Mon, Nov 23, 2009
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Name:
TGen
Comment: Wow, when you go after someone, you go after them HARD, lol. Yes, Kanye West seems to be way self-important, (ego out of this world), and you're probably right, he needs some kind of meds, esp after his mom's passing which seems to have exacerbated his issues (with the recent kerfuffles with the po-po's and all). But really, I think he's turned inside out, lol. Seems like he lacks the ability to keep stuff in like most people. I'm sure A LOT of people ("stars" if you will) think like him, want to cry and whine when they lose awards, think of themselves as the great leaders of their generations, etc. But Kanye doesn't just think it, he VERBALIZES it, which maybe makes him more socially awkward than "crazy." Just a thought...
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Name:
Penelope
Comment: Great article. I'm glad you resolved issues I have had about Brother West. He truly is a legend in his own mind.
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Name:
DCGG
Comment: I couldn't have said it better, I hope that egotistical summabytch reads this!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: TGen, thank you for the warm compliments. :) I know we've battled at times, but it's never personal.
As for Kanye...
I'm sure the loss of his Mom exacerbated whatever "issues" or feelings of inadequacy (my opinion) that existed, but I wouldn't dare put anything like that in the piece.
His ego is truly out of kilter. His perception of reality is exceptionally out of balance. Such extreme self-love can be found in people like Kanye and/or serial killers. The way people act it out varies.
But I wouldn't be surprised if he has more "incidents" in which lead to his arrest as he's seeming becoming less able to control his ego. In the beginning I thought it was an act.
No longer...
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Name:
DarrylJames
Comment: Mo--when you're right, you're right. And, as we've seen with the likes of Martin Lawrence, Brother West just may fall apart and show the world his azz. I hope he gets it sometime soon, because the world is too unkind when you go to pieces. And, BTW, thanks for not bringing the death of his mom into it, although it certainly is playing a huge part in his unraveling.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Yeah, there are lines that even I won't cross. I think the mom quotient should be understood...but at the same time this behavior was prevalent long before she left.
So it's not like we can chalk all of this to "acting up" or "acting out."
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Name:
DOne
Comment: I have a question. Can someone be a musical genius if they can't play or write music? Can Kane play or write music? I had this discussion with someone. My position was that at their best, rappers are great poets, but not musicians. Artistic genius, yes, but musical genius, no.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: DOne...I make that argument all the time and have written on it.
I do believe someone can be a "musical genius" and be musically illiterate. Without going too deep I know there are people who can "see" music and be quite creative in the creation of music but are musically illiterate.
But to your point, that's why I say in the piece..."musical genius…maybe. Superstar producer…absolutely."
I don't give him the musical genius tag...only the producer tag. I don't know of him being able to write or play an instrument and simply gave him the benefit of the doubt.
In terms of where I'm coming from...I at one time played ten different instruments and have a degree in music theory/history.
I wouldn't call him a "musician" but there's musical genius to be found in some things he does. Some.
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Name:
blackdragon
Comment: Nice article, man. You really tore into Kanye West. LOL.
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Name:
Willie1986
Comment: Love Kanye to death but he needs a reality check...Hope he or someone in his camp reads this.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: MOK, this is one of my very, most favorite-est MOKelly articles . . . . I have already sent it to some folks . . . . this is major serious way
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Name:
MzTee
Comment: Thank you MOK for so eloquently articulating my thoughts on the overrated Kanye West. Old boy has suffered from delusions of grandeur for some time. Not sure what it will take for him to plant his feet on terra firma, but I sincerely hope his comeuppance is soon.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: I wonder if self-aggrandizement is an indication of a mental problem of sorts. Is it that we don't like to see people prematurely congratulate themselves? It's not PC for sure. Maybe it's how we measure success. I don't believe that most of the aforementioned didn't "think" they were the best during that time. They just may have not verbalized it. I don't know how Kanye will be remembered and neither does he..and neither did Jordan but it doesn't rub me the wrong way to hear him talk about his belief that he's the shyt. Maybe I don't take him seriously enuff when he says certain things...like George Bush don't like black people. We all cheered..but it was a stupid statement to make. *shrugging*
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: 'Herbs...you bring up some fantastic points..credit where credit is due.
