Sun, Nov 22, 2009
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Name:
McNasty
Comment: El DeBarge has 10 kids? no wonder he smokes crack - only way to forget you got mouths to feed and can't do a damn thing about it!
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: O'kelly..articles such as this (as w/the last one) are several rungs beneath your intellectual capacity.
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Name:
xavixavi
Comment: no comment needed. Sad but funny. Mo you are just wrong.
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Name:
Angel
Comment: Wow Mo - This gives new meaning to kicking a man when he's down...
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: Who's Eddie Kane Jr?
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Name:
NYCsoul
Comment: El has a disease called drug addiction. I find it hard to laugh at someone in this predicament. It's just plain tragic and sad. I'm sure if one of El's kids were read your column, they would not take too kindly to it. After all, he is still 'daddy' to them regardless of what you think of him. Show some compassion, Mo.
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: Compassion? You make CHOICES. You CHOOSE to pick up a crack pipe. You CHOOSE to go on that fast walking mission to find the next rock. You don't CHOOSE Sickle Cell, MS, cancer...it chooses you. A disease? If lack of self control and determination is a "disease" well I guess it is. You CHOOSE to make a public spectacle of yourself, you CHOOSE to be clowned.
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: What's tragic and sad is that he has kids that have to call this train wreck of a man, dad. What's tragic is that he has family members that probably have to lock up their valuables when he's around.
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Name:
NYCsoul
Comment: YLawdY> I don't see how clowning somebody is supposed to help them. I have never heard children say "I think I'll be a crackhead and make a spectacle of myself in front the world". People think that because somebody is famous, they stop being human beings and that any prior traumas can be overcome with money. The fame only makes whatever prior problems a person has escalate. El's mother came out with a book where she talk about how her husband beat her and sexual abused the kids. Why do you think that mostly all of the Debarge children had substance abuse issues? How do folks like El recover from that if you don't know you have a problem or in denial of it? Tough love is one thing but to humiliate people because of their 'choices' is not right. I don't believe in kicking somebody when they're down regardless of their 'choices'. To each's own.
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: They are supposed to help themselves first. A crackhead KNOWS they are a crackhead and at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions despite what you may have gone tnrough as a child. A bad childhood should not forever be a crutch for being f*cked up. Clowning doesn't help him, but I'm sure he's not reading MoKelly for help. In the meantime we can be amused. JMO
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: YLAWD...u don't have to guess. It has been noted throughout much discourse that addiction of any kind is a disease. BTW, people CHOOSE to overdose on prescription drugs and die. Many women CHOOSE to stay w/abusive men and end up being murdered by the. Neither group CHOOSE to be clowned nor have their troubles/death laughed at. 100% agree w/NYC.
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Name:
NYCsoul
Comment: YLawdY> If you have a stomach ache, you find something to take the pain away. If you have a headache, you take an aspirin to take the pain away. If you have a broken heart due to childhood sex and physical abuse, what do you do? What some of us do is turn to drugs and alcohol. Black communities frown at therapists and psychiatry for the fear of being labelled 'crazy' or 'weak'. So some of them self-medicate with controlled substances to 'heal' what's hurting them. You don't have to agree with me but I don't see the point of ridiculing somebody when they are at their lowest point.
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: muds...you are correct re: abuse and suicide. Having dealt with substance abuse issues within my own family, I have zero sympathy or tolerance. That makes me come across as insensitive and that is an accurate impression on this issue. Addiction as a disease is IMO a cop out, an out for not doing better. I am addicted to cigarettes, but it isn't a disease, it's a lack of willpower and discipline. I know this because I've quit before and made a choice to start smoking again. El doesn't get a pass.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I'm sorry...but the "disease" of addiction is not looked upon in the same way as "disease" in the classic sense.
It's a cop out.
Don't make fun of obese people because they have "food addictions." Whatever.
"People with diseases deserve compassion."
Heard it all before. Yeah, people with addictions to money rob, kill and steal.
Oh well, y'all will just be %*$!ed with me this week. There are only two scenarios here. El needs an intervention and his family has not...that's on them.
Or, El's family has staged an intervention and El refuses to save himself...that's on him.
Pick...one or the other.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: YLAWD..while IYO it is a cop out, the fact is that it is an addiction and is treated as such by medical professionals. If you got cancer from your nicotine addiction and ended up dying...i'm sure that you wouldn't expect the death you CHOSE to be used as a point of ridicule...even though your OWN addiction was the cause. El's in jail so I don't know who's asking for him to him gets a pa ss. I think you got my point rather you agree w/it or not.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Being in jail is for his crimes, public ridicule is the issue 'herbs. He's not getting a pass for his CRIMES, but the debate here is about public perception of whether he is a "victim."
The man is a classic abuser of women. He DESERVES to be ridiculed. I'm not going to let his "addiction" obfuscate that fact.
He has PLENTY of arrests for abusing women.
Should we talk about his "addiction" to abusing women? We've had this "compassion" discussion before.
If you abuse women, you will NEVER get a pass from me. His abuse of women wasn't only limited to during his use of crack. Sorry, just not the case.
So if you REALLY want to talk about compassion, let's tell the whole story.
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Name:
ATLGirl
Comment: Co-sign with YLawdy and MOKelly. Addicts make me tired. I have no tolerance. And yes, I've had the requisite experience with them, note I said them (plural,) to feel this way. Keep on clowin' Mo.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Okelly..I would expect you to defend your own article..I mean who wouldn't. Had you talked about his abuse of women as much as him being a crackhead, I would buy your 'now' argument. I'll simply revert to my earlier point about this sort of foolishness is beneath you. It reads like a Wendy Williams interview.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: 'Herbs...since you want to reference my "previous" article which you also said was "beneath" me, I went to great ends to talk about his abuse of women.
So for me to start all over and re-introduce the abuse of women was unnecessary, when this arrest had only to do with crack.
The recurring theme here is (and include the email)...is HE DOESN'T CARE. He doesn't care about who he hurts...he only cares about him.
That's the recurring theme. He doesn't care about him...and neither do I.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: MOK, you think that your article is about abusing women but the selections from Jungle Fever,
Five Heartbeats, and New Jack City don't support the woman abuse point . . . . . you know that a person gets changed for life when she/he decides to introduce legal or illegal substances into their body . . . . . like Gator or Eddie or Pookie, El can't or won't change while he's under the influence of chemical substances . . . . . none of us were in your place, MOK, when El contacted you and we don't know how you handled his threats emotionally: we do know that you are well positioned to provide information to people who may similarly situated about how to be survivors of such threats
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Yes, Harris...a person is "changed for life"...but this is 2008.
Unlike alcohol or nicotine, you have to specifically seek out illegal drugs. You have to make that conscious decision to buy illegal drugs and they're NOT as available as alcohol or nicotine.
You have to go OUT OF YOUR WAY...irrespective of how wealthy you are.
That's like jumping off a building and wanting people to feel sorry for you when you go splat.
There is only ONE end result to drugs...we ALL know this. We ALLLLLLL know this.
I've already addressed the women abuse thing in previous articles, this arrest was for MORE crack. Sorry, I don't feel compassion for that.
If he had gotten high and shot one of your family members wanting more money for another hit...we'll see how "compassionate" you are.
It's funny...the people who've actually had to deal with an addicted family member or members by and large get what I'm talking about. There's no romanticized view of this.
Don't make fun of the woman-abusing crack addict who's been given 15 chances and 8 arrests.
Oh, ok.
I look at El DeBarge in the same light as DMX...
And I think that's more than fair.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: I agree with NYCSoul, Musbdherbs, and HarrisThomas. I guess I get the whole "rift" thing (but a link to the original piece you wrote which prompted Debarge's letter to you, would have been nice), but this article smacks of [emotional] immaturity. What pleasure comes out of seeing someone (even enemies) fall? I won't dog you out MoKelly, but I think you should really read what the aforementioned posters have said, they make great points...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I have read what they've said TGen. How about this? If it's found that the murderer in the case of Jennifer Hudson's family was on drugs (distinct possibility)...
Compassion then?
I don't analyze this in terms of "the crime," I analyze in terms of the drug addict.
If we have "more compassion" for El because he sings, DMX because he raps...that's a problem.
I seriously doubt there's the same level of "compassion" for the addict in your family stealing stuff, tearing up stuff and breaking your family apart.
THAT is the true measure.
I've yet to hear anyone address that.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: MOK, we are blindsided by the up close, in our face nature of substance addiction because of family and friends who are afflicted directly or indirectly via drive shooting and such killings . . . . . I don't want nobody telling me that I don't know what I have personally seen and impacted by with regard to drugged out behavior, nobody . . . . . depending on where one lives, it ain't hard to get the stuff and in too many instances, it's easier to get the drugs than to shop for groceries . . . . . compassion would be not to write an article making fun of a person with drug addicted behaviors: if you must do so, don't splash around attitude because some readers think you are being callous - man up, apologize, and move on
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Name:
MzTee
Comment: MOK...I have family members who were addicted to crack and I get where you're coming from. But, I can also see the other side -- especially, the point of view of the children who are affected as a result of a parent's drug abuse. To those kids 'choice' ain't got a thing to do with it because they don't yet have the mental capability to understand the concept of 'choice'. It's just momma or daddy to them. Trust, I'm NOT sympathizing with El because IT was/is his choice to get high; however, it's NOT the choice of his children to be the brunt of cruel heckling and jokes because of their father's foolishness. Inadvertently, through your article, they are being ridiculed as well.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: MoKelly, surely you realize there is a HUGE interspace between having compassion and making fun of someone. My uncle was an addict for years (THANK GOD he's clean now) and you're right, there came a time, after his numerous stupid antics when a lot of the family exhausted all patience with him, but I'll be danged if anyone laughed at him when he fell down. This whole article reminds me of two little kids playing kickball, they get in a fight over a stolen base or something, one of them runs to a base but trips up and sprains his ankle, and the other little guy falls out laughing and pointing while the other guy is crying for his mommy, lol. It's just...weird, for you, a grown person to be "nanna-booing" like this. Better to concede that than try to make ill-suited comparisons (a multiple murderer to a petty thief? Gimme a break) to prove some silly point. Debarge might be a tool, a real punk, and you don't have to feel sorry for him, but you also don't have to keep your knee on his neck while his life is falling apart. Jmo...
