than ALL these so called.."Black Leaders"!?? And when you DO hear something from one of them?, it's some "Tavis Smiley hatin B.S."!! See, just look "the other way" sometimes?, & you'll catch ALL the shyt they don't want yo as-s to catch! "This one" & all the rest are....HOUSENYGGAS! One!
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: OKelly I'll concede to not knowing how much Tavis went after Hillary. If you have them, sure I would like to read them. It seems to me that most of his criticism have been directed towards Obama. I agree that because he's affiliated w/the party we shouldn't be any less diligent. I pretty sure that most of us are wondering "well damn, why u pick THIS time" to be diligent when we have not in prior elections. This is a different sort of election and the rules have changed a bit. We didn't support Sharpton, Braun and 'em for a reason and they were black. There's an underlying message that we are supporting Obama because he's black and that's what I've gotten from Tavis. Not because he's a democrat..but because he's black. As w/any "firsts" people will always be more willing to give their 'first' a pa.ss and Tavis fully understands that.
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: BTW..Cosby "meant" well but the way he decided to conduct his campaign has been criticized. That's a chance he took and he saw the results. Same w/Tavis. Let a Jew speak out NOT in favor of Israel. They may "mean" well...but there's a backlash.
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >MoKelly - and lest you bring up the speech on Father's Day, well, I have mixed feelings about that. I really do. He was right. Just as Cosby is right in what he says. I am ambivalent about how to deal with problems in the black community. I agree with Cosby but I don't like his tone. Along those lines, I'd rather see a sermon than hear one. I'd rather see an initiative to increase black fathers' involvement in the lives of their children than hear Cosby rant about it and talk at them. I believe Obama gave black fathers props but said they have a long way to go in being better fathers. Again, I think I'd rather see action than talk. I think people react better to the positive. As a former teacher, I learned that people respond better to encouragement than criticism. Tell a kid he's a loser because he didn't do his homework - not effective. Tell a kid he is smart and can do better and that he should try harder to reach his full potential, that he won't reach if without studying - more effective. It's all in the tone.
Name: HarrisThomas
Comment: Taurus, the battle for the black political mind does not remotely include consideration of members of the hip hop nation . . . . . the talented tenth dissects what the hip hop nation thinks only as is necessary
Name: Taurusingr
Comment: HT: I hear you! But they in up dissecting themselves! Ya dig? sml!
Name: Taurusingr
Comment: HarrisThomas: Ahh, the "housenyggas" that is! LOL!
Name: HarrisThomas
Comment: essentially, Taurus, those folks like thinning out their group by eating non-conforming young and making serial pontifications about AAs as though blacks do not operate at all levels simultaneously . . . . . when these folk focus on hip hop contributions it is mostly about negative imagery
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: Huey - "tavis has been overly critical of the candidate. the candidate even offered for his wife michelle to come to the black power ranger forum when he said he couldnt make it. tavis rejected that offer when clearly michelle could have brought plenty to the table. plenty." ___________ But see, this is EXACTLY what I mean. The forum was ONLY to be for candidates, not surrogates, not wives. In its original incarnation, Tavis would ask questions of the CANDIDATES. Otherwise anyone and everyone would send surrogates, AND EVERYONE offered. It wasn't about who would offer "plenty" it was about and always about having specifically the candidates at THAT SOBU as discussed for more than two years. So if you're critical of Tavis for not accepting Michelle Obama, know that he turned down every 'other' surrogate offered from every other candidate. It wasn't about Michelle or anyone other than the candidates. And like BARACK said about McCain who wanted to postpone the first debate...BARACK was the one who said "we both have big planes with our names on them" meaning they could be at more than one event in different states on the same day. Or even appeared via satellite... Just FYI...
Name: Stephanie
Comment: Queenie, what was the deal with that guy Michael Steele?
Name: Taurusingr
Comment: HarrisThomas: YEP!! And like the negativity isn't THEIR fault!! I loved it when David Banner shut it down on that special BET did "Hip HOP vs. America"! And of ALL people?, so did T.I.! They were responding to Stanley Crouch & said/asked...HTF do you think WE got here!?? We are a product of "YOUR NON activity"!! Now "that's" not exactly what he said, but the message/point non the less! And ole boy?...had NOTHING to say! Holla!