Most of us at the minimum have that internal 'edit' button. We may 'think' certain things but humility edits us accordingly.
But with Kanye not only does he not have an edit button, his original thoughts are just SO out there to begin with.
It seems to me this is on some level clinical because it's just so consistent and so ridiculous and he doesn't need the publicity so it serves no purpose.
That combined with the "incidents" with the paparazzi says to me he's a bit unbalanced. It would be interesting to see what happens if/when his career slips or slows.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Also...Kanye would be fine if he left it with "I'm the sh*t"...people say that all the time, Jordan included.
But when you haven't really "accomplished" anything presently that makes you an all-timer, yet are already comparing yourself to all-timers or %*$ert you'll finish amongst the all-timers...it's a bit much.
In the beginning I thought he was just saying stuff to rile people up. I think he's absolutely serious now.
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Name:
Calidee
Comment: Mo
Great article.
But it's not clear to me how much of his antics are actual signs of a problem and how much of it is an act.
How can you tell the difference?
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: I like Kanye for speaking hismind. DOesn't mean I agree with what he saids. I think Kanye is dealing with internal sexual orientation issues. Plus, I think he is alone and doesn't have a close "real friends" around him enough. My opinion. I hope he isn't heading for a Mariah Carey breakdown cause I'm sure he need a stray-jacket fro a few days.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: You're right...you can't. This is how I try to look at it. He as more publicity than he can even deal with and obviously has "issues" dealing with the increasing celebrity and the paparazzi that comes along with it.
He's on tour so he clearly doesn't need "press." So I'm not sure from a "marketing" standpoint what he gains by this consistently ridiculous behavior.
And even if it is an act...it tarnishes his stardom. Whether it's an act or not, he's still responsible for what comes out of his mouth. If he says it, act or not, he has to be ready for people to call him on it.
Me personally, I don't think you sell more CDs by comparing yourself to Jordan. It pysses people off more than anything.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Mas90...I wrote about that "Mariah Carey" breakdown that many artists go through. I call it the Superstar Curve. As long as they're making hits, people tolerate the aberrant behavior and the enablers around them continue to enable.
But fall off like Mariah did, Britney did, Mike Tyson did, D'Angelo did, Lauryn Hill did...
All of sudden they're crazy.
No they're not...they were crazy before, we just looked the other way.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: I thought of MOK's concept of "take your meds as prescribed" as an awsome trash talk response to Kanye's baseless trash talk . . . . . now, I'm feeling bad about whether Kanye has genuine illness issues and it makes me wonder about a legendary trash talker who was able to back up his talk: before Cassius Clay became Muhammad Ali [or even after?], did people think he was mentally ill for talking his talk?
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Harris...that's the thing. It's hard to cite Ali in the discussion of personal music accomplishment.
There is a definitive and exact yardstick in which to measure Ali's greatness. And, his trash talk was validated within weeks of him saying it. Predicting the round of the knockout and such.
And...he didn't start calling himself the greatest until he became Heavyweight champion of the world.
That's a benchmark.
Kanye's yet to hit any benchmarks of world greatness.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Maybe the hype surrounding Kanye is the perceived "freshness" he brought..not necessarily his talent. Granted, I do believe he's talented but when you think of who has made their mark during the decade, Kanye does top the list. Obviously looking at the cast of people w/in hip-hop, we can prolly see y since there isn't a whole lot to choose from. IMO, he's looking at the here and now based on his current success rather than years from now when who knows what may happen. I'm not a Kanye fan but I appreciate him not having to talk about bytches and ho's and guns and "jewelries," jail, etc and STILL be successful. It's a welcomed reprieve and IMO is a HUUUGE thing in a struggling genre. Maybe that's where he'll make his mark. Most people are turned off by arrogance. Depending on the level of it, I don't have a problem w/it....which is prolly why I'm a diddy fan..lol Hey maybe is like Donald Trump...totally in love w/himself.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Ok 'Herbs...let's take your argument one step further. If you stand on the premise that "given the cast of characters in hip-hop today, Kanye stands out" (paraphrasing) does that mean he really DOES stand out?