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: No need to apologize for making humorous remarks about a serious subject. I'm pretty sure everybody had a town drunk that was the butt of everyone's jokes. Nobody was trying to keep him down or kick him when he was down. As for his kids, if they're old enough to read MOKelly, they are old enough to deal with the realities of the jerk that is their father. If they're not old enough, no harm, no foul.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: I do notice...nobody wanted an "apology" for DMX.
Get rid of the double-standard, then come ask for the apology.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: HT/TGEN..cybersmacks for both of you. The thing is, Okelly gets our points because they have been stated quite intelligently. He just won't concede which is kewl. But don't try to insult your audience. Most people actually HAVE had someone in their family hooked on drugs and I would bet that most of us speak from a personal attachment to the issue..not just some flip-at-the-mouth sort of thing. You continue to do yourself a disservice by pointing out irrelevant things. No one has asked to feel any compas.sion really. What we have done is talk about this crass article which is "lower than expected from you." "Seeking out illegal drugs" is as easy as stepping outside the liqour store in many n'hoods. Hell, I pa.ss several drug dealers on my way to the liqour store everyday. It is as available as cigarettes. TGEN..great analogy. Great one. Okelly..on to making something else up? Who asked you to 'apologize' for something? You just don't take constructive criticism very well.
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Name:
lovebites
Comment: McNasty i love your. your so funny.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: MOK, I don't read everything on EUR but if you were equally callous with regard to DMX and nobody called you on it, then more power to ya . . . . . do an apology and stop trying to make bad guys out of those of us who are taking you to task in this instance
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Harris...first, I was equally callous to DMX...and nobody had anything to say.
So if anything I've been consistent. And that consistency is EXACTLY the reason why there's no apology forthcoming.
It was appropriate for DMX it's appropriate for El DeBarge.
The only thing that has "changed" is contained in the double-standard.
I was EXACTLY the same way with Whitney. I was EXACTLY the same way with DMX. I am EXACTLY the same way with El. That's about as fair as I can be.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And Harris...I'm not making anybody (other than El) out to be the bad guys here. We disagree, it's not that deep.
But I am reminding everyone of the fact that ROUTINELY folks laughed at DMX. Why El is more "sympathetic" I'm not sure.
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Name:
MzTee
Comment: YLAWDY...in regards to his kids -- yes it is harmful and it is foul. Why do they have to be subjected to folks' crassness and cruelty because of something their father does? Ain't nothing right about that. Why should they have to hang their heads in shame when folks ridicule them because of their father's crackish behavior? Again, ain't nothing right about that. His children are innocent in all of this, but are affected because folks think it's cool to make fun of them and their father because of HIS behavior. Something in which NONE of them have any control over.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: LOL, MOK, I don't even know why I bothered to read your article today because I did not read the others . . . . the treatment in today's article is just plain mean and if you have equally as mean in other instances, then it's about time that you get called on it . . . . . like you said, we agree to disagree
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: MzTee...you're right up until you tune into "Being Bobby Brown" or "Flavor of Love" and he brings his kids on the show.
Adris works in the business and was the one who specifically leaked the information (and made sure her name was mentioned) in the announcement of the Eddie Murphy/Tracey Edmonds "Engagement."
Yes, she's "innocent" in this...she plays the entertainment game like the rest of us. It's not by "chance" her name was mentioned but not any of the other 10.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: So as long as you are consistent, it's not crass? I don't remember your DMX article. I vaguely remember the Whitney article. However, considering that your last El article resulted in him sending you a foolish e-mail, why go there again? So you can get another tit-for-tat going? So you can pat yourself on the back that a has-been artists publicly acknowledged something you said? IMO, it is beneath what you consider yourself to be as a journalist. But then again, you are apparently fine w/solacious journalism..even when it masquerades as entertainment.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: MoKelly, maybe the difference is this seems situation seems more personal than the others in that you've had one-on-one contact with Debarge. In that sense, I guess your taunting seems a bit more cruel. But like HT and Musb stated, it DOESN'T MATTER. Who cares if you taunted others also? The point is your readers are telling you, you crossed a line. Why not just concede that or even the possibility of that instead of offering simple, irrelevant points of contention? Seems like that would be a lot more productive. But I digress, tis your article, say what you want...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: 'Herbs...
I've ALWAYS made the admission that much of my humor is crass...
Here's my latest on DMX
http://mokellyreport.blogspot.com/2008/03/rapper-dmx-e ndorses-hillary-clinton-and.html
On Karrine (Coke Whore - her words) Steffans
http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur28429.cfm
On Whitney
http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur19730.cfm
On Bobby Brown
http://mokellyreport.blogspot.com/2007/03/here-we-go-b obby-here-we-go-clap-clap.html
http://mokellyreport.blogspot.com/2007/05/bobby-brown- homelessand-suing-for.html
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: But not only am I crass...I am CONSISTENT in terms of drug users.
Dallas 'Cokehead' Austin
http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur27298.cfm
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: "IMO, it is beneath what you consider yourself to be as a journalist. But then again, you are apparently fine w/solacious journalism..even when it masquerades as entertainment."
'Herbs...we've had this discussion time and time again. This is an editorial column. If I were writing for the AP or if you look at my NON-Editorial work, that's consistent with "journalism." Go look at my NY Times piece this week...
But in terms of THIS space, it's an entertainment journal with a political slant...to do among many things...entertain. Some weeks silly, some weeks serious. My mandate is that and that only. Some people come here for the serious, others for the silly...but you'll get both and next week I'll likely talk about the election.
But as long as you and others are reading AND commenting...I've done my "job."
If when I write an article for the L.A. times (again)...different journalistic standard and different expectations. If you want a "news item" then check "news" sources. The Electronic Urban Report is an INFOtainment website. The description is apt.
If you want the information about El's arrests (all of them) Wikipedia and AP are available to help you with that. I offer something "slightly" different.
:)
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Name:
MzTee
Comment: MOK...I didn't/don't watch either of those shows and refuse to. And, if I were stupid enough to have had sex, let alone a child, by either of these buffoons, I wouldn't have signed the release waiver granting permission for my child to be on the show. Even if you didn't mention the other 10 children by name, they are still tied to old boy because he's their father and will be ridiculed just the same. And, just because Adris work in the business still doesn't make it right. Yeah, we all play certain games in whatever industry we work, but wrong is still wrong.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: "The point is your readers are telling you, you crossed a line. Why not just concede that or even the possibility of that instead of offering simple, irrelevant points of contention? Seems like that would be a lot more productive. But I digress, tis your article, say what you want..."
___________________________
The Mo'Kelly Report isn't for everyone...
Bill O'Reilly gets hate mail every day. Tavis Smiley gets hate mail every day. Sean Hannity gets hate mail every day. Rush Limbaugh...George Will, Stanley Crouch, etc.
Not everything, is for everyone.
And I'm ok with that and sleep like a baby every night. What you as "the reader" don't understand is that since I do this column for free...
Let me say that again...
FOR FREE...
The only compass I need to concern myself with is my own internal one. Because readers will love you one day, hate you the next. So I can't craft my work around what's "popular."
I've been the same since day one...when NOBODY read me. They were devising email campaigns to Lee Bailey to get me "fired."
I do this column for free...
That's why I like Joseph C. Phillips...and people hate him. He just does what he does.
If you don't like what I write, I get that, I understand that...and most importantly am comfortable with that. If you want to have a discussion of the fundamental ways in which we view addictions and the double-standards in society...I'm all for that discussion.
But the calls for apologies, or a change in the level of "crassness"...
Sorry, not going to happen.
When El DeBarge and other "celebrities" like him stop getting arrested for drugs TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN...
Then I'll stop clowning them.
And the FIRST time I get arrested for something like that, I fully EXPECT and hope for you to clown me.
And if I get arrested for like the SEVENTH time...I damn sure don't want you asking ANYBODY ELSE to apologize for clowning me.
I would NOT be a sympathetic figure.
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Name:
NYCsoul
Comment: MoK> I have never made fun of the likes of DMX, Bobby Brown or Whitney Houston for their addictions. I didn't see the need to. I, too, experience having drug addicts in my family who eventually got their lives together because my grandmother, in particular, gave them alot of tough love but she also gave them lots of prayer and support. So, I'm not saying what I'm saying because El is celebrity. That's moot to me. He's human first and tha's what I see. That also doesn't mean that I condone his abuse of women either but I also know that that derives from his substance abuse and personal issues as well. So all I can say on this subject is that we can agree to disagree. Maybe this article may wake El up. I don't know. But just as I don't see the humor in this article, you have the right to write whatever you feel is appropriate to discuss. It's all good. I'll still continue to read your articles. I do enjoy them. :)
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: This is now borderline comical..no it is comical. You are peddling trash, people call you on it, you in return get defensive by pointing out you can say whatever you want on 'here' because you do it for free. This is kinda like the hip-hop argument, they can say whatever they want but then get indignant when they are judged (unfairly or not) by the music they produce. You CHOOSE to engage in a tit-for-tat w/has been artists so that you can write about it. That's your thing, it just doesn't make it respectable. Why should you (or Bailey for that matter) be held to a standard different than the one we have for BET...at the end of the day, it's all entertainment. Point taken.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: NYC..take into consideration that we are having a convo w/both YLAWD and Okelly who have both made different points about the intent of the article. Okelly is arguing for the both of them.