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >I tend to think the "Hip Hop Community" cancels itself out by the ignorant product they put on the market. It is hard to lend any credence to someone supporting Obama or anyone else when their claim to fame is a collection of songs about whoes in different area codes and lessons in "shaking your money maker". I get it that Luda appeals to the younger set and all but honestly I wish he didn't. I really want to take him and all of the other "Explicit Lyrics" crew and stand them in a line and wash their mouths out with soap like my ma used to do to me and my brothers when we dropped a 4-letter word. I like their music. I think the way they put words and together is brilliant at times but I just can't stand the nasty words, the misogyny and the gratuitous sexual and violent situations they rap about. For that reason, I personally cannot take them seriously as endorsing any candidate for anything but "Most Booty Popping in a Video" or "Most Nasty Words in a Rap Song" awards. Yeah, I'm an old fuddy-duddy but hey, that's me.
Name: huey
Comment: MorrisOKelly --i understand that it was just for candidates. that is clear. the reason i was personally critical of this particular exchange between the candidate and tavis is because of the manner in which he handled it. the senator in good faith stated to tavis that he himself could not make it to the black power rangers meeting, but asked if it was ok that michelle come on his behalf. this is where it got ugly in my opinion. tavis had been for weeks, calling folks out on the tjms who had not yet responded to his "demand" to be at the black power rangers forum. keep in mind barack had done both tavis' talk show and his debate prior to, of which one or two rethuglicans showed up for the rethuglican debate. so, it was at this point that he in my opinion, on the tjms began to create a climate of escapsim on the part of the candidate. THATS where it got ugly. its not so much that tavis was being overly critical in this particalar case but that he created a unhealthy climate right on the tjms of barack not "answering tavis call". thats when it got ugly. thats how it went to down. so what we have here is a timeline of various situations where tavis has either shown himself to be overly critical or unyielding. its not just one but both. if i had more time i could point out a laundry list of line items.
Name: Taurusingr
Comment: HarrisThomas: Remember what I said yesterday!?...Don't Do It!!! Let it breathe! LOL!!!
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >Stephanie - Michael Steele - the one who gave a speech at the RNC, was the Lt Governor of MD under Erhlich. He really did nothing for us. He was the token of all tokens. People saw that. When he decided to run for US Senate, e'rybody here was like, nah. He was quite sneaky about it, too. He went around to PG County and Mont. County and gave speeches and tried to garner the black vote here. Here's the thing that got me. His campaign signs were blue and they didn't have "Republican" on them. It was almost like he was trying to disguise/hide his political party in an effort to deceive blacks and get the black vote. People saw through him like a plate glass window. The white Democrat won comfortably. People in the MD/DC/VA area are too in the know to fall for the okey-doke that he tried to pull on us. Silly rabbit...
Name: Taurusingr
Comment: HarrisThomas: Hey...just "whistle"!! LOL!!!
Name: fanteeking
Comment: Queeniebunz: Sumpin' you just posted hit a tender chord in my soul and I just had to get up into yo' bizness, if I could. You stated that we BLACK FOLKS should present a united front and not attack one another in a public forum (air our dirty linen for the world to see). How right you are. I worked in public service and did African slavery research in Ethiopia, Ghana and Brazil, Bahia Salvador de todos os Santos. I lived in a heavily JEWISH neighbor when I published my research. My committee was composed of JEWS of various religious orientations. Some were Orthodox (Lubavitch Hasidem), Conservative, Reformed and anti-Zionist. And many HATED each other because of their religious beliefs and fought like cats and dogs BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. BUT, as soon as Israel and Syria got in a war, those Jews closed ranks and raised 10 million dollars overnite. They kept their bickering out of the public's eye and galvanized their forces when the situation demanded it. You are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CORRECT in your ANALYSIS and I wanted to shout that out to ya!!!
Name: fanteeking
Comment: Queeniebunz: I forgot to add that one member was a liberal Jew who would go to Hackensack, New Jersey with me on Main Street or Hackensack Ave. and help me eat some of my Bar B Q rib tips and pig feet. Now thatz Liberal ain't it? LOL!! We'd wash it down with a Bud and listen to Nicki Giovanni and Gil Scott Herron.
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >fanteeking - that's all I'm saying. We don't do that. Our "race men" want to pontificate and be seen and heard more than they want to progress our people. I find that to be very sad - particularly because we haven't learned from our history. It happened w/Garvey/ Washington / DuBois / Wells-Barnet...then it happened with MLK / Malcolm the SNCC / the Black Panthers. Now it's happening with all of these divisive people. This really upsets me. It really does. Sure, within the black community we are very diverse but why do we have to present such division to the rest of the country and the rest of the world? That's all I'm saying...