Parallel.
Given the cast of characters in the heavyweight boxing division does Vladimir Klitschko (sp) stand out?
Is he worthy of making that Ali/Jordan like comparison?
I say no...if ONLY because (especially in sports) the strength of your era greatly impacts how you're viewed historically.
Ernie Shavers who couldn't get a belt in the 70s would likely dominate today's heavyweights. And because of the era in which he fought...he's a highly regarded fighter.
Nobody is making Ali/Klitschco comparisons.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And to your Diddy/Donald point...their resumes are FAR more impressive and neither made similar announcements.
Diddy always bragged, but it wasn't to this extreme, it was the average hip-hop braggadocio.
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Name:
SweetieDarlin
Comment: Musb> I agree with you. BTW although everyone complains about Kanye trash talk sure keeps his name on everyone's lips which I think is really the point. Additionally I think he says things to challenge himself, if he says it's going to be great, then he's got to come hard to make it so, the quotes he gives are bound to be repeated and repeated, thus being his own P.R.---remember the adage all publicity is good publicity, soooo if you really want to shut him up, stop writing about what he said and what he did.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Sweetie...this is an artist that really doesn't "need" publicity. He's on the cover of hip-hop magazines, he's on tour, he has a CD that everyone knows about.
He can get "pub"...this I would argue turns people off.
His name may be everywhere but after awhile, people start rooting for you to fail and that doesn't translate well to concert and ticket sales.
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Name:
HarrisThomas
Comment: MOK, I agree around the edges with your response to my last observation but I want you to know that I wasn't mixing apples and oranges (music versus sports), I was relating to the concept of trash talking by anybody and I see that Donald Trump's name came into the mix with regard to trash talking . . . . he11, even dubya trash talks with no back up: is he illing? [LOL]
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: And no...I don't "want" him to shut up...he makes good material for me, good conversation for you (in regards to what I write.)
I would rather he stop with the ridiculous proclamations...and there's a difference. I seriously I doubt I'm helping Kanye sell any CDs. Kanye's doing more for me right now than I am him.
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Name:
Mas90
Comment: As far as the papo goes.... a camera in yo face at every single thing you do is annoying. Don't tell me because you are an entertainer it is acceptable because it is not. If you can't understand this then you haven't taken an in-depth look at being in the biz.
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Name:
SweetieDarlin
Comment: Mo, I guess the whole turns people off would be a thing if it actually happened, Kanye may even re-evaluate some of his actions, but as much as people claim they can't stand Kanye, they still buy his music, they still read about him, again I think this is all calculated, he may not need the pub but he wants it and the media is willing to give it to him. He IS just like Diddy, Donald Trump and all the other self promoters, people talk about their arrogance, how they can't stand them and blah, blah, blah yet they keep thriving, again if the issue is egomania the media is not helping because as you mentioned, Kanye and the others give good quotes AND they give good quotes to stay in the limelight, accomplishment is not enough. Anyway since Kanye is hip-hop, hasn't hip-hop always been about inflated proclamations I know people wnat everyone to be humble and gracious but as long as he isn't mentally/physically hurting anyone and is quite entertaining what is the BFD? His music is still good, it is at least what Hip-Hop used to be about, being experimental, taking chances, going against the grain. Perhaps the problems is I don't Kanye that serious, I think it's all an act and when I don't want to know what he says, I stop reading or listening to what Kanye said.