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Name:
NYCsoul
Comment: musb> I gotcha. I myself have not seen Mo article on DMX nor have I ever seen Flavor or Love. I saw BBB and I cringed at Bobby's and Whitney's antics. It just wasn't funny at all and it bothers me that we seem to be entertained by ridiculing people because they are who they are. Being a habitual substance offender who keeps going back to jail is no longer a joke. It's just plain sad and tragic to me.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: NYC..which is why the show never interested me. Take a look though, this is the same society that decided to make Anna Nicole infamous and cover her death for days on end. Some people just enjoy it. In fact, many people do. BTW, this is coming from someone whose relative (a habitual crack/herion addict) decided to douse himself w/gasoline in order to get back at another family member. He died from the injuries. Despite his behavior..it wasn't funny then nor now.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Fine...I'm peddling "trash." YOu were never a fan of mine to begin with...so to present yourself as "the voice of reason" is "comical" to use your word.
Don't read my work. I'm ok with it. I'll be back next week.
A substance abuser who is arrested again and again is not "tragic." The system has enabled him/her to make the same mistakes over and over again, i.e. Bobby and Whitney.
But they aren't tragic and I've made that point again and again. Tragedy is UNFORESEEN, not a habit that eventually bears it self out to self-destruction.
Again, willingly jumping off a building is not tragic...we know how it turns out.
You pick up the crack pipe, there is only one end result.
So the real discussion is, if he's arrested 5 more times, does he become more "sympathetic" or more "tragic?"
Think about that. Does your sympathy grow or lessen with each arrest. Because after awhile, somebody is responsible for the actions of El DeBarge. If it's not El DeBarge, then who?
And if you're like El who has some 7 arrests already...when he hits arrest number 12, should we sympathize MORE with him...does each arrest make it MORE of a tragedy?
I'm asking plenty questions...nobody is answering them.
If I get hooked on drugs, don't cry for me...and I'm ok with that.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: WELL WHAT DO YOU KNOW! Mo'Kelly right AGAIN!
It seems that drugs played a role in the triple-murder of Jennifer Hudson's family.
Maybe we should take time out and feel sorry for the drug user/addict William Balfour...
His story is just so "tragic."
I'm sure Jennifer Hudson would agree. I tell you, it's tough being Mo'Kelly and being right so often.
Let's show "compassion" for the druggie/dealer that is William Balfour.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081028/ap_on_re_us/chicag o_bodies_hudson
I accept YOUR apologies in advance.
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Name:
10piece
Comment: Mo, I thought it was very clever, well written and funny. El shouldnt have picked a fight he was not going to win. So na na na na na na to him
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Name:
Conrad
Comment: BET has standards????????????
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Thank you 10piece. There are some people who agree with me now and then (Harris Thomas) and some like 'Herbs who will always take a contrarian view. But thank you for being reasonable.
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Name:
2ndChance
Comment: LOL Mo, I am still laughing my a$$ at that email. You haven't made it until a DeBarge curses you out. I literally have tears in my eyes. "Don't get it twisted %*$!(". Lawd hamercy!!!
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: I'm more surprised that so many have nailed Mo'Kelly to the cross cause last time majority was for Mo'K. Now the tables have turned. Mo if you were a comedian it would've been acceptable but since you're not some people had enough of you picking on El. It's like you are a bully who "bulled" one too many times. Mo you better watch it... some body might bail El's azz out just so he can kick yo azz. Anyway... amazing how people change face this time... hypocrits or people who thought twice? Things that make you go WHAM! (Mo's azz getting kicked).
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: No, sorry...didn't get my a$$ kicked Mas90. Just a change in face by some readers.
And if he gets arrested again...we'll be right back here singing the same song, you can best believe.
Yes, he gets arrested for crack possession or something like that and I'm picking on him. Say that out loud and get back to me.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And still no answer to my questions about the J-Hud suspect...
No "compassion" for him? No "sympathy" for him if he's an addict?
Is it ok to abuse women under the influence...that's worthy of sympathy...but not shooting them?
And no, I'm not trying to be funny. Somebody needs to answer the question.
Are crackheads feelings to be considered so long as they "only" beat up women...and not shoot them? Or should we have compassion for the murderers too?
Should we worrying about kicking the murdering crackheads while they're down?
Still waiting on the answer.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: Herb already answer that questions which I agree... Some women like to be abused. NEXT!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Some women "like" to be abused? Are you serious? Thank you for proving my point.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: But I'm out of line? Oh...ok.
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Name:
Gurlfrand
Comment: Morris..."forgetting those things which are behind."
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: MOK, don't put the Hudson homocide into your discussion of how you made fun of El because you have yet to make fun of the Hudson killers
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: any man who thinks a woman likes to be abused or even, likes to be raped has emotional and control issues . . . . . any woman who has the appearance of liking abuse whether it's physical, mental, or verbal also has issues needing resolution
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Name:
DawnDuhDuh
Comment: MO, you've done your job. Better yet, obtained your objective. This discourse is an editorial. Good or bad, you have manage to get people to look at addiction and abuse and express their resolve. I found the article interesting and admit that I cringed a bit at parts, however with appreciation I recognize the piece for what it is. I enjoy ALL of your writing styles in their respective formats.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: MoKelly, where are you going with this? I thought you were being called out for making fun of someone who's fallen down, what the heck does that have to do with a murderer? If anything it seems you'd see why incessant taunting of an addict is ill-advised cuz look at how serious it can be (Hudson case). Seems like that would make you more concilliatory concerning the criticism not less so. But maybe I'm just reading wrong. I'm confused...
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Name:
TGen
Comment: DawnDuhDuh, where is the evidence that MoKelly's objective was to "manage to get people to look at addiction and abuse and express their resolve?" It seems like the objective was to get people to laugh at how ElDebarge is eating crow after talking ish and getting in trouble again. I don't see that grand evocation of deep thinking and empathy you mention, at all. Seems like you are attributing to MoKelly bigger aims than even he, himself purports.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: O'Kelly..is this a joke, you can't be serious? What are you doing now...walking around w/your hands folded, lips drawn tight, and POUTING like a petulant child because people don't agree w/you. How infantile. You don't need to give ne of us instructions on what NOT to do w/your work. That point is obvious. You are defensive w/out a reason. "Never a fan...to begin with...voice of reason is comical." How old are you? 10? Because u think I'm anti-Morris O'Kelly, I can't have an opinion that's not grounded in bias? Puhleeze. Stop flattering yourself w/this self-righteous indignation. What is right or wrong about the toll drugs have on people? Stop trying to make up an argument. We have been clear in our criticism that you are engaging in a silly tit for tat w/a "crackhead." You are lowering yourself by needing the attention of d-list celebrities. You don't deserve a pat on the back for that. I would expect this foolishness from Kat Williams..not you. But aye, you can write what you want because your purpose is to entertain us. Same goes for Wendy Williams. Birds of a feather, hang low in the trenches 2gether. BTW, using your analogy, why don't you write an entertaining article about William Balfour (if found guilty) on next week and poke fun at him abusing drugs. I doubt it you will find any sympathy different than the non-sympathy shown here w/El. But write it anyway and make sure you post youtube clips of other men who murdered children just to prove your entertaining point. TGEN..thanks on the dawnduh response. That was a head scratcher too.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: LOL, Musb, I was thinking that too. I DARE him to write a "funny" about Balfour. It seems like he's arguing that he would be okay in doing so, or something...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Not pouting at all herbs...despite your "opinion" I made a genuine point that you've yet to address. You have a "different" opinion of Balfour...than you do of El DeBarge and your level of sympathy for him.
I'll go REAL slow for you to understand. The point is, the community has OUTRAGE for Balfour...not sympathy. For El DeBarge you ostensibly have sympathy.
Got it so far?
The discussion began about "sympathy" for addicts. And if it is determined that Balfour is an addict, does that change your level of sympathy?
Still with me?
If so, (here comes the point again...hang in there, I'll continue to go slow).
If so, why adjudicate your "sympathy" on the type of crime committed, if we're supposed to have "sympathy" for addicts? If "addicts" are to be "sympathetic" figures, then their crime shouldn't have any bearing in theory. "They have a disease."
Now go drink some milk with your cookies.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: So no TGen, wasn't "arguing" to find humor in Balfour...here's a cookie for you too...I know the level of discussion might be a bit beyond you.
Run outside and play for now, grown folks are talking. Hush baby.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Dawn...SHHHHHHH, don't let the secret out. Let them keep arguing all week long. You're not supposed to realize that everything going on is in my byline and is the exact reason why I do what I do.
Stop it!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: So class, in summation. It's real damn simple. You use the "disease" excuse when it's convenient, not a rule of thumb. If someone's crimes are "tolerable" then they have a disease...
If someone's crimes are intolerable...then they don't deserve any respect.
And in truth, I don't "disagree" with that...just acknowledge the double-standard.
Don't look at this emotionally, look at it purely in logic. If a crackhead murders someone, or someones...we don't hear the "disease" argument...especially if it involves someone we love or respect.
But as Mas90 CLEARLY POINTED OUT, if the crimes associated our tolerable (which is subjective) and CLEARLY, ABUSING WOMEN IS "ACCEPTABLE" to him, then the "victim" crackhead is worthy of sympathy and not to be ridiculed. We should not "kick him when he's down."
But you wouldn't say that for someone like Balfour. Putting him under the jail wouldn't be enough.
Why...doesn't he have a disease "also?"
Now before you come back with something smart...acknowledge the double-standard. No, I'm not arguing to write something "funny" about Balfour. I'm arguing that y'all are willy-nilly when it comes to WHEN addicts "have a disease" and when they're just "criminals" and deserve zero sympathy.
Now deal with that. THAT is the point of this whole discussion. I don't care what you think about me or this piece, but if you can't address that, I'm done with the discussion...because at the heart of it all, is this double-standard.
I've maintained that crackheads ARE NOT VICTIMS, irrespective of the crimes they commit. Domestic abuse reaches the level of intolerable crime for me.
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Name:
DawnDuhDuh
Comment: TGen, here is my evidence in Mo's own words:
"But in terms of THIS space, it's an entertainment journal with a political slant...to do among many things...entertain...But as long as you and others are reading AND commenting...I've done my "job."