Name: fanteeking
Comment: Here in Naptown, one of my runnin' buddies is the great grandson of WEB DuBois. He went to Fisk in Nashville then transferred to University of Accra Legon Campus and has many beautiful stories about Kwame Nkrumah. I'm gonna let him see your post. I'll NEVER forget seeing Dr. DuBois on TV before he died and saying, "I'm entering my 94th year and in America, I'm still a N@@@@er" He died in Accra and had the largest funeral procession in the history of that country formerly known as Gold Coast. This was before Dr. Busia, Ignatius Kofi Acheapong or Jerry "the EWE CROOK Rawlings. Dr. Busia's daughter Akoura? played Celie's chilhood friend in Color Purple. She's the one who hollered and cried to Mista and shouted, "Why, Why, Why, WHY!!!" 'member dat?
Name: fanteeking
Comment: Queeniebunz: Remind me to tell you the story about when DuBois first got to Ghana and Nkrumah wanted him and his family to feel at home and tried to get a turkey so they could celebrate THANKSGIVING. The story is so funny.
Name: HarrisThomas
Comment: hey, Taurus, I'm OK, thanks for your suggestions. . . . . there ish is all over cyberspace, so thanks for the reminder to breathe and whistle [um, that's hum for me cause I can't whistle]
Name: musbdherbs
Comment: Queenie...explicit lyrics will never go away..they never have. As long as you have women willing to support these artists in their videos or dancing on a poll..it will never go away. As soon as WOMEN begin to collectively speak out against it..that's when it will go way. It won't happen if you're expecting the men to do it. It just won't. That's like asking men to close down strip clubs or stop making pornos. It won't happen. Until we push corporations to stop promoting it..it won't happen. If we're expecting rappers to just stop...that won't either. Queeni re: Steele...OTOH..Mfume didn't win and his was black.
Name: Taurusingr
Comment: HarrisThomas: LOL!! No prob> lady!! You know we gotta distance ourselves from the "crazees"! People from a far....ahh, you know the rests!!! LOL!!!
Name: queeniebunz
Comment: >Musb - I agree with you about the lyrics/"video vixens". For every Keisha Not-a-hoe who won't dance around the pole in the video and won't do the booty pop, you have Laquisha Thongalicious who will grab grab the pole and start popping it. I get that. I understand. It's just disappointing. As for Mfume - I don't think Mfume didn't win because he didn't get the black vote as was the case with Steele. To my recollection, Mfume had some skeletons in the closet. Correct me if I'm wrong about that but I believe he had too much negative baggage. I just looked Mfume up on Wikepedia. Interesting stuff. His real name is Frizzell Gray. Yikes. I'd change my name, too. It sounds like a hair care product. I know Wikepedia can be questionable but it seems to be in line with a lot I already know. It didn't really go into his loss of the primary to Cardin. Interesting. I will say this - I don't think his affiliation with the NAACP helped him at all. Since all of the scandal before Mfume, the organization has never recovered, in my opinion.
Name: Quanli
Comment: Put this way, if he had named everyone on down the line from the kingdoms of Nubia to Shirley Chisolm (sp?) he would have been accused on pandering. I give it to the folks in Kenya, when Corsi tried to gain entry the other day he was promptly deported. Unity!
Name: barnone
Comment: HUEY> thanks 4 that excerpt. and i think west made a very valid point n saying when u run from history u run from memory. i think unfortunatley AA people r often caught between a rock and hard place n that we must balance embracing our history and our blackness while not coming off as militant or harping on the past. i feel 1 of the reasons we as a people find ourselves trapped n this paradigm, is bcuz we have allowed for yt amerikkka to define 4 us nstead of us defining 4 ourselves and not being concerned with "what will they think" as well as positioning ourselves on the defense.
Name: ladybyrd
Comment: TGen> I agree, Tavis is NOT at the forefront of anything. I think Mo'Kelly was/is trying to pump Tavis back up, but it won't work. Tavis has really compromised his position. I think that he's intelligent, but he endorsed a candidate and it's was obvious. He used his show and his power to try and sway African American's to go against another African American. Now, on the other tip, I don't think it warrants ANYONE calling him a housen*gger or a "N" in general. We are bigger than that, so let's act like it!
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