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Name:
musbdherbs
Comment: Not a boxing fan so can't really follow that point. But as it relates to hip-hop, Kanye mos def stands out..and IMO, in a gud way. I don't believe any living being is "unworthy" of comparing certain aspects of their life to another human being. There are aspects of Kanye's success than can parallel those like Jordan. It does not mean that it's a complete blueprint tho'. I more inclined to agree w/SD in that Kanye does this for publicity. The battle 'tween he and 50 was such a stunt and Kanye came out on top of that. Hell he's even joked about his perceived shallowness on camera. We would "like" to see an artist not do "extra" stuff when "we" think they have all the publicity they need. Arrogance/conceit/confidence is not for the faint at heart. We root for perceived humility and IMO people who will root for Kanye to fail...more than likely..weren't his greatest fan from the jump. He's in a genre whose foundation was built on bragging. IMO, he's just following suit. I was to a LARGE degree completely turned off by TI's "king of the south" proclamation when he first came out for many of the reasons discussed here. Now, I fycks w/him hard. NO HOMO!
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: In the end, history (there's that word again) history has shown that if he can remain musically relevant then this behavior will be deemed acceptable.
But if he falls off musically, fans will move on...they always do and the "stunts" simply do not mean anything.
So in the end it comes full circle...he still (like Jordan/Ali, whomever) will have to "perform"...and I don't mean concerts. He will still have to produce...and I don't mean records.
He will have to meet the standard of acceptance set forth by the music buying populace. If they deem him irrelevant (like a Rodney Jerkins or any other hot producer who finally runs his course) then it's over, period.
Yes, Kanye is also an artist as well as a producer...but if folks stop buying you, they stop buying you altogether.
His production and rapper success are inextricably linked.
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Name:
ami2l8
Comment: I remember hearing Kanye talk once on a show about “speaking his destiny into fruition.” Basically, if you speak it and believe it then it might come true. This thought process would be equivalent to the whole “secret” thing that was so popular. I personally know a lot of people that practice this very forward way of thinking and they certainly feel that if they talk about it then they have to be about it. So in a way it’s a form of making your dreams come true. And isn’t this what most rappers are known for? Talking about how great they are? The best part of marketing a product is to say how great it is regardless of what the haters say. Words have a way of sticking in your mind whether good or bad and I bet with his grandiose statements that he will garner brand new fans or new so called "haters" that listen to his music in the effort to prove him wrong. As far as his mom goes, he’s still grieving. I have personally been through those stages of going into denial, aggression, sadness and acceptance or something like that. Once you lose something – all of a sudden it’s more apparent that the world isn’t fair and you feel you have to stick up for yourself and fight for what is right. I read his blog and I think he’s just sticking up for himself and for others out there that are in this same position with the paparazzi(s). I personally feel with all this technology that a picture can certainly be taken from a distance and still be of quality without invading someone’s personal space.
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Name:
Conrad
Comment: Mo, Ali is the GREATEST athlete in the world, and I am emphatic about my opinion! I was around when he won the Gold Medal at the Olympics; when he threw same Gold Medal into the river in his hometown, after being in a redneck restaurant and some saltine crackers trying to goad him into a fight; when he started boxing professionally and knocking fools OUT; when he changed his name from Cassius Clay; when this government took away his belt (his very livelihood) because he would not go to Vietnam because of his principles ("no Vietnamese ever called me n.i.g.g.e.r."); when he took mad heat from white America about not only the name change, but refusing to go to 'Nam (and some Black folks, too); when his then wife miscarried their baby because of the pressure from this society 24/7, 365 days a year for many, many years; when he re-emerged as a pugalist and continued to knock fools OUT; when after all is said and done, if he isn't the best, he certainly is the strongest in terms of sticking to his beliefs and not letting anyone sway him. No other athlete in this country (maybe the world) lived under the kind of pressure Ali lived under all those years.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Conrad, I don't disagree with you. I never said Jordan was and am already familiar with each and every exploit of Clay's/Ali's.
I merely said that Jordan is in every discussion.
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Name:
MorrisOKelly
Comment: Ami...I have no problem "speaking truth to power." But that's not what this was. This is another in a long line of ridiculous and unfounded delusions of grandeur.
And regardless, you put it out there in the public space, the public space is well within its right to critique it accordingly.
And I've never been a fan of ANY of the hip-hop braggadocio, so I don't really play any favorites.
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