In regards to your comment "Seems like you are attributing to MoKelly bigger aims than even he, himself purports." It seems like you, as a good friend would say, need an ACTIVITY. Good day. I SAID GOOD DAY!!
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Name:
TGen
Comment: No DawnDuhDuh, here's your quote: "Good or bad, you have manage to get people to look at addiction and abuse and express their resolve." When was MoKelly's aim to "get people to look at addiction?" You are making up ish to try to defend your beloved writer. Seems like you're the one who needs an activity--reading for comprehension is a good start, lol. But um you have a good day too...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Honestly TGen. The discussion in here is rarely EVER about the subject matter contained in an editorial when it comes to my humorous pieces. I've done this for years. If you "think" I couldn't foresee the "dissent" over what is or is not funny...YOU give yourself too much credit and aren't giving me mine.
The FIRST complaint I knew would be levied would be that since he's an addict, he needs prayer, sympathy and help...and it would go from there.
I've ALREADY HAD THIS DISCUSSION when I laid into Whitney. So no, Dawn isn't attributing anything too lofty to me.
I can easily point you to the Whitney discussion...scroll up. You'll see the same points made there as here.
And how convenient, you didn't acknowledge my discussion points above either.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And since you keep reading AND commenting (despite it being off topic mostly)...I've still done my job.
You're spending yesterday AND today with me.
Yes, I've clearly done my job. And you'll be back. That says volumes. That says I matter. And before you "argue" I don't matter, realize you're still spending more time here...in your attempts to tell me I'm insignificant and don't matter.
Don't play yourself.
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Name:
DawnDuhDuh
Comment: Mo, Exactly! I have a big cyber grin right now.
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Name:
PhrozenPharaoh
Comment: To whom it may concern,
It is amazing to constantly read the ignorant, humorous bull$hit that is posted weekly on this site but now everyone wants to get all offended. Lighten up, people!!!! It was just a joke and I must admit funny as hell!!! Mo'Kelly keep on doing your thing brother!
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Okelly, thanks for the grade school lesson on how to read as if your article wasn't written with the intelligence of a lump of coal in mind. You CHOSE to write an entertaining article on El's drug abuse. IMO, there is never anything entertaining about drug abuse. That's the same point being raised by the rest of us who didn't find it humorous. You didn't write an article on the effects of drug abuse nor the toils it takes on people around them. You, and let me say it slowly, decided to write an entertaining article on drug abuse. Whether the subject were Balfour's (who you introduced) or El's drug abuse..neither is an entertaining subject..despite what you have convinced yourself of. The crimes committed by Balfour and El are strikingly different..as well as your "double-standard." That's like you deciding to write an 'entertaining' article about a woman who, after being beaten by her husband for years, brutally murdered him. Then comparing her murder to that of the asian who killed those students @ Vtech. Then asking, "is there a double-standard since both were murders." That's a silly rhetorical question. Yet, YOU are the one who introduced the silly comparison. That was your brilliant mind working on empty. Contrary to what you have convinced yourself of, you don't get to decide what the article is about, what the readers should think its about, and then the point of the ensuing dialogue. YOU introduced this foolishness about crackheads being VICTIMS when no one suggested such. You don't have to write an 'entertaining' article on how a homeless man is responsible for being homeless. Sure, he's not a 'victim' (nor do you have to have sympathy for him) But it doesn't mean that his station in life should provide fodder for your columns. That's YOUR decision. Your purpose will be served if El sends you another e-mail. That way you can come back and write another article giving yourself another hard-on because a d-list celeb entertained you. Whatever works for you. BTW, people continue to buy degrading hip-hop music. Despite the backlash, the artists still feel as if they've done their job. Hats off to hip-hop.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: major serious wow, MOK: it's not a good idea to "kick" a drug addict for entertainment even if you have done so in other instances . . . . . the fact that your behavior is cheered on by other like-minded people does not excuse you or them . . . . . a famous comedian who once actively engaged in using a nasty name for blacks said that he stopped doing so when he had an opportunity to see that we really are not that nasty name [say Richard Pryor] . . . . . at some point in your "writing" career, may you also have a defining moment when you realize that you must do that 180 degree change with regard to making fun of addicts for entertainment, or any other reason
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Name:
Conrad
Comment: Is this the El DeBarge brother Janet Jackson was married to many years ago? The one where Janet use to go into bad neighborhoods at night to obtain drugs for? The one that Joe coerced Janet into divorcing? If so, it has been about 20 years since the divorce and he is still a drug addict! I see nothing sad about his situation. I grew up in Bed-Stuy when king heroin ruled. I saw a lot of fools shooting up on the regular. When the preacher's only child, a so-called grown man overdosed, I was too through with these fools sticking needles in their arms. Fools like these losers need to be mocked and made fun of. Drug addicts will get no pass or sympathy from me.
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Name:
Exmun
Comment: As an FYI, El Debarge was sentenced to two years in jail on yesterday for violating his parole. http://www.tmz.com/2008/10/28/el-debarge-guilty-sent-t o-el-big-house/
I'm not going to jump into the fray on this one. I'll say this. I thought the other El DeBarge piece when he wrote the email to Mo' was very funny. For whatever reason, unknown to me, I didn't find this El DeBarge article particularly funny. Not really sure why. I 'get' what everyone is saying about the mean spiritedness of the article... again without stating an opinion as to whether I agree or disagree. I also 'get' Mo's point about noone complaining when Mo' pokes fun at other less sympathetic figures, like e.g. DMX. Still, I recall thinking that Mo' was a tad harsh in his Wesley Snipes critique over the tax evasion thing. I chalk this up to style. Mo's still is the kid poking fun at the other kid who just fell on a slippery sidewalk while playing in the rain. Reasonable minds can differ as to whether the kid deserves sympathy or ridicule, since after all, the kid was playing on a slippery surface while it was raining. I will take a position on the Adris issue. I don't consider it good taste to bring knucklehead's children (even adult children) into the mix. Not a good look.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: for the meth epidemic that largely harms white people, the meth addicts get help for their "illness", they don't get the levels or amount of jail time that black drug addicts get: black drug addicts don't get a pass and as we see from MOK's article, no sympathy . . . . . just to be clear here, exactly who are the losers?
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Name:
TGen
Comment: lol MoKelly, please tell me when/where I called you "insignificant?" Project much? I have NO idea what you're talking about re: Whitney Houston, I don't remember it, and frankly don't care. Your response to me is curious because it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said about THIS article! lol And I too have a "cyber-grin" like DawnDuhDuh because this discussion has devolved into pure hilarity. lol
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Welcome back TGen...glad to see I still matter.
Harris...I'm looking for consistency in the yardstick of sympathy.
If we REALLY want to get deep in this conversation we can go back to the crack versus cocaine and how the justice system looks at them differently.
But I'm just keeping it in the realm of how some folks are largely "cool" with thinking of El as a "victim" of a "disease" but that conveniently flies out the window when the "victim" of a "disease" commits "certain crimes."
And again, it's clear...the people who DIRECTLY have been involved with addicts generally have no sympathy.
And Harris...you can wait on that 180 degree turn all you want. It's not coming. I've seen first hand what drugs to people, their families and most importantly...communities.
To excuse it on any level is beneath our privilege as a people. We're not talking about crack babies who had no choice. We're talking about ignorant fools who threw their lives away. Tragedy is unforeseen and uncontrollable. These same folks here were clowning the Croc Hunter for getting killed, arguing (it was bound to happen).
Difference? I see none.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And 'herbs...thanks for not answering the question and instead spinning to insult me instead.
We get it...you don't like me. We get it.
But as for the question, you still didn't answer it. Just FYI. Again.
For the 12th time.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Musb, great post. I'm wondering after reading it how MoKelly could POSSIBLY provide a combat, it seems so...clear. lol HarrisThomas, you make a great point re Whites vs Blacks and the disparity in the treatment. It's clear from MoKelly, Conrad et al that sympathy for drug addicts is above their emotiona capabilities, that's fine. But I still have not read a reasonable defense of laughing at them. It might not make you cry, but what about it is funny? I've yet to see the "funny" in a life being wasted away. Hmmm
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: MOK, I asked for an apology for the tone of your article which you indicated you have no intention of doing . . . . . my request for your apology is not about whether you were right or wrong in providing such vicious entertainment, but whether such entertainment is necessary
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Exmun
"Mo's still is the kid poking fun at the other kid who just fell on a slippery sidewalk while playing in the rain. Reasonable minds can differ as to whether the kid deserves sympathy or ridicule, since after all, the kid was playing on a slippery surface while it was raining. I will take a position on the Adris issue."
_____________
To your point...El is not a child, thus held to a different standard. So to differ on the sympathy level for a child is one thing...but a child El is not.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Harris...no entertainment is "necessary." None. Not professional basketball, movies, television...none of it.
It's just a matter of our choices and taste. I don't particularly care for certain forms of entertainment or specific entertainers.
We all have our choices.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: lol I guess he responded before I got a chance to read it. Again, MoKelly, WHEN did I say you "didn't matter?" I think you have me confused with someone else, I never said that. I've basically stated that your article was immature and out of line, that's it. I'm not understanding where you're coming from at all. Btw, this: "it's clear...the people who DIRECTLY have been involved with addicts generally have no sympathy" is bull. What's "clear" is that most here have stated they've had "DIRECT" contact with a druggie, myself included. Why you think most people who've had direct contact with an addict wouldn't be sympathetic is beyond me. You are making NO SENSE. I really, REALLY gave you more credit than this. Honestly, I'm disappointed in your response to all this, seems like I overestimated your intellectual aptitude big time. :(
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: So no Harris, I don't think you can go "too far" with a 7-time arrested crackhead who beats women routinely.
I can't be anymore clear than that.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: TGen, you ridiculed the conversation. If the conversation didn't "matter" please explain why you're still here.
Very simple concept.
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Name:
Conrad
Comment: Make no mistake about the fact that the losers are the addicts themselves. We non-addicts are victims if confronted by an addict needing a fix who might hit us over the head for our money. I lived in Oregon for four years and the meth addiction there has been way out of control for years. However, despite the small percentage of Black people living in Oregon, especially metro Portland, many of them have chosen to make meth their drug of choice, the operative word being "choice." I will save my sympathy for people who are victims of addicts, and other acts of man which place them in circumstances beyond their control.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: TGen, scroll up read the posts. The people who've agreed with me largely have stated their first-person analysis and experiences.
It's not hard, it's that little round thing on your mouse.
Glad to know you like it here.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Well Conrad obviously gets it.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: TGEN..yes it is projecting. That's part why I made the statement above about Okelly deciding to dictate all aspects of the conversation..even to the point of bringing up things unstated then accusing us of bringing them up. He changes the course of the conversation to prove him right. Hence, the SEE I WAS RIGHT I WAS RIGHT IT'S TOUGH BEING RIGHT comment made earlier about who? The person HE introduced into the argument...William Balfour. It doesn't matter that some of us have admitted to being DIRECTLY involved w/drug abuse. Our opinions are invalid because? Oh, just because Okelly says they are. Who made excuses for crackheads? Oh, no one really..the accusation just sounds better because it helps to prove Okelly's point of? Being right. Who is continuing to talk about sympathy for victims of diseases who commit crimes? Oh, just Morris O'kelly. The accusation sounds better because it helps to prove his point of? Being right. Who brought up a discussion about his kids and why? Okelly is because kids are par for the course in the realm of entertainment.
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Name:
Exmun
Comment: Mo', so that we're clear, I'm not taking a position on whether your article was too mean or out of bounds. I have no opinion on that issue. I only tried to point out what I observed as the two competing interests. My only position was that I did not agree with you mention of El DeBarge's daughter Adris in your lampoon piece. Adris' father is the dufus drug addict. Near as I can tell, she is not. It's poor taste to put her into the ridicule stew, 'cause she ain't in this, other than being fathered by a loser. Transference onto Adris for her role in the Eddie Murphy/Tracey Edmonds is IMO irrelevant. All I'm saying.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Exmun...I'm absolutely cool on your points...and I mean that respectfully. The Adris thing was admittedly a jab AT her. In the way I jabbed at Brandy. Was it over the line in regards to her?
Probably.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: 'Herbs...still didn't address my question. Yes, we get you don't like me.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: From TMZ....
l DeBarge Guilty -- Sent to El Big House
Posted Oct 28th 2008 6:12PM by TMZ Staff
El DeBarge will spend the next two years feeling the rhythm of the night behind bars in connection with a recent drug bust in L.A.
The pop star was just sentenced to two years in state prison -- starting right this second. Authorities are currently taking him to California State Prison in Lancaster where he will immediately begin his sentence.
The judge decided his conduct during the drug bust earlier this month -- in which DeBarge was allegedly found with CRACK COCAINE on his person -- was enough to violate the probation he was on from a drug case in 2007.
_______________-
That was very "mean" of TMZ...El is the "victim"...he deserves "sympathy." Soon TMZ will see the error of their ways...
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: BTW, I don't even know what question you want answered. And what's up w/this "herbs didn't answer my question [so] that means he don't like me." Again how old are you 10? Why are you worried about whether I like you when I'm the one coming to your article and commenting on it. Frankly, I wouldn't care and is very silly reasoning. I can't criticize your work because I don't like you. I won't respond to your questions because I don't like you. What's next, I refer to you as Okelly because I don't like you? You're beginning to act like the crack head you accuse El of being..especially w/this nonsensical post about TMZ.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: LOL! MoKelly, I think I get it. I think you're pulling my leg. You're doing a jokey-joke, huh? You must, because you have the nerve to put a word in quotes I didn't say ("matter") and insist I "ridiculed the conversation" when I've done NO SUCH THING! WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???????????? Please provide a quote or something so I can follow you, else I'll be inclined to agree with Musb's %*$essment of you: perhaps you just make up ish to refute points no one has made. That's looking really quite accurate right about now.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Here Herbs...I even cut and pasted it for you. You're taking this WAY to personal.
_________________________________
Name: MorrisOKelly
Comment: So class, in summation. It's real damn simple. You use the "disease" excuse when it's convenient, not a rule of thumb. If someone's crimes are "tolerable" then they have a disease... If someone's crimes are intolerable...then they don't deserve any respect. And in truth, I don't "disagree" with that...just acknowledge the double-standard.
Don't look at this emotionally, look at it purely in logic. If a crackhead murders someone, or someones...we don't hear the "disease" argument...especially if it involves someone we love or respect. But as Mas90 CLEARLY POINTED OUT, if the crimes associated our tolerable (which is subjective) and CLEARLY, ABUSING WOMEN IS "ACCEPTABLE" to him, then the "victim" crackhead is worthy of sympathy and not to be ridiculed.
We should not "kick him when he's down." But you wouldn't say that for someone like Balfour. Putting him under the jail wouldn't be enough.
Why...doesn't he have a disease "also?"
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Name:
TGen
Comment: "You're beginning to act like the crack head you accuse El of being..especially w/this nonsensical post about TMZ." OMG, lmao!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: TGen...scroll up...this is what you said, and I quote...
_____________
"Your response to me is curious because it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said about THIS article! lol And I too have a "cyber-grin" like DawnDuhDuh because this discussion has devolved into pure hilarity. lol"
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: TGEN...you're still here. I love it!
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Name:
TGen
Comment: So my saying the convo has devolved equals my saying you're "insignificant?" Are you serious?
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Name:
TGen
Comment: P.S. MoKelly, you keep pointing me out as "still being here," no one else. Why? Yet you keep responding to me, am I not supposed to come back to see what you've written? Is the name of the game, "since it's my column, I get the last word, you are not to refute my points?" I didn't realize that's how this game goes, lol Hmmmm But anywho, no worries, at appx 3 pm est today, I won't be "still here," lol and I'll leave you to converse with other posters of your druthers. Kay? Kay...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: TGen
Comment: So my saying the convo has devolved equals my saying you're "insignificant?" Are you serious?
_______________
No, you're connecting two different and unrelated points.
I'm validating that you ridiculed the conversation...which you said I was on crack for saying...
And also I'm saying that for someone who finds this conversation insignificant, it's contradictory to hang around.
_____________________-
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: TGEn...you and I both know plenty more people "lurk." Don't be so silly.
Exmun...lurked long before responding.
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Name:
TGen
Comment: OMG, you can't be serious MoKelly, you just can't be. I just refuse to beleive you actually believe the ish you're saying today. No way, no how. 1) When did I say you were "on crack?" lol 2) When did I "find the conversation insignificant?" Again, you're making up ish to further a misdirected aim. Maybe you're just tired today or something. I'm hoping that's the case. Personally, I'm REALLY sleepy today, this convo has helped me stay awake (and avoid some work, lol) so I'm appreciative. But even in my exhaustion, I think I'm able to offer cogent arguments, (at least to the point of not making up ish that people didn't say.) You on the other hand...wow.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: So the question is whether Balfour has a disease? You can't be serious..you really can't. I don't know if he has a drug addiction or not since the most I've read about this story is on EUR and Bailey hasn't mentioned it. If he does have an addiction...then yes, he would have the disease. Does a schizophrenic 'stop' being a shizophrenic once he/she kills somebody? *scratching head* Speaking of answering questions, if Balfour is found guilty and admitted to being under the influence of drugs, will you write an 'entertaining' article next week about what his drug use led him to do? TGEN...I'm thinking the same thing. This reminds me of the hip-hop argument where instead of owning up to how their music devalues cultural/social responsibility, they counter w/"this is what the streets are like" sort of argument all in the name of being right...for being right's sake.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: TGEN...my apologies, you were quoting 'herbs. I didn't realize you were quoting him.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Slow down 'Herbs...you're missing the point.
I'm talking about the article, I'm talking about our level of sympathy for Balfour...why are you refusing to answer the question I put forth.
Let's try something close to syllogistic logic, though flawed syllogisms are.
If El DeBarge is a addict
And addicts are sympathetic victims of a disease...
And Balfour is too an addict.
Ergo Balfour is a sympathetic victim too.
If not...then why parse sympathy over the types of crimes they've committed.
It's a really simple point that most people seem to get, yet you refuse to address.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Don't tell me that El is a sympathetic victim because he's an addict, but then turn around and argue that Balfour is not, if he's found to be an addict.
Address the double-standard in the way we view one as "sympathetic" and the other not.
The point I made was, the CRIME changed your sympathy. And if it did, then it's not about the "disease" it's about our level of acceptance for the crimes they commit while "suffering" from this disease.
I call BS...it's not a disease and the double-standard in terms of sympathy bears this fact out.
C'Mon Herbs...keep up. Do better. I know you can.
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: I think I've been pretty consistent in having compassion for the addict as well as those around that person. I have an uncle who drugged himself into an early grave and I know it affected him, his wives (yes 3) and his children. It is hard to watch someone destroy him/herself and not be able to do anything. But it is also counterproductive to ridicule that person. The most addicted addict didn't grow up wanting to inject/smoke/snort drugs. He/she didn't grow up wanting to steal from family/friends to support the habit. He/she didn't grow up aspiring to perform sex acts to feed a habit. I say all of that to say that these people need help not jokes. I understand this is an "info-tainment" site/article but I think that laughing at any of the above people - DMX/Bobby/Whitney/El is kinda sad. And the other part about the abusing women is a consequence of drug use. People on drugs do not think rationally. They act first and then act again. Thinking doesn't come into it. And, I've worked at an addiction treatment center. I've worked with people trying to get off drugs. They WANT help. They do not want to be on drugs. The urge to be on them is physiological and therefore a disease. It is not just "I think I want to smoke some rock" - it is their bodies telling them to smoke it much like your body tells you it is hungry. It is not just mental. The body tells an addict it wants the drugs by giving the adverse reactions - shaking, etc. You may or may not know it but an alcoholic can actually die when detoxing because the body cannot handle not having the liquor in the system after the body adapts to needing it to function. Alcoholics have to detox under medical care sometimes or they risk cardiac arrest. THAT alone should let you know that this is more than someone wanting to throw his/her life away. This is a serious problem and there's nothing funny about it. Nothing funny. I understand the whole "crass" thing and all but taunting someone with such a serious problem is kinda below the belt. A drug addiction is a mental illness. People scoff at mental illnesses, too but they are real and they can devastate a person and his/her family. And, in terms of addiction, when I was co-leading group sessions, most if not all of our patients were on meds because ultimately many people with addictions are self-medicating a mental condition or an emotional trauma. Would you taunt someone with depression / bipolar / schizophrenia? If any of you would - wow.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Queenie, thank you for jumping in. I'll just speak for me.
I look upon mental illness differently from substance dependency and others have touched upon this.
The question of "how we got here" is relevant. I honestly believe mental illness is often not a choice where substance abuse is.
We can argue back and forth about whether "mental illness" leads to substance abuse, but that's a bit too much to discuss here in my estimation.
I'm not of the opinion that all addicts want help. The very fact that I read about seven arrests and not one time in which El checked into a treatment center is relevant in the discussion of "wanting help."
You mentioned Whitney...same thing. The whole world knew she was on drugs, she went on TV and flaunted it.
Nobody cared, nobody did anything. So when she finally hits bottom we're supposed to be sympathetic?
The woman bragged on ABC with Diane Sawyer to using every drug except (at that time) crack...because "crack is wack."
The issue here is culpability and responsibility.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: Mo... i didn't say Abusing women was acceptable. Learn how to comprehend English. I said and quote "Some women like to be abused." No where did "I" say it was acceptable. You need an English course. Liking to be abused is a personal and mentally disturb person who has low self respect and esteem and not ready to move away from their problems. Negro (Mo'K) I think you have read so many postings you've starting to forget.
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: And on a spiritual note - anybody with any spirituality at all knows that the greater you achieve, the great gifts you have, the greater financial rewards you have, the more you will be tested/attacked by the enemy. When the enemy sees you fulfilling your purpose, he gets mad and he does his best to counter it. Drugs, sex, greed, etc. are used all the time and they win in many cases because sin is pleasurable until it destroys you. The enemy sends a beautiful woman, not Shrek's wife Fiona to take down a politician doing good things. Drugs feel really good until the darkness of them surfaces. A businessman/woman can be doing great work with a company - creating jobs, giving to charity until greed rears it's ugly head and takes him/her down. We see it all the time with famous people and with "regular" people too. The more you achieve, the more you use and triumph using your gift, the more the enemy will attack you. I don't think people really think that through and pray for strength when they do achieve. And, I don't think people watching really take that into account when they watch someone rise and then fall.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Mas90
Comment: Mo... i didn't say Abusing women was acceptable. Learn how to comprehend English. I said and quote "Some women like to be abused." No where did "I" say it was acceptable. You need an English course. Liking to be abused is a personal and mentally disturb person who has low self respect and esteem and not ready to move away from their problems. Negro (Mo'K) I think you have read so many postings you've starting to forget.
____________
Mas90, for you even to "excuse" domestic abuse with the ridiculous %*$ertion that women "like to be abused" is indicative of you being "off."
There is no "excuse" for abuse...that's like saying some women who are raped "wanted it."
Thanks for coming back to clown yourself a second time and elaborating on why I should continue clowning you.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Queenie, in all seriousness. I do look upon this as spiritual warfare. I do look upon drugs as evil, absolute evil. I will do everything in my power to make the life of drugs as unattractive, uncomfortable and undesirable as possible. And if my ridicule helps in any way to "discourage" someone...I'm all for it. And THAT is the real reason I won't apologize. If you put that crack pipe in your mouth in 2008, you have chosen to give away your life, your freedom and your future.
If I have to ridicule people into thinking twice in the future, so be it. Whatever deterrent is necessary. I'm all for it. Coddling is not a deterrent, it's an enabling element.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And Mas90...this also needs to be said. You've made it very clear that you don't date women. So what exactly are you basing your "expert analysis" on?
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Name:
queeniebunz
Comment: >mas90- I wasn't gonna touch what you said but I kinda have to since you've now said it twice. Women do not want to be abused. Period. If you've ever talked to someone in an abusive relationship, really talked to her and sometimes him (particularly in male gay relationships_) you will find out that the person has been so verbally/emotionally/mentally beat down that she/he feels as if there is nothing else for her/him. Years ago, I counseled a lesbian being abused by her partner. An abuser starts the abuse off MENTALLY beating the person down. During that time, the physical starts and then it's both. "You ain't gonna find nobody else!" and "You're worthless. You should be glad I even want your sorry azz!" and "I wouldn't have had to do that if you didn't make me angry!" are all common things an abuser says. By the time the slaps/punches/kicks start, the person is so emotionally battered that she/he doesn't know what to do or how to get out of the relationship. AND then there is the whole threat thing. "If you leave, I'll hunt you down and kill you and your children and your family". I had a co-worker in Atlanta whose husband killed her and shot her father before shooting and killing himself because he was mad she was divorcing him. She had the nerve to up and leave his sorry azz so he took her out. Nobody at the school even knew she was being abused. She presented herself as a successful, confident woman and all the while her husband was beating her on the regular. Her name was Traci Turner and she was killed in November of 2004 if you want to look her up. I also had a 6th grade student find her mother shot and killed by her boyfriend/fiance who had shot and killed himself also. It broke my heart and actually brought me to tears when they told me she said, "Mommy won't wake up." I had just had a parent/teacher conference with the mom about a week or so before so I met the woman. It's tragic and to say that someone "likes" to be abused is bunk. It's incredibly ignorant and insulting to people who are in that position and people who've lost loved ones to domestic violence.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Queenie...now we're at the intersection of all these conversations. You already know the seriousness of domestic violence and we all should agree about the evils of drugs.
Given that...I'm not giving a "sympathy" pass for El DeBarge, period.
Now was the piece harsh? Yes.
Did it probably step over the line? Arguably yes.
Is El DeBarge worthy of "sympathy?" I say no. Do I want him to turn his life around? Of course. There's a difference between clowning someone and WISHING further ill upon them.
I just don't have ANY sympathy for men who abuse women...none...
And if by chance you're an addict who abuses women and that addiction lands you in jail.
GREAT. You'll get justice AND a good clowning. And I'm ALL GOOD with that.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Predictably...'Herbs has left the building without answering the question (sigh)
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: you are corect, MOK, this is your barbeque even if it ain't that tasty . . . . . trust sir, that I am not sitting around waiting for you to understand the meaness in your entertainment: that would cause you to lose face in front of your audience
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Harris...I never said it wasn't "mean." I'm saying that this domestic-abusing crackhead's feelings are not really important.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: another WTF? brain freeze comment: from MOK - "And if my ridicule helps in any way to "discourage" someone...I'm all for it. And THAT is the real reason I won't apologize" - the object of the ridicule recognizes the ridicule as help, right?
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Harris...we're just not communicating here. Let me put it another way.
If you find the ridicule of drug addicts "offensive" to you...I'm ok with that.
If people someone find that ridicule as "another reason" to avoid getting into trouble with drugs, I'm good with that too.
I'm not trying to "help" El DeBarge. He's made his choices, his career is done. So El isn't really a part of this turn in the discussion.
Drugs are bad. Drugs kill people. Not only will you die, you'll be ridiculed mercilessly when you throw your life away for them.
Same applies to D'Angelo. Whitney. Jim Morrison. Jimi Hendrix. et. al.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: MO (neeegroo) your quote "You've made it very clear that you don't date women." I've dated women before men, know it all. Negro, my statement wasn't a comment on myself but from observations of people I know. Your tired azz had no comment what I said so you had to attack me. Neegroos!
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: I hear you, MOK, that El's feelings are not important, but I didn't discern concern for woman abuse in your article . . . . . maybe what gets me like a punch in the chest is your video snippet selection: the video snippets aren't effective for your overarching points that you wanted to make
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Wow, did you not read the quote you used? I said you DON'T DATE WOMEN. I didn't say you've NEVER dated women.
Shooting a couple a free throws in your life doesn't make you a basketball expert.
And if you acknowledge your "observations" aren't second-hand at best, you really don't have any foundation in which to state that premise. And Queenie laid it out very well.
So emotional Mas...I detect unresolved issues. I wasn't attacking you, merely restating a point in which you have willingly shared on these boards that you're gay.
That's not a value judgment...but I find it odd that a gay man wants to put forth his theories on "women wanting to be abused." Clearly, you don't spend a lot of time in relationships with them.
It's a fair point to make.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Harris...re-read the piece. Here are quotes.
"For those not quite up to speed on the saga better known as Mo'Kelly versus El DeBarge; "Eldra" took a moment out of his day, in between crack pipes and abusing women to blast an email in protest of Mo'Kelly's highly hilarious editorial about his arrests ... "
"Mo'Kelly was really pulling for Eldra to get it together this time. Mo'Kelly was hoping Eldra would be able to kick the habit and stop kicking women. Mo'Kelly was looking forward to the day in which he and El could sit down, have a beer, look back on this and laugh."
_____________
I've been consistent. It's ALWAYS been in there.
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: What little round thing on the mouse? And nobody ever told me who Eddie Kane Jr is?
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: Wow! I can't believe yall are still "here". I respectfully ask Why?if the article was so offensive. No one's mind is obviously being changed by this dialogue and at points it's branching off into the arcane. This is not rocket science. It works just like the t.v. You don't like what's being said, change the channel. IMO MOKelly owes noone an apology for HIS slant on the El issue. El's situation is not a "tragedy" more like a willful act of stupidity. I'm with whoever said the tragedy is what these fools do to other people (well more or less that's what he said). He gets clowned. I'm sure if the clowning was affecting him as much as it seems to be affecting some of Mo's readers, he stop the behavior that gets him clowned. I admit I laughed at the article. It was amusing. End of story. I'll save my sympathy for folks that really need it, like Jennifer Hudson, the mother of the child killed by the UZI at the gun show, the family of the missing jogger....seeing a trend here?
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Y Lawdy Y.
Eddie Kane Jr. is the "crackhead" in The Five Heartbeats.
And on most computer mouses there's a "roller" at the top-center to help scroll up and down a page faster. :)
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: LOL...I was joking about the mouse thing, but I WAS serious about Eddie Kane Jr. Thanks.
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Name:
Exmun
Comment: In Mo's defense ...(not that he really needs one) I interpreted the article as Mo's attempt to poke fun at his ongoing war with El DeBarge. While I thought the tone was a bit harsh and I especially didn't like the inclusion of the man's daughter--who had nothing to do with this... I do at least recognize that El did send Mo' a threatening email, threatening bodily harm. So, I can at least "understand" Mo' not feeling like he owes El anything resembling sympathy. Still not saying that I agree with the Mo' approach, just that I can understand it.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Exmun...that's a reasonable and logical (read: unemotional %*$essment). That's all I ever ask.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: OK then, MOK . . . . . my OMG knee jerk reaction is directly related to the video snippets because I know that Gator and Pookie die while Eddie finds redeemption . . . . . knowing that two of the video characters die did not go with your humorous entertainment while leaving your words of encouragement [and the redeemed character] kinda hanging as though those words are not true encouragement
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Harris...in all seriousness, I see what you mean. The "fullness" of the characters is different from the sentiments I was expressing in relation to the specific clips.
I wasn't actually trying to go that deep into the redemptive nature of Eddie or the likability of Pookie or the evilness of Gator.
I was more just poking fun in a pop culture sense of how crackheads have been portrayed on the silver screen as a way to further the joke about how crackheads are vastly different in terms of "personality."
But I would agree, I'm offering more "sarcasm" than true words of encouragement. But the truth of the matter is that I'd much rather see him in rehab than in jail...but after you email me and want to whoop my %*$, I don't have a lot of tears if you end up in jail. In my last piece on El DeBarge, the one when I first mention his email, I point out how his mind-set hasn't changed. He's still emotionally in the same place as before.
If he's just out of jail and wanting whoop a$$...he's not asking for help, he's asking for more trouble.
He found it.
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Name:
Exmun
Comment: Mas90, Just for the record though, I vehemently disagree with your statement that "Some women like to be abused." That statement hits waay the hell too close for two women that I love, and my experience doesn't bear out any truth to your argument. People find themselves-even willingly go-into negative relationships, often based on their insecurities and flaws. But I've yet to meet a woman who "liked" to be abused.
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Name:
YLawdY
Comment: >< with Exmun
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Believe it or not, I have a job. BUT, Talking about bait and switch. Does the type of crime change our sympathies? Is that a rhetorical question? Of course it does. Correctly stating that Balfour (if he is an addict) has a disease is not asking for sympathy. It's correctly stating what medical professionals have classified it as. How silly a point. There you go w/that circular reasoning you always do. Suicide is a choice. That doesn't mean that you need to write an entertaining article about it. As smart as you consider yourself, you are one of the few people I've heard who think you can ridicule someone into submission. Just how much do you think of yourself? Can you point me to a time that 'ridicule' has helped someone turn their lives around? That's not even recommended for wayward children. You don't ridicule someone in hopes that they get their act 2gether. What school of therapy did you attend. EUR University? You are making efforts to RIDICULE someone's addiction NOT open a discussion on drug abuse. Please. You want El to send you another e-mail so that you can pat yourself on the back. From reading your article and subsequent responses, you would much rather ridicule someone than talk about the effect of drugs. EX...that's not even a defense becuz Okelly argues that THAT wasn't his intention. I believe, as do others, that this was exactly what you said. A chance to engage in a tit for tat w/a has been thereby making a name for himself as a hard-hitting entertainment journalist who evokes anger from his subject. He's had this back and forth w/El during his last run-in. So to engage in YET ANOTHER one is self-gratifying at best. El didn't go after him on this one...he went after EL and now wants to masquerade it as concern. He would much rather see him as the butt of his jokes. He solicited a response from EL and he got it, now he wants another one.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: And what does Mas being a homo have to do w/him having an opinion on what women like. You don't have to be in a relationship w/women to have opinions on what they do/don't like. And I interpreted his comment differently. I compared it to the notion that since using drugs is a choice..and people know the consequences..and they continue to use it..that they must like it. By the same, if a woman knows her husband beats here, and she CHOOSES to stay w/him, then she must like the abuse. Both are silly, insensitive ways of looking at it. But, we tend to do it neway...just like Okelly has done w/his article.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: go into a drug treatment center, propose to "ridicule" the patients into submission and see how far you get w/your orthodoxy. Head to a homeless shelter and do the same.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Wow, "homo"...that's very PC of you. I said very clearly, for someone who doesn't have relationships with women, it's "questionable" to have substantiated opinions about them and their relationship "preferences" no pun intended.
And you still haven't answered my question 'Herbs...so whatever.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: That's like asking a White person who doesn't involve themselves with Black people and taking their opinions about what Black people "like" with anything more than a grain of salt.
And comparing drugs to domestic abuse is a weak argument.
Drugs, though not a disease is an addiction and there is a physiological component that is just different.
Domestic abuse involves physical and mental power and threat of further abuse to help perpetuate itself.
A specious argument.
Do better.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Mas90 substantiating his opinions on women "liking abuse" is like Pat Buchanan giving his theories on the needs of Black people.
Neither has the other groups interests at heart and the statements are inherently dismissive of the other. Though entitled to their opinions, they are still off-base and ridiculous.
And you still didn't answer the question and I'm coming to the conclusion that you are incapable.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Mind you...you have WOMEN here telling Mas90 he's a loon for saying it...but you conveniently omitted those facts too. Never let facts get in the way of your point 'Herbs. Keep up the good work.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Uhmm..being a homo doesn't entitle you to being a part of a different species. Maybe he based his opinion on the number of women he has befriended. Are you an ex-drug addict? If not, then it is "questionable" to have substantiated opinions about them. See how silly that sounds. A heterosexual w/no children can counsel people on how to raise a child even if they don't have one. WOMEN can say whatever THEY want to say, it doesn't mean that Mas has to share their opinion. At this point, I don't even know what your question is. I thought it was "whether our standard of 'sympathy' changes according to the type of crime committed." That was answered a couple of posts up. Beyond that, I don't know. I'm sure your arrogance is speaking but uhm..you are the OG who initially compared EL's case to Balfour and now choose to cry foul. You were told then that it was a bad analogy. now you wanna criticize me for expounding on your oringally 'bad' comparison. Ok ok. This is just attention for you. I get that. Hence, your ridiculous come backs.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: You don't read very well. My opinions about "drug addicts" didn't revolve around what they "think"...it's about how they act.
There's no threat of death hanging over someone's head if they don't pick up a crack pipe...unlike in an abusive relationship often times.
Seeing as my community service work has often involved drug addicts...you can insert your apology accordingly.
Let's just say I've worked with more addicts than women Mas90 has dated.
So your point is not only incorrect...it's unfounded.
Still haven't answered my question. You keep "responding" but you don't answer the question.
So to allege I want attention, but you keep coming back on your own...contradiction. I wrote the article...I have a "purpose" being here.
You on the other hand...
You don't like me...we get it. Rinse, repeat.
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: MoK, I guess its not funny to me and I take it very personal because I lost my mother to crack addiction and the humilation that my brothers and I went through was nothing nice. It was people like you that made us feel like it was our fault and we were always the butt of everybody's jokes. Yes, she made some very bad choices that impacted our lives tremendously but no matter what, she was still our mother!
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Ahhh..now we're into the nuances of what nuances are. Mas having platonic relationships w/women and seeing how they 'act' is no different than your community work when you only 'see' how they act..since their 'mind' is not in question. You are the arbiter of unfounded opinions and you have expressed them all here today..as silly as they have been. As I've stated maybe 4 or 5 times, I don't know what your question is. I don't need attention from a message board. However, you need attention from readers and of course El Debarge to remain relevant. More posts...more notches in the belt. Less posts..less notches. W/out a readership you delve into irrelevance. W/out readership, I continue. I'm rather sure that most people reading these silly exchanges between the two of us can see who continues to play the "you don't like me" card, see my responses to them, and sense that the problem is obviously w/you. Lil insecure about people not sharing your opinion aren't you. Here's a watermelon lollipop to go w/that pouting.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Ahh...real life examples now. Why not write an article about the "choices" Steph's mother made that led to her death. She was just a crackhead deserving of ridicule right? But aye, Wendy Williams' soul is prolly at ease too...even though she makes it her business to put people's personal business out on front street.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Since you want to "compare" Steph's mother to El DeBarge...let's be clear.
Was Steph's mother getting arrested seven times and acting buffoonish in the public space on the heels of a public career?
No...
Was she an overt domestic/child abuser? I don't get the sense she was.
Was she emailing people who found humor in her self-destruction right after getting out of jail?
No...
So in the final analysis...there is no comparison other than the addiction.
And "addiction" goes back to the question YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED.
And if you're handing me a watermelon lollipop..it means you had it first and willingly bought it.
No thanks.
Still haven't answered the question. You're so emotional and READ EVERYTHING I write. What a tremendous compliment.
I will thank you for that.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Listen up everybody. 'Herbs doesn't like or appreciate Mo'Kelly...just in case nobody had figured it out. He can't get enough of Mo'Kelly either. He will stay here all day long it seems.
Lighten up Jamal.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: "As I've stated maybe 4 or 5 times, I don't know what your question is. "
You're a damn lie...I've even copied and pasted it.
Whatever Jamal.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: HELLO JAMAL...HERE'S THE QUESTION AGAIN FOR YOU...a third time.
______________________
Name: MorrisOKelly Comment: So class, in summation. It's real damn simple. You use the "disease" excuse when it's convenient, not a rule of thumb. If someone's crimes are "tolerable" then they have a disease...
If someone's crimes are intolerable...then they don't deserve any respect. And in truth, I don't "disagree" with that...just acknowledge the double-standard.
Don't look at this emotionally, look at it purely in logic. If a crackhead murders someone, or someones...we don't hear the "disease" argument...especially if it involves someone we love or respect.
But as Mas90 CLEARLY POINTED OUT, if the crimes associated our tolerable (which is subjective) and CLEARLY, ABUSING WOMEN IS "ACCEPTABLE" to him, then the "victim" crackhead is worthy of sympathy and not to be ridiculed. We should not "kick him when he's down."
But you wouldn't say that for someone like Balfour. Putting him under the jail wouldn't be enough. Why...doesn't he have a disease "also?"
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Name:
Willie1986
Comment: Haven't and will not read all he comments in here but nice article MoK.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Willie where do you disappear to? You come in and disappear for like years at a time!
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: Yes MoK, my mother went from having a really good State job to getting fired for smoking crack in the ladies room. I will never forget how we went looking for her after she didn't come home for a few days and found her on her hands and knees looking through dirt for crack crumbs or when people would tell us our mother was giving a teenage drug dealer a blow job for $10 worth of crack and then laughing about it. Then my mother started getting arrested for prostitution, theft, you name it. It was traumatizing to have 5 teenagers bury their mother who left us nothing. God was just merciful and gave us a grandmother that was going blind to do the best she could to keep us out of foster care! I at one point despised drug addicts but my grandmother told me, the only time we should look down on someone is when we're picking them up!!!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Well when drug addicts email threatening to whoop my a$$...sorry, can't share that sentiment.
When drug addicts beat women for the sake of beating women...sorry, can't share that sentiment.
With all due respect to your mother who has passed, tell me this.
Would you honestly characterize her as a "victim?"
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: So what I'm getting from this is because my mother chose to be a crack addict, people had the right to ridicule her and us? Mo, we went round and round when you were dogging Whitney and Bobby Brown about their addiction. I guess if you really knew first hand about the addiction that is a disease, you would understand. El Debarge had a gift as did Whitney Houston but their disease got the best of them and as a result, they're living their own worst nightmare. Nothing funny about that at all especially when children are affected as well.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Others on this board have made the point that the "victims" are the family members. I sympathize with YOU. But in the final analysis, your mother (with all due respect) did that to you and your family.
The blame is not with people around you but your mother. She did that to your family.
And in the end, that's the discussion here.
There's nothing "funny" about murder either, but we make OJ jokes until the cows come home.
There's nothing "funny" about domestic abuse or child abuse, but we talked about Lionel Richie getting his a$$ whipped by his wife for years. We made jokes about Alec Baldwin screaming at his child on an answering machine tape even to this day.
I'd be willing to bet you are in some if not all of those groups.
This takes us back to my original question that most people here refuse to tackle about addiction and William Balfour. Would he be a sympathetic figure if found to be a drug addict?
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: MoK, its not about being a victim. I remember when I was real small seeing my mother start off with weed, then drinking, then lines and then crack. I remember my grandmother begging and pleading with her to get some help but she seriously believed she didn't have a problem. It was strange because neither of my grandparents drank or used drugs. Sometimes I think my grandmother's controlling ways may have caused my mother to get out of control but only God knows why she did what she did. It took YEARS to get over the anger and resentment of my mother. Finally, I realized no matter how much of a crackhead whore she was, she was my mother! I've made some very bad decisions and would blame my mother for my choices but as I get older, I clearly understand we do have choices but when your a teenager, who the hell knows or thinks about choices...
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Ah, but that's the difference Stephanie. A teenager is vastly different than a 47 year old man arrested for the 7th time. You don't see the difference in that?
Our judicial system does. Our treatment centers do. Even the social stigmas attached differ.
Your resentment of your mother in my estimation is both real and justified. You may understand now as an adult how our choices can turn our lives in a variety of directions. But when you're in your 40s...it's just different.
I don't think you can compare your mother to El DeBarge other than the idea of addiction. Other than that, there's not a lot of similarities.
El had ALREADY had 3 other family members locked up on drug charges, one die of IV drug use/AIDS.
To then become an addict AFTER that is a whole different ballgame. And I suspect someone would kick your own a$$ if you now became an addict after watching your mother and what she did to you.
And that is also a HUGE difference.
Yes, there are "choices" and there's also tremendous stupidity on top of those choices.
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Name:
Willie1986
Comment: Mok, I been busy. Did I tell you I joined the Air Force? It takes up alot of my time now.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: For El to become an addict presumably AFTER his older brothers and the death of one, or unwillingness to seek treatment after the death of his brother and multiple arrests of the older brothers is willful in nature.
He went into that situation both willingly and defiantly. His mother has been on the radio talking about how drugs ravaged her family.
Just imagine if ANOTHER DeBarge became addicted to drugs or was arrested for drug possession.
Tragic? Absolutely not. Not even CLOSE!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Honorable Willie...honorable. No, I had no idea. Be safe, check in when you can. Take some good pictures.
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Name:
Stephanie
Comment: MoK, like my grandmother always says, no matter what his situation or circumstance is, he's still a child of God and God loves him no matter what and who knows, maybe one day he could turn his life around. Nobody knows God's ultimate plan for his life but one thing for sure, God does allow U turns! I just wish my mother would have taken one but it wasn't the plan and I have to accept it. It was nice dialoging with you and have a good evening!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: You too Stephanie...you're welcome anytime, which goes without saying.
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Name:
Conrad
Comment: "YLawdY Comment: Who's Eddie Kane Jr?"
YLawdY, Eddie Kane, Jr. was a character in the movie "The Five Heartbeats." This is a movie that Robert Townsend produced and starred in. The movie is based on the early doo-wop group, The Dells. More specifically, Eddie Kane's character was the front man for the Five Heartbeats who got too big for his britches, starting taking drugs, missing rehearsals, and was fired from the group. In one scene after the Heartbeats had performed with a new front man, Eddie showed up in one of his old Heartbeats' customs which is really filthy consisting of a blue shirt and a silver vest, I believe. Of course he has been doing pretty bad and wants to get back into the group. He starts to sing one of their biggest hits some of the words to which are "nights like this, I wish, raindrops would fall." Of course, his lifestyle has wrecked his voice and body and he sounds like he is croaking. It is a sad and funny scene at the same time. I found the scene on YouTube. Go to www.youtube.com. When you get there, search The Five Heartbeats - Eddie's "Comback" and the video will pop up. I just did to make sure the clip is there. Notice Robert Townsend unable to stop laughing in the background. The movie was not bad and had a great soundtrack, sung by The Dells. Hope after you view the clip you will know who Eddie Kane, Jr. is. Happy viewing.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Okelly, JAMAL here. I was wondering what took you so long to say JAMAL. I remember the last time we had a cyberbout, I crushed you on reason then as well. It's ok. We've been here before. At some point we all meet our equal..maybe even our superior. You've met yours and (like Hillary/Bill) you have once again spun out of control. You will say anything just to win and never think what it says about you in the end. I understand, it's a personality complex. I know, I know...no you don't. Well, uhm...Bill doesn't believe he has one either. So be consistent, JAMAL is asking you to post both his first and last name. Hell, why not, it's all entertainment...definately part of your job. Come on, keep it going, throw the kitchen sink, o ye man of dignity and respect. *rolling a grape dutch*
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: BTE, MESSAGE TO READERS. BE careful when exchanging e-mails with online personalities, they may expose your personal information. *inhaling.....*
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Look, you pull out "watermelon lollipop," "Jamal" is definitely fair game.
I am being consistent.
And if you think you're my superior...then obviously you are WAY too invested and worried about one's perception of you.
Like I said "Jamal" lighten up.
I could've called you far worse than your birth name. But instead of writing something "several rungs" beneath my intellectual capacity, and I just settled for calling you by your birth name.
I didn't post your last name last time, so I am being consistent.
I love verbal repartee' but my superior you are not.
You can't even answer one simple question that I've posted and copy/pasted twice.
You have to do better than that to take the champ's title.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And lastly Jamal...you played yourself. Nobody knows it's your birth name until you let everyone else know and confirm it.
Playing yourself like that doesn't grant you the intellectual title either.
Do better. I believe in you. You can be anything you want when you put your mind to it.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And since I post with both my first and last name...stop pouting (to use your word).
So much anger...so much discontent. I'm enjoying this, you should too. Stop letting everybody see your weaknesses. This is text, stop being so transparent.
YOu don't have to concede anything, and I wouldn't expect you to. But I would expect you to do better than a "watermelon lollipop" remark.
That is "several rungs beneath your intellectual capacity."
Well, maybe only one rung, not several.
Be of good cheer 'herbs. You'll live to verbally fight again another day.
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Name:
foreverlarge
Comment: It's ironic that both El DeBarge and Barack Obama were born the same year to interracial couples. Granted we all have to overcome our own demons connected with disfunctional families and being the product of disfunctional interracial unions can make it worst sometimes. Barack overcame his childhood demons and made the right choices in life. Today at 47 he has transformed the world as the President elect. El never overcame his past demons and eventhough he found fame a lot earlier than Barack, at 47 he is down and out and spending the next to years of his life in jail. DeBarges were one of the most attractive and talented families in show business in the 80s yet they were also one of the most troubled. Despite being one of the most beautiful and talented men in show business El turned out to be a menace to society after repeated being forced by the courts to seek treatment. I am not a fan of sending drug addicts to Prison but they do more harm to themselves and others if allowed to roam free. He has not only let down his fans but his 10 children as well. I hope that he gets his self together but I guess on TIME WILL REVEAL. A truely beautiful and tragic genius.